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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Iron Wolf said:
I think in general this thread gives way too much leeway to the Romulans, a government known for being underhanded, sneaky, and manipulative both internally and externally. I would encouage y'all to think very long-term when dealing with their actions but also with the Licori in particular. I remind you the dustup they are having with the Klingons is over who is going to take on the Federation later. They may have a non-aggression pact with us now but that may not be true in the future, as it's just words on paper and the Romulans will break with that if they think they can get the upper hand. We see this in canon with Balance of Terror re: the neutral zone, and again later on in TNG on a smaller scale in The Defector.

They are not our friends.

They are not a friendly government.

They will not be a friendly government in the future.

We could be at war with them within two decades depending on how the Klingon War shakes out.

If you want to debate the ethics of if it is a violation of the Prime Directive to interfere, I will agree on that. That is my major qualm with not going for lesser intervention options. But it is a mistake to frame this as "hey, it's okay if the Romulans get it?" Y'all would be losing your fucking minds if this was the Cardassians.
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Do you have a quote on the K-R war being over who gets to fight the Federation? Because I don't remember that. I thought it was lingering Klingon resentment over losing a colony to the Biophage plus territory/resources that was driving this fight.
 
Iron Wolf said:
They are not our friends.
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Agree.

Iron Wolf said:
They are not a friendly government.
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Partially agree.

Iron Wolf said:
They will not be a friendly government in the future.
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:Citation Needed:

Iron Wolf said:
We could be at war with them within two decades depending on how the Klingon War shakes out.
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Agree.

I just have a different take on how to treat them than you. Showing them the boundaries quite forcefully while ignoring our own values might be the more successful approach.
 
Nervos Belli said:
Do you have a quote on the K-R war being over who gets to fight the Federation? Because I don't remember that. I thought it was lingering Klingon resentment over losing a colony to the Biophage plus territory/resources that was driving this fight.
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It's in this Intelligence Report. I'm going to quote the whole thing, but look at the bit I bolded.

OneirosTheWriter said:
Reasons behind the march to war between the Klingon Empire and Romulan Star Empire

Well, the hounds of war may not be released just yet, but it is fair to say that the hand is on the release clip.

As always, reports on the internal views and functions of the Romulan Star Empire are among the most difficult to ascertain with any degree of reliability. Information from Klingon sources is more forthcoming.

At its core, it seems that what has really opened the door to a potential conflict between these powers is peace with the Federation. The Romulan Star Empire has a high level of confidence that the UFP will not interfere in a conflict between the RSE and KE. This is based on a thawing of relations at the Neutral Zone, cooperation at Athos V, continued Federation Diplomat Service efforts, and Romulan assessments of our strategic distractions from, in order, the Cardassians, Syndicate, and Sydraxians.

On the other side of the equation, almost two decades or more-or-less peaceful relations, and the aforementioned strategic distractions, combined with the Khitomer Accords, have convinced the Klingons that the Federation will not intervene against them. There seems little interest in attempting to gain Federation aid via the Khitomer Accords. Instead, both sides appear to be relishing the prospect of settling old grudges without the worry of third-party interference.

The list of grievances between the two foes are extensive, though punctuated by periods of pragmatic cooperation, such as when the Romulans began to trade for Klingon D7 battlecruisers. However, in many ways the Federation is intrinsically tied to this spike in tensions. Both sides are hoping to make serious gains against the other in order to consolidate Beta Quadrant power to confront the growing Alpha Quadrant power that is the Federation. With the last ten years seeing three, and soon to be four, new members added, and massive increases in fleet power, there is apparently a feeling on both sides that the other empire must be cannibalised in order to present a valid counterbalance to the growing Federation.
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Nervos Belli said:
Do you have a quote on the K-R war being over who gets to fight the Federation? Because I don't remember that. I thought it was lingering Klingon resentment over losing a colony to the Biophage plus territory/resources that was driving this fight.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
The list of grievances between the two foes are extensive, though punctuated by periods of pragmatic cooperation, such as when the Romulans began to trade for Klingon D7 battlecruisers. However, in many ways the Federation is intrinsically tied to this spike in tensions. Both sides are hoping to make serious gains against the other in order to consolidate Beta Quadrant power to confront the growing Alpha Quadrant power that is the Federation. With the last ten years seeing three, and soon to be four, new members added, and massive increases in fleet power, there is apparently a feeling on both sides that the other empire must be cannibalised in order to present a valid counterbalance to the growing Federation.
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I actually think though that the most likely outcome is they ruin each other and make no significant gains, but we'll see.

