To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Funny thing, or maybe sad would fit better - in two quarters this year we've gained 60+55=115pp, which is just short of the 125pp we got from the Licori crisis over the same two quarters last year. Well technically, 145pp including the net pp rewards/penalties during those quarters.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
We should really grab this one, because it's vital to know if we should keep pushing or hold off.
We should really grab this one, because it's vital to know if we should keep pushing or hold off.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
This is kinda what I'm going for with my "[x][REPORT] Status/Progress of Sydraxian Civil Strife" vote, copied from last year.
I do recall some discussion on whether it would be better to vote on this write-in or a standard Sydraxian Diplomatic Posture Report. Don't remember what came out of it, but the latter didn't win last year.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, I've got Intelligence stuff, general stuff, and stuff where I'm starting to feel frustrated with lbmaian stuff. Going to keep those separate.
INTELLIGENCE STUFF
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
I'm not sure Starfleet Intelligence is in a good position to measure the true strength of the Hishmeri. We've only encountered the leading edge of their migration wave, they don't have prior contacts in our region of space, and they're actively averse to contact and negotiation.
And I agree with others that we need information on what's going on in Sydraxian space.
I'm thinking in terms of trading the Commonwealth report for Cardassian shipbuilding information, if people persuade me. I can see it being desirable, because the Cardassians just built nine new berths. I for one am curious about what is in those berths. Again, my working hypothesis is "Jaldun refit," because seriously we've refitted just about every ship design we've got that predates 2300, so why can't the Cardassians do the same?
Also, I'd like a Lecarre fleet strength report, but I decided a Yrilian diplomatic posture report is more important. This is mainly because we have a pretty good idea of what the Lecarre are going to be doing for the next year: mobilizing their fleet to deal with Hishmeri incursions in and around their space. Their fleet strength is "probably a few more ships than they'll have by the end of this year."
INTELLIGENCE STUFF
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
I'm not sure Starfleet Intelligence is in a good position to measure the true strength of the Hishmeri. We've only encountered the leading edge of their migration wave, they don't have prior contacts in our region of space, and they're actively averse to contact and negotiation.
And I agree with others that we need information on what's going on in Sydraxian space.
I'm thinking in terms of trading the Commonwealth report for Cardassian shipbuilding information, if people persuade me. I can see it being desirable, because the Cardassians just built nine new berths. I for one am curious about what is in those berths. Again, my working hypothesis is "Jaldun refit," because seriously we've refitted just about every ship design we've got that predates 2300, so why can't the Cardassians do the same?
Also, I'd like a Lecarre fleet strength report, but I decided a Yrilian diplomatic posture report is more important. This is mainly because we have a pretty good idea of what the Lecarre are going to be doing for the next year: mobilizing their fleet to deal with Hishmeri incursions in and around their space. Their fleet strength is "probably a few more ships than they'll have by the end of this year."
We already know the status of the Licori Succession Crisis. It's over, Tartresis won.
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[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
Very important to determine what angle to take on that frontier.
Very important to determine what angle to take on that frontier.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Battleship Early Report
[X][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: Klingon Bird Of Prey Mk.2
[X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
I'm valuing updating our oldest intel ASAP, excluding a few things we apparently can't get through normal channels, new ship reports, and maybe something to help out in the GBZ.
I don't really value a Yrillian report because I strongly suspect that the answer will be 'still strongly divided, no central authority, negotiations must be carried out on a ship-by-ship basis'.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Battleship Early Report
[X][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: Klingon Bird Of Prey Mk.2
[X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
I'm valuing updating our oldest intel ASAP, excluding a few things we apparently can't get through normal channels, new ship reports, and maybe something to help out in the GBZ.
I don't really value a Yrillian report because I strongly suspect that the answer will be 'still strongly divided, no central authority, negotiations must be carried out on a ship-by-ship basis'.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
GENERAL STUFF
Haven't you ever been in a place where there was an extremely competent staffer or secretary or junior employee who was the glue that held everything together? Dizzy is that person, but with extreme issues about acting independently of authority figures.
The problems I see are:
1) We've got an alliterative Vulcan on our hands. This is probably very bad and likely to break the universe faster than Licori time machines.
