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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Sirvk
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[X][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen
 
[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Sirvk
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[X][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen
 
I like this.

[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Sirvk
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[X][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen

What can we promote to VADM anyways, that we could put Chen in?
 
[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Sirvk
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[X][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I don't think her career will be hurt if it's delayed.
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Again, she's already 60. The majority of our (non-Vulcan) admirals retire in their 60s, most of the rest in their early 70s and people like Sulu and Uhura very much are the exception. If you don't think she's qualified, fine. If you prioritize something incompatible (someone else's career?) higher than her career, also fine. But saying that delaying (for a significant length of time) won't hurt her career is simply wrong. If she acts like most people do a delay of say 5 years means she'll probably retire after only a couple of years in a single VADM posting (possibly even before that), promoting her now probably means multiple VADM postings and/or a decent shot at a full Admiral posting, perhaps even CoSF.
 
Nix said:
Again, she's already 60. The majority of our (non-Vulcan) admirals retire in their 60s, most of the rest in their early 70s and people like Sulu and Uhura very much are the exception. If you don't think she's qualified, fine. If you prioritize something incompatible (someone else's career?) higher than her career, also fine. But saying that delaying (for a significant length of time) won't hurt her career is simply wrong. If she acts like most people do a delay of say 5 years means she'll probably retire after only a couple of years in a single VADM posting (possibly even before that), promoting her now probably means multiple VADM postings and/or a decent shot at a full Admiral posting, perhaps even CoSF.
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I don't think retirement has to do with age at only 60, but with how long is spent in one position and on career goals.
 
Briefvoice said:
Yes, but that's kind of the point. They're cheap and fast to build relatively so losing one-in-ten in a big battle isn't such a blow.
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I get that but such a "high" casualty strategy seems to go against the character of the Federation, at least in my opinion. I think the Federation would rather go for the ressource expensive, quality and "safer" option than the "cheap" but expendable path that Mirandas characterize in my eyes.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
e: One Rennie is overall more squishy than two Miri though.
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Oh I know it isn't the most optimal build in regards to ressources but I don't think that should be the only consideration.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I don't think retirement has to do with age at only 60, but with how long is spent in one position and on career goals.
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How do you explain Gellond Choss (who definitely had ambitions of being a Vice Admiral) retiring after only 4 years as director of SFFY, at 63, or Thana sh'Masharr (also VADM ambitions) indicating a desire to retire afterwards before even taking command of Starbase 3 (retirement at 61)? There isn't any tendency for younger retirees to have been in their last job for longer, if anything it's the opposite. If age was not an issue we would expect to see more people in their 70s and 80s.
 
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[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[X][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen
 
Eh... I wanted to put an alternative out there so there would at least be some argument, but on consideration I'm willing to consolidate around Nix's vote.

[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[X][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen

Erandil said:
I get that but such a "high" casualty strategy seems to go against the character of the Federation, at least in my opinion. I think the Federation would rather go for the ressource expensive, quality and "safer" option than the "cheap" but expendable path that Mirandas characterize in my eyes.
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And we do. Starfleet builds a lot of cruisers and battleships. But there's a place for smaller ships in any fleet combat as well.
 
[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[X][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen
 
[][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[][OPS] Vice Admiral Shey ch'Tharvasse
[][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura
[][SYO] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen

THE HIVE MIND HAS SPOKEN.

EDIT: New vote posted.
 
