Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
We expect to have new ones, soonish.
On other hand, not THAT soonish. I'm not sure we've got a finalized Kepler design.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
We expect to have new ones, soonish.
On other hand, not THAT soonish. I'm not sure we've got a finalized Kepler design.
I do have an Oberth planned for next year, actually. In one of the UP berths.
The earliest we can expect a Kepler prototype to complete is 2322 (buy research in 2317 or 2318, 2 year research, 3 year construction). I would not be opposed to one, maybe two new Oberths in that time, and I see that Briefvoice has one in his build list.
Kindly stop putting words in my mouth before I'd even have had an opportunity to say them. You, quite evidently, know nothing about me, and doing so does not make me inclined to continue to spend my time on you.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That... really shouldn't happen just because we leave the yard open for a year or two.
We could spend it on things like boosting Starfleet bureaucratic structures, or just do nothing with it and save it later.
Also, there is almost no imaginable situation where we have ships that can't operate for lack of techs, where those same ships aren't also crippled by a lack of enlisted and officers, too. Just having a mountain of techs doesn't help us much with any ship type besides Oberths.
Several of the Sydraxian factions either don't view Gretarian space as "their territory" or are actively hostile to the protection racket the Hierarchy has run.
The high cost in political will to starting one right now, given how thinly stretched our engineering ship assets are at the moment.
If nothing else, if our relations with the Yrillians were really high, it would be very unlikely for the Yrillians to unilaterally all side with the Cardassians (who are distant and rather nasty) against the Federation (their neighbors). This would reduce their potential threat.
Is there language in the Treaty of Celos that says the Gretarians AREN'T entitled to negotiate for themselves? As in, they can't even voluntarily leave their arrangement, they're just straight-up slaves treated as Ashalla Pact property in perpetuity?
Well, okay? Given reaction to Devas and Asuras, I honestly didn't realize anyone gave a crap whether the character lived or died, so I'm open to changing my mind if there's anyone who wants her to live.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Especially since we lost one to Dikhed Junior the crystal monster at the start of this war.
Let me rephrase, then.
Every opportunity we have to push Gretaria is going to look like this one; some weakness with the Sydraxians that we could potentially take advantage of to get an edge in. It is very unlikely that we ever face a Sydraxian government that voluntarily releases Gretaria and invites us in, only one of Akuz's factions had that as policy, and only indirectly. Therefore it seems to me that the opportunity to go into Gretaria without worry will never occur.
It's nothing to do with the Gretarians themselves and everything to do with the Sydraxains. If the Gretarians did come to us on their own, I would welcome it, but they have shown no indication that they would, and if you're making that assertion I'm going to have to ask for any corroborating evidence.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Are the Gretarians even covered under Celos? Did we actually promise not to engage in diplomatic approaches to them? I thought not. There is nothing stopping us from simply flying to the Gretarian home system and opening negotiations, unless the Sydraxians can physically prevent us from doing so.
Ironically, the Treaty of Celos might actually prevent the Sydraxians from negotiating with us to stop us from doing that...
Ironically, the Treaty of Celos might actually prevent the Sydraxians from negotiating with us to stop us from doing that...
I agree that the Gretarians aren't covered under Celos.
That is a point heavily in favor of a Gretarian push. The Gretarian right to self determination is something only they themselves can decide.
Negotiation with the Sydraxians risks a Celos breach in a way that a direct push does not.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Right. So we don't negotiate with the Sydraxians (or at least, don't do so in any way beyond what the FDS signs off on and undertakes themselves). We just... fly up to the Gretarians and talk to them. If they decide they like us better (say, because we're willing to promise to defend them against pirates for free instead of for expensiveness), then we go on from there.
[x] [COUNCIL] Plan Colony, UP, and Diplo
[X][FACTION] Approach the Developers - Crew recruitment and training is an issue not just for Starfleet, but for all Member World fleets. Propose founding a joint Federation Space Academy based on input from Starfleet and all Member World fleet organizations with the goal of unifying starship crew training standards across the Federation, allowing Starfleet Academy and similar member world institutions to focus solely on service-specific training. (Desired mechanical effect- Improve Crew income, especially officers.)