2) 'Parsec' is a sol-centric unit of measure. Different planets with different orbital diameters would have different measures of parallax and probably even different angle measures. It's the equivalent of using 'miles' in an international body where the convention is 'kilometers' for the sake of clear communication. Even if the captain is using 'Vulcan parsecs' or something, there's still a problem.
Dizzinramira's admiral bonus would be "+3 research points, one time only, as your newly appointed admiral has panic attacks of a type unknown and unimagined to psychological science and spontaneously combusts."
Haven't you ever been in a place where there was an extremely competent staffer or secretary or junior employee who was the glue that held everything together? Dizzy is that person, but with extreme issues about acting independently of authority figures.
I can see it since 'parsec'...did you just pull a Star Wars? Except rather than as a unit of time, it's a unit of area/volume now?
The problems I see are:
1) We've got an alliterative Vulcan on our hands. This is probably very bad and likely to break the universe faster than Licori time machines.
2) 'Parsec' is a sol-centric unit of measure. Different planets with different orbital diameters would have different measures of parallax and probably even different angle measures. It's the equivalent of using 'miles' in an international body where the convention is 'kilometers' for the sake of clear communication. Even if the captain is using 'Vulcan parsecs' or something, there's still a problem.
Uh, we've court-martialed captains when ships were lost (which didn't come close to happening here, the ship is okay, she just has a big hole in the side). Or when the captain clearly made what is, objectively, a mistake resulting in a disaster . Which isn't the case here even if there WAS a problem with the shield generator.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
Yeah, I'll back Simon on this one.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipyard Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Hishmeri Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
Yeah, I'll back Simon on this one.
I am really not liking this "Hey, it's okay to ignore the Klingon-Romulan war for a year," sentiment that seems to be sweeping the thread. Sure things have been quiet for a while... but this really is a CONSTANT VIGILANCE situation. It's still more important than every other report combined.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
This seems like the kind of plan that someone would write years in advance without knowing the strategic context. It's a GOOD plan for its type- but I don't think it's the one we ought to use.
We've got a number of relatively urgent crises going on on our borders and this set of REPORT votes doesn't really address any of them. I get that we need to think about the Klingon ship designs, but do we really need Bird of Prey stats more than we need to know which side of a war with Cardassia the Yrillians are going to come in on, and what we could do to change that?
Headachy Grumpiness regarding @lbmaian .
To be clear, you just picked an objective criterion, yes. There are other objective criteria that we could have picked instead, some of which yield similar results (the Renaissance is a different ship from any of the Constitution iterations). Others yield different results (all four ships are part of the same design lineage, or NONE of the ships are part of the same design lineage).
Your choice of objective criteria no doubt seems reasonable to you, but it is not the only choice we could have made. Or that the Romulans could have made, who don't necessarily care about refittability of ships as much as we do given that they're alien ships that the Romulans don't own. The categories were made for man, not man for the categories.
(the first two sections of that post are relevant examples of my argument about categories)
Because I'm trying to tie the temporary loss of the Lor'Vela shipyard to the political chaos that occurred in the immediate aftermath of the Cartwright Conspiracy, and if Courageous launches in 2295Q1 that's already starting to wind down.
Look, did you just not read the part where I told you that Occam's Razor wasn't my top priority here? "The simplest timeline must be the correct one" isn't a good way to predict what happened in real history, and it's not a good way to write timelines for fictional settings. Sometimes complicated things happen. Sometimes complicated things are interesting to talk about. Abolishing them for the sake of making cleaner lines on a hypothetical build spreadsheet that doesn't exist and never will is pointless.
Please understand and respect that I may have harmless but different motives and priorities than you.
Are you advancing an objective argument? Or a subjective one. Because I've already got two subjective arguments going with you and they're too exhausting for me to want a third.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Dude, I already put the disclaimer I was being nitpicky on that feedback, I already clarified my position later on Constitution/Renaissance Romulan classification, and all this is so inconsequential, we're both completely wasting our time and words. I'll let you have the final word if it matters to you.
edit:
To be clear, I was talking about scheduling the Courageous launch in EOY 2293, right as the Khitomer shit happened, leading to a subsequent shutdown of Lor'Vela right afterwards, and no shuffling of builds between berths required.
edit2: merging posts
I know, I copied the wrong line - already fixed to "Sydraxian Civil Strife" >_<
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Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
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- Location
- Central Standard Time
E:
[X] Simon_Jester
/E
Eh. It said statistically insignificant, and shield burnthrough is an actual combat mechanic. Also, the ship wasn't lost, and it's the Courageous.