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You know if Chen retires on us, I'm okay with that. She's been helpful, very helpful, and we should acknowledge her for sure (graveyard promotion? I'm up for it), but I think our trying to plan out who will be the next COMSTARFLEET several terms in advance has probably reached a middle, if not an end. We've got a lot of new VA positions lately and will probably add at least a couple more. Most of those people will have time in rank by the time Sulu retires. Our choices are about to expand enormously.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I don't think retirement has to do with age at only 60, but with how long is spent in one position and on career goals.
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Here is every retirement I could find:
  • Thunn sa'Asharr - 2302.Q1 - Retirement Age: ???
  • T'Laur - 2302.Q3 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Donald Hamsfeld - 2303.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Yamada Keiko - 2304.Q2 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Sevok - 2306.Q4 - Retirement Age: 79
  • Turgak Vzorc - 2309.Q4 - Retirement Age: 67
  • Than sh'Masharr - 2309.Q4 - Retirement Age: 61
  • Glenda O'Keefe - 2309.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • T'Prau - 2310.Q4 - Retirement Age: 52
  • Vitalia Kahurangi - 2310.Q4 - Retirement Age: 71
  • Gellond Choss - 2310.Q4 - Retirement Age: 63
  • Volin - 2312.Q4 - Retirement Age: 92
  • Sanik - 2312.Q4 - Retirement Age: 85
  • Heidi Eriksson - 2313.Q2 - Retirement Age: 68
  • Arthur Moss - 2313.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Ikitha zh'Bessash - 2313.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Lofap Poll - 2313.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Park Seong-ho - 2314.Q2 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Seruk - 2314.Q3 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Valentina Sousa - 2315.Q4 - Retirement Age: 65
  • Rinias ch'Vohlet - 2315.Q4 - Retirement Age: 74
There are probably a couple I missed, Lachlan Ablett for example since I couldn't nail down his retirement date, but that should be almost everyone.

So of all the personnel we have retirement ages for they break down as follows:
50s: 1 (T'Prau)

60s: 5 (Than sh'Masharr, Gellond Choss, Valentina Sousa, Turgak Vzorc, Heidi Eriksson )

70s: 3 (Vitalia Kahurangi, Rinias ch'Vohlet, Sevok)

80s: 1 (Sanik)

90s: 1 (Volin)​
which puts 45.4% of retirees with known retirement ages in their sixties and 72.7% in their sixties/seventies. Mean retirement age is 70.6 and the Median is 68.

So retiring in their sixties is very much a trend for Starfleet officers.
 
UberJJK said:
So retiring in their sixties is very much a trend for Starfleet officers.
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You're missing my point.

Our officers would retire not because they're in their late 60s, but because they see they can't fulfill their career ambitions or because they did and feel finished. That this happens about 40 to 50 years after they sign up isn't really a surprise to me, but I don't see "being in their 60s" as the cause.

Especially for someone like Victoria Eaton, whose career is still on the rise.
 
UberJJK said:
Here is every retirement I could find:
  • Thunn sa'Asharr - 2302.Q1 - Retirement Age: ???
  • T'Laur - 2302.Q3 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Donald Hamsfeld - 2303.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Yamada Keiko - 2304.Q2 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Sevok - 2306.Q4 - Retirement Age: 79
  • Turgak Vzorc - 2309.Q4 - Retirement Age: 67
  • Than sh'Masharr - 2309.Q4 - Retirement Age: 61
  • Glenda O'Keefe - 2309.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • T'Prau - 2310.Q4 - Retirement Age: 52
  • Vitalia Kahurangi - 2310.Q4 - Retirement Age: 71
  • Gellond Choss - 2310.Q4 - Retirement Age: 63
  • Volin - 2312.Q4 - Retirement Age: 92
  • Sanik - 2312.Q4 - Retirement Age: 85
  • Heidi Eriksson - 2313.Q2 - Retirement Age: 68
  • Arthur Moss - 2313.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Ikitha zh'Bessash - 2313.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Lofap Poll - 2313.Q4 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Park Seong-ho - 2314.Q2 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Seruk - 2314.Q3 - Retirement Age: ???
  • Valentina Sousa - 2315.Q4 - Retirement Age: 65
  • Rinias ch'Vohlet - 2315.Q4 - Retirement Age: 74
There are probably a couple I missed, Lachlan Ablett for example since I couldn't nail down his retirement date, but that should be almost everyone.

So of all the personnel we have retirement ages for they break down as follows:
50s: 1 (T'Prau)

60s: 5 (Than sh'Masharr, Gellond Choss, Valentina Sousa, Turgak Vzorc, Heidi Eriksson )

70s: 3 (Vitalia Kahurangi, Rinias ch'Vohlet, Sevok)

80s: 1 (Sanik)

90s: 1 (Volin)​
which puts 45.4% of retirees with known retirement ages in their sixties and 72.7% in their sixties/seventies. Mean retirement age is 70.6 and the Median is 68.

So retiring in their sixties is very much a trend for Starfleet officers.
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You should exclude the Vulcans since their age is not directly equivalent, or at least also look at the stats with them excluded. All of the non-Vulcan's listed retired in their 60s and 70s (Sulu is obviously going to be an exception, Uhura probably as well).
 