Based on that update though they are thinking of themselves as long-term opposition to us.

MTB said:
I just have a different take on how to treat them than you. Showing them the boundaries quite forcefully while ignoring our own values might be the more successful approach.
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Like I said, I think the debate is more about what the best way to approach this is, rather than thinking it'll be alright if the Romulans stroll on in anyways.

Edit: [><][LECARRE] Investigate @Briefvoice as a possible infiltrator :mad::p
 
[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
Briefvoice said:
So I am curious. Suppose instead of the rhetoric about "colonizers" and "self-determination, the Romulan vote had been phrased this way. Same mechanical effect; different phrasing. Would people be voting any differently, or is it the rhetoric that is primarily influencing?

[ ][ROM] Strongest push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] Strong push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] Modest push-back against Romulan interference.
[ ][ROM] No push-back against Romulan interference.
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Eh, I read it as
1. We will not stop pushing unless the RSE threatens to declare war.
2. We will not stop pushing until the Tartresis say 'dude... knock it off'
3. We will not stop pushing until we get a sternly worded letter from the Bene
4. We will not push at all
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

I don't think I have voted yet.
 
Mr Tebbs said:
Eh, I read it as
1. We will not stop pushing unless the RSE threatens to declare war.
2. We will not stop pushing until the Tartresis say 'dude... knock it off'
3. We will not stop pushing until we get a sternly worded letter from the Bene
4. We will not push at all
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I read it as:
1. Push because fuck the Romulans
2. Push because of internal Fed politics
3. Push a little because we still hope we can be friends with the Licori
4. Fuck it, no pushing at all
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

We fought and bled alongside the Ked Paddah, and I seem to recall their fleet took a lot more damage in that engagement than ours. There's nothing better for making friends than treating them like they already were all along. MTB convinced me in regards to the Romulan option. There's been more than enough cynical political moves taken in the last decade- let's let some idealism shine through, naive though it may be.
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

There is absolutely nothing stopping us from diplomaticing the shit out the the Licori (which we're going to have to do anyhow to ensure a lasting peace) after the war ends, no matter who ends up of the Throne.

Let us break out the free samples of Root Beer.
 
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[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
MTB said:
I don't perceive 'push-back' as neutral, and, to answer the original question no, I wouldn't have voted for another option.
Imo, this is not our 'claim', neither is it our 'private issue'. I do have a problem with aggressive moves versus a political entity we just signed a non-aggression treaty with when they are looking after their own interests in an area we didn't claim. We fought the war to end a threat of extermination, not to conquer new territory.
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Well, there is the impression of the Romulans basically pouncing on an opportunity the Federation bled to create, and the Roms aren't exactly the Fed's greatest fans...
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

Ought to push the Ked Paddah to affiliate level, though I doubt they'll become one now due to their super-prudent nature requiring them to think everything over thrice.

We've seen what a clusterfuck Licori society is. The noble houses are indeed like feudal nobles, exploiting and abusing their subjects without care. The Romulans will just encourage them to keep going like that; they enjoy slavery too after all. I dislike interfering in their politics beyond the Mentat issue, but you just got to show the Romulans when to stop.
 
[X][PRIS] Release unilaterally (-15pp from disgruntled Federation members, greatly improve relations with Tartresis, improved relations with Licori)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

It's not about the costs now; it's about the costs in the future.

If you want a democratic government in Licori space, then vote for a more active option. It is a lot easier to encourage democratic development when they are your friends and trading partners. Soft power.
 
They can have a despotic corporotheocracy based upon psychotic clown worship for all I care, so long as they stop letting mentats go wild. We're not here to spread democracy or pro-Fed sentiment or anything other than the continued lack of starbusters in territories near our own.
 
On a non-Rihannsu topic,

I'm actually kinda curious why this thread/quest doesn't have a discord chat or irc or something
 
AKuz said:
On a non-Rihannsu topic,

I'm actually kinda curious why this thread/quest doesn't have a discord chat or irc or something
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I got strong-armed into the SV discord for staff reasons, so you'll find me there in the #quests channel if you need :V

During my evenings/weekends anyway.

Edit: All this talk of pushing has me humming along to Salt 'n' Pepa....
 
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