This seems interesting.
Eh.
I'm 90% sure that that tag is what passes as a joke from Linderly.
[X] Simon_Jester
/E
Ouch.
Well, if we commission a new Miracht, it won't have a suffix. Suffices are reserved for Enterprise.
Eh. It said statistically insignificant, and shield burnthrough is an actual combat mechanic. Also, the ship wasn't lost, and it's the Courageous.
BTW, what's the Yan-Ros naming convention?
This seems interesting.
Eh.
I'm 90% sure that that tag is what passes as a joke from Linderly.
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- Location
- somewhere
We'll get updates on it anyway, we just don't know how detailed, and it would be good to see what difference actually requesting the report really makes. The war can turn with a single decisive battle with little run-up, so it's not like yearly reports alone would be anywhere near fast enough to keep us up to date in any meaningful way.
Because they don't care about Cardassian Shipyards, probably.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Updated vote: replaced tactics with shipyard.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Shipyards Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Shipyards Report
[X][REPORT] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Ongoing Sydraxian Civil Strife
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If nothing else, the yearly report will tell us when and where this decisive battle happened. It will also make it much more likely that we actually know the real balance of power between the two sides given that both sides will probably try to conceal weakness from us.
Presumably because they're more interested in having a narrow tactical advantage over the Cardassians than they are in knowing what the Cardassians are doing with all those extra cruiser berths.
So I agree with AlphaDelta. I'm honestly more worried about the Cardassians hitting us with a nasty surprise from their eighteen cruiser berths than I am about us taking incrementally more damage to our ships because of the lack of a 5% combat bonus to put down Cardassian ships in 300 combat turns instead of 315 or something.
Suffice to say that it was my first exposure to the thread when I woke up in the morning, so the effect on my mental state may have been out of proportion to what you perceive as the importance of the debate.
I am pretty sure we/our intellegience section is keeping an eye on that even if don't take that action every turn...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
So basically, you're saying we get a free report on that every year no matter what we vote on? Who told us that?
I mean sure, it's not like Linderley will fire all our spies watching the Klingons if we don't ask for a report on the war. But by the same token, presumably we always have spies all the time watching all our neighbors. Presumably we have spies who learn information about Cardassian shipyards regularly. That doesn't mean we'll get the kind of detailed information we need in order to make good decisions. Presumably we have spies in Yrillian space, but we've heard practically nothing about the diplomatic stance of the Yrillians in many years.
I really wish people would stop assuming we'll automatically get for free information of a usable quality if we decide it's not very important.
I don't consider the Cardassian state of affairs likely to blow up soon-tensions with them are not noticeably higher than before. This is the plan of someone who has seen intel session after intel session come and go with the Cardassian tactics report getting picked without any significant skirmishing. You could say that they are just waiting for us to drop our guard, but that seems a bit silly. We've done them a favor by using our reports to get the short-term benefit over and over again. Getting these out of the way all at once on a seemingly quiet year will help us. I don't feel the need for immediate contact reports with our new neighbors, major or minor, even if the Septs sound like trouble.
(As an aside, why does everyone think a fleet-based power which we suspect drives its economy with raiding and slaves won't have a multiplier on the size of it's fleet? I don't think these guys are a typical small power simply because they lack planets, outposts, and starbases-all that construction and power goes back into their fleet instead.)
We have a bit of breathing space-I don't think we're going to have an immediate war, and if you all think we need another report on how divided the Yrillians are and how we can't count on them to form a united bloc for anyone, that's your prerogative. Hell, maybe everyone else will vote for that. But I can write you what I expect our results will be. "Despite significant gains in popular and organizational support, the Federation-friendly bloc of the Yrillian nation cannot be expected to sway their neutral or Cardassian leaning fellows to our side, and a war would likely trigger either a full civil war or low-level unrest as both sides attempt to supply aid without attacking each other at home."
You could say the same thing about a number of these, like the Sydraxian internal strife and the Hishimari Septs.
We took this report last year, and while there is definitely a point to it given the newly completed berths I would question it in the CARD slot.
Can someone with the vote tally program give an early tally? Forums tally doesn't do task votes.