If someone is interested enough to write omakes starring Eaton as loving her job and having many long term plans for her service in Starfleet, you can probably stave off her retirement as long as you want. If you don't care enough to do that, then why do you care if she retires?
 
Briefvoice said:
If someone is interested enough to write omakes starring Eaton as loving her job and having many long term plans for her service in Starfleet, you can probably stave off her retirement as long as you want. If you don't care enough to do that, then why do you care if she retires?
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Are you seriously saying that people need to be willing to write omake to be allowed to have an opinion on this? I personally would never write a (proper) omake for anything, simply because I don't care for them. (Joke omake can be amusing, and serious omake can sometimes stand on their own, but wouldn't derive any of their value to me from being an omake for anything. I would actually slightly prefer if canonizing omake was not a thing at all, but otherwise mostly don't care whether they are there or not.) Are you saying I don't care enough about the quest?
 
The real tradegy of this vote is Chen. Honestly, I want her as Admiral Ops over ch'Tarvasse, whom I wouldn't be too sad to see retire. And filling the only Admiral position with ch'Tarvasse means there's no way upwards if we wait a year and a half to move Chen. Which position becomes Adm, SYO? SDB? Neither is really a change for Chen. I'm not really feeling Tactical as full admiral. The other option is a sideways move into a Theatre command.

Maybe the shakeup doesn't have to be immediate. @OneirosTheWriter would you permit delayed promotions? Like, fill Tactical now, fill SDB now, Chen to Ops Q3, etc.

I'm not really feeling ch'Tarvasse as next Commander of Starfleet anyway. It seems clear to me that there is a generational gap in the thinking of the old officers like Sousa and Sulu and the new ones who came up under Kahurangi. Sulu recognizes something of this in his musings in the update. I want to move to the new generation sooner rather than later; next commander if possible. We'll have some choices from this generation who have time in rank for sure, including Chen, Eaton, and possibly Harriman.

Therefore:
[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Sirvk (in Q3 if permitted)

If we lose Chen's bonus? Oh well.
 
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Nix said:
Are you seriously saying that people need to be willing to write omake to be allowed to have an opinion on this? I personally would never write a (proper) omake for anything, simply because I don't care for them. (Joke omake can be amusing, and serious omake can sometimes stand on their own, but wouldn't derive any of their value to me from being an omake for anything. I would actually slightly prefer if canonizing omake was not a thing at all, but otherwise mostly don't care whether they are there or not.) Are you saying I don't care enough about the quest?
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Not at all. May I say for the record that I greatly appreciate the work you put in on the maps and the research plans. Especially the maps- We could probably stumble our way through the research plans without you, but the maps have really brought the quest to life and solidified things in a way that nothing else quite has. Thank you.

I posted right after you so it seemed like I was addressing it to you, but it was more a comment to thread at large and it kind of goes beyond omakes. OneirostheWriter doesn't write this quest in a vacuum. He reads the thread. He sees the characters we're interested in and talking about. If we're expressing a lot of interest in a character like Eaton, whether through omakes or simply commenting on game posts where she appears, then she probably won't retire too early. If people move on to the new shiny and aren't that interested in her, then he'll have her retire when it "makes sense".

Admittedly continually promoting her to new positions is one way for the thread to express interest in her (and I am now voting for that promotion). But it's far from the only way.
 
[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Sirvk (in Q3 if permitted)

This is an excellent compromise. Let Chen start the Ambassador and then move on to run Operations! Hell, she'll probably thank us for letting her start the next gen explorer before moving on. It's a real honor.
 
Briefvoice said:
[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Sirvk (in Q3 if permitted)

This is an excellent compromise. Let Chen start the Ambassador and then move on to run Operations! Hell, she'll probably thank us for letting her start the next gen explorer before moving on. It's a real honor.
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The other thing is, most of our double berths are in Sol anyway. This lets Oneiros duplicate Chen's bonus with the Heavy Industrial Park if he wants (and it would make some sense: Chen innovates, then they figure out how to do it as procedure).
 
Yay?

[X][TAC] Rear Admiral Pathe Lathriss
[X][SDB] Rear Admiral Victoria Eaton
[X][OPS] Vice Admiral Patricia Chen (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][COS] Vice Admiral Nyota Uhura (in Q3 if permitted)
[X][SYO] Rear Admiral Sirvk (in Q3 if permitted)
 
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