To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 2126 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.2

Task: CARD

[14][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[13][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[4][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[4][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report

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Task: ROM

[16][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

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Task: REPORT

[15][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
[13][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[11][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[8][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[7][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: Klingon Bird-of-Prey Mk. II
[7][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[5][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[4][REPORT] Interstellar Commonwealth Diplomatic Posture Report
[3][REPORT] Lecarre Fleet Strength
[2][REPORT] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[1][REPORT] Sotaw Diplomatic Posture Report
[1][REPORT] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[1][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[1][REPORT] Dylaarian Fleet Strength Report
[1][REPORT] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report
[1][REPORT] Status/Progress of Sydraxian Civil Strife
[1][REPORT] Klingon New Battleship Early Report
[1][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: Klingon Bird Of Prey Mk.2
[1][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
[1][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[1][REPORT] Cardassian Shipyards Report

Total No. of Voters: 20

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: Klingon Bird-of-Prey Mk. II
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.

It's not just us who needs these reports.

That reminds me, when the hell is the FDS going to get their own intel assets?

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife

Hopefully there won't be an issue adding up the Cardassian Shipyard Report above, as I put it under general reports instead of CARD.

Edit: per SWB's note below, decided to swap to the other.

As I suspected, there's a vote split on Cardassian Shipyard and Shipbuilding between the tasks. Standardize or die.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report

Shipyard Report has never been ordered. Shipbuilding we got last year. Tactics we've taken many times but has only been applied seriously once, in the aftermath of Lora. I don't expect another Lora this year.

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

I personally don't think the GBZ report is important, but whatever, it's not exactly going out of the top 5 now.

Klingon ships we aren't likely to confront in a way that their exact stats matter, as in combat. Sydraxian civil strife isn't actionable; the actions we can actually take would be pushing the Yrillians or Gretarians, which would be better served with a Yrillian Diplomatic Posture report. Remember, we can't actually take action with the Sydraxians until they decide that Celos no longer applies to them.

Winged One said:

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report

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But why? Why not take the report that we've never once taken instead of the one we took last year?

@AlphaDelta
Please move your [REPORT] Cardassian shipyard vote to [CARD]

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

But why? Why not take the report that we've never once taken instead of the one we took last year?

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Because I didn't remember that we hadn't taken the shipyard report before. It's changed now.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report

Knowing what they're building is less useful than knowing what they already have, and it looks like we have no idea what they have right now. Knowing what they're building right now is also less useful than knowing what they could build in the future.

[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War

Agree that keeping an eye on this is Important.

Void Stalker said:

Expected order of joining now:
Gaeni 2316.Q4
Caldonians and Qloathi 2317
Orions and Seyek 2318
Risa 2319

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can we only do 2 a year? and in think the regular ratifications can only begin to happen in 2318.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

But why? Why not take the report that we've never once taken instead of the one we took last year?

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Briefvoice said:

Because they don't care about Cardassian Shipyards, probably.

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I think I've found a more likely reason.

(Pick Two Cardassian Tactical Reports)
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Write in class
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

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It's not even an option. And there's no [ ] [CARD] [WRITE IN]

Vehrec said:

We have a bit of breathing space-I don't think we're going to have an immediate war, and if you all think we need another report on how divided the Yrillians are and how we can't count on them to form a united bloc for anyone, that's your prerogative. Hell, maybe everyone else will vote for that. But I can write you what I expect our results will be. "Despite significant gains in popular and organizational support, the Federation-friendly bloc of the Yrillian nation cannot be expected to sway their neutral or Cardassian leaning fellows to our side, and a war would likely trigger either a full civil war or low-level unrest as both sides attempt to supply aid without attacking each other at home."

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The last Yrillian Diplomatic Posture report was taken in 2308, when our relations with the Yrillians were a fine 45/100. I expect some major change has happened in the eight years since then, which represent half the quest. While we're had hints about Yrillian division and Cardassian influences, we have no idea how divided, what progress we've made, or how deep those influences lie. Even a report that tells us "they are now unlikely to side with the Cardassians in case of a war" would change the calculus immensely, as our estimates of Ashalla Pact strength have included a full Yrillian muster.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

I personally find the Klingon/Romulan "war" truly hilarious. Because clearly the point was to commit to widescale war as the Feds were distracted, but we've turned out to be far less distracted than either side anticipated. So it's like...

[Klingons] : punch Romulans in the side:
[Romulans] :kick Klingons in the shins:
[Big Sis Federation] "I can still see you back there you know."
[Romulans] "Does she have eyes in the back of her head now?" Suspiciously searches anatomy records of recent new Federation species

Vehrec said:

I think I've found a more likely reason.



It's not even an option. And there's no [ ] [CARD] [WRITE IN]

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Wrong.

OneirosTheWriter said:

No, must be an oversight - vote for it if you want.

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Vehrec said:

I think I've found a more likely reason.

It's not even an option. And there's no [ ] [CARD] [WRITE IN]

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Which is why I asked the QM.

pheonix89 said:

@OneirosTheWriter
Is the lack of a [CARD] Shipyard report option intentional?

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And the QM said it was his oversight.

OneirosTheWriter said:

No, must be an oversight - vote for it if you want.

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These Intel votes almost constantly demonstrate why more reports is so crucial, even to the tune of the 70pp we might pay for them in the coming years. I can see at least 4 reports I'd like to have in the ones I'm not voting for.

FeepingCreature said:

I personally find the Klingon/Romulan "war" truly hilarious. Because clearly the point was to commit to widescale war as the Feds were distracted, but we've turned out to be far less distracted than either side anticipated. So it's like...

[Klingons] : punch Romulans in the side:
[Romulans] :kick Klingons in the shins:
[Big Sis Federation] "I can still see you back there you know."
[Romulans] "Does she have eyes in the back of her head now?" Suspiciously searches anatomy records of recent new Federation species

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It is, but at the same time it's also deadly serious. It seems like every time we see a war from the outside it goes a lot like this. Both sides do a lot of probing attacks, reluctant to commit to a single decisive battle that might lose them the war in a day. But don't be fooled, eventually the day of that decisive battle will come.

It's been different with our wartime experience. In Gabriel, Ainsworth going all in to keep taking the battle to the Sydraxians happened relatively quickly (as these things go). Then again in the Arcadian War, the Federation committed hard to a series of strikes that brought the Arcadian Empire down quickly. First in Ixaria, then with Ka'Sharren intercepting the Imperial relief fleet, and finally with the battle of Gammon. And it all ties back to one thing, something Oneiros once identified as the Federation's big strength... our deep reserves.

The Federation can "take a punch" like no other power. A defeat that might 'lose the war' for anyone else is something we could absorb if necessary, and come back from. Which means we can afford to risk having those battles.

EDIT: Of course, it didn't hurt that both of those wars were against much smaller powers with much smaller fleets.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

Simon_Jester said:

So basically, you're saying we get a free report on that every year no matter what we vote on? Who told us that?

I mean sure, it's not like Linderley will fire all our spies watching the Klingons if we don't ask for a report on the war. But by the same token, presumably we always have spies all the time watching all our neighbors. Presumably we have spies who learn information about Cardassian shipyards regularly. That doesn't mean we'll get the kind of detailed information we need in order to make good decisions. Presumably we have spies in Yrillian space, but we've heard practically nothing about the diplomatic stance of the Yrillians in many years.

I really wish people would stop assuming we'll automatically get for free information of a usable quality if we decide it's not very important.

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I don't expect a full fledged report (or indeed anything if the situation doesn't change that drastically) but I expect that we would get some kind of information if there were any truly signifcant/massiv changes to the war and I don't see how endless reports of "they are still maneuvering against each other and conducting small raids" are very interesting or informative.

Briefvoice said:

The Federation can "take a punch" like no other power. A defeat that might 'lose the war' for anyone else is something we could absorb if necessary, and come back from. Which means we can afford to risk having those battles.

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We could risk those battles because both times we were up against far smaller and far less powerful enemies who indeed could not nearly as easily replace those losses or capitalise on a possible defeat as we could but if we ever fight a peer enemy we will likely resort to exactly the same tacticts.

Briefvoice said:

It is, but at the same time it's also deadly serious. It seems like every time we see a war from the outside it goes a lot like this. Both sides do a lot of probing attacks, reluctant to commit to a single decisive battle that might lose them the war in a day. But don't be fooled, eventually the day of that decisive battle will come.

It's been different with our wartime experience. In Gabriel, Ainsworth going all in to keep taking the battle to the Sydraxians happened relatively quickly (as these things go). Then again in the Arcadian War, the Federation committed hard to a series of strikes that brought the Arcadian Empire down quickly. First in Ixaria, then with Ka'Sharren intercepting the Imperial relief fleet, and finally with the battle of Gammon. And it all ties back to one thing, something Oneiros once identified as the Federation's big strength... our deep reserves.

The Federation can "take a punch" like no other power. A defeat that might 'lose the war' for anyone else is something we could absorb if necessary, and come back from. Which means we can afford to risk having those battles.

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It's somewhat interesting that the Federation has a different playbook (which would be scary as hell for our opponents), but at the same time we can't forget that we absolutely can lose a decisive battle that will set us back massively and while it might not be an utter defeat, it would probably cost us an unfavorable peace. Global strength is also not the same thing as local strength. Something to remember when the Cardassians come for us.

We should pay attention to the Klingon Romulan war just to see what new tactics and technologies are employed.

Don't want to become Sollies after all!

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

The last Yrillian Diplomatic Posture report was taken in 2308, when our relations with the Yrillians were a fine 45/100. I expect some major change has happened in the eight years since then, which represent half the quest. While we're had hints about Yrillian division and Cardassian influences, we have no idea how divided, what progress we've made, or how deep those influences lie. Even a report that tells us "they are now unlikely to side with the Cardassians in case of a war" would change the calculus immensely, as our estimates of Ashalla Pact strength have included a full Yrillian muster.

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Those are the 'absolute worst case estimates though, right? Which, presumably, assume an 'all in' from the Yrillians and that the scattered raids we were getting were probes from large factions instead of a few scattered rouge actors? Even in 2308, I would have ranked pretty low the chances of the Yrillians offering full military support to the Ashalla pact. They just aren't unified enough for that, being internally divided in opinion is kinda their hat. The proportions of them who would act for or against us or stand aside might have changed, but I don't think their overall hat of each ship making the choice for itself is going to go away just because 8 years and several diplo-pushes. I probably wouldn't have included them in Ashalla pact calculations before, and I wouldn't change that decision today. But I also have no doubt that some of them would join up with the Cardassians, because they don't make decisions as a whole block. That's their fundamental thing that I don't see having changed much, especially since some of them were willing to go all the way to GBZ to make a hit-and-run attack. Friends and enemies at the same time, but not frenemies.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:

Wrong.

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Yes but how do you expect people to have voted for a thing when it has literally never been on offer before? It is not the entire truth to say that we have never voted for this when the option to vote for it was never presented for voting on. You can't seriously claim that this is exactly going to alert someone who is reading the threadmarked post, and selecting what they think we need from the list that this option, which we have never had before, is suddenly available. Unless they are doing a very close reading of the thread, they will make the same mistake I did and assume that 'SWB must have meant this instead of that'. when they see only one option for shipbuilding in the offered reports. It's not exactly hard to see what the problem here is rooted in-some people might even be 'fixing' the plans of others to 'correct' that 'mistake'.

I'll make the change to my own plan, but I'm still not voting for the Yrillian update, as I've made my opinion on that situation abundantly clear. I'll consider dropping the early battleship report for a war report though.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Status of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report