[X][FACTION] Approach the Developers - Crew recruitment and training is an issue not just for Starfleet, but for all Member World fleets. Propose founding a joint Federation Space Academy based on input from Starfleet and all Member World fleet organizations with the goal of unifying starship crew training standards across the Federation, allowing Starfleet Academy and similar member world institutions to focus solely on service-specific training. (Desired mechanical effect- Improve Crew income, especially officers.)
A thought unrelated to the current vote:
Should we consider releasing ships from the LBZ now that we have taken our military targets? Do we need to push the ships we're repairing back into the war zone?
We could really use Excelsiors in our garrisons again. The EC still have a use for science and presence and special forces, but ships like the UES Liberty and the USS Endurance could easily just be put back into regular duties once they're patched up.
Should we consider releasing ships from the LBZ now that we have taken our military targets? Do we need to push the ships we're repairing back into the war zone?
We could really use Excelsiors in our garrisons again. The EC still have a use for science and presence and special forces, but ships like the UES Liberty and the USS Endurance could easily just be put back into regular duties once they're patched up.
So last night on the boundary between wake and sleep, I had an idea about the developments involving "a canon race" that Oneiros was hinting at.
Picture this:
Five Romulan cruisers decloak in Morshadd orbit and open fire on its starbase, doing devastating damage before it can get its shields up. They then proceed to destroy it, plus any frigates in orbit, announcing that they are "joining the war" as a co-belligerent. With the day they have conquered and held the capital of the Arcadian Empire... and it quickly becomes apparent they have no intention of giving it up, ever. The Licori and their mentats are to be conscripted as vassals of the Romulan Star Empire to provide support and resources during their war with the Klingons.
I know it would be a gamble to risk ships that way with their war with the Klingons about to kick off, but it's the sort of bold move that I could see them making. With the Federation having done the hard work of destroying all the Arcadian Heavy Metal, they take take the Arcadian homeworld with a relatively small sacrifice. Then they immediately turn it into one large resource colony and munitions factory. With orbital supremacy the Romulans can easily force the Licori into submission by glassing a few cities as examples. (Unlike the Federation, the Romulans wouldn't even hesitate.)
The Federation, having signed a non-aggression pact and having gone to war with the Licori, is diplomatically checkmated and helpless to stop this.
Picture this:
Five Romulan cruisers decloak in Morshadd orbit and open fire on its starbase, doing devastating damage before it can get its shields up. They then proceed to destroy it, plus any frigates in orbit, announcing that they are "joining the war" as a co-belligerent. With the day they have conquered and held the capital of the Arcadian Empire... and it quickly becomes apparent they have no intention of giving it up, ever. The Licori and their mentats are to be conscripted as vassals of the Romulan Star Empire to provide support and resources during their war with the Klingons.
I know it would be a gamble to risk ships that way with their war with the Klingons about to kick off, but it's the sort of bold move that I could see them making. With the Federation having done the hard work of destroying all the Arcadian Heavy Metal, they take take the Arcadian homeworld with a relatively small sacrifice. Then they immediately turn it into one large resource colony and munitions factory. With orbital supremacy the Romulans can easily force the Licori into submission by glassing a few cities as examples. (Unlike the Federation, the Romulans wouldn't even hesitate.)
The Federation, having signed a non-aggression pact and having gone to war with the Licori, is diplomatically checkmated and helpless to stop this.
Chatsworth was my favorite character aside from Lieutenant Vaelerin, who died in a heroic sacrifice [ o7 ] so u gotta keep this one alive or I'm 0/2
plz I need Adele "Uhura but she aims like McCree" Chatsworth
she is, as the kids say, a Lit BAE, fam
That's brazen enough that even the Council would call it out. They can choose to break a non-aggression pact. It would be hard-fought, but I would push for war with the Romulan Star Empire if that happened.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
We should wait around a few more weeks and try to get negotiations in progress or a surrender before we pull out. Another quarter now should help preventing trouble later. We may want to consolidate fleets a bit now that we have a lot of ships in need of repair.
I'm not saying pull out entirely. Maintain our current task forces and shuffle ships around so that we have three strong forces and adequate patrollers still. Maybe even increase TF4.
But the question of if we need the ships under repair for the next 2-4 months remains. I don't see a particularly good reason to return all of those ships to LBZ duty.
Two, actually. One is egalitarian and democratic, so they'd have pretty big incentive to be friendly to both us and the Gretarians (even if that doesn't lead to Gretarian independence, at that point it's not like we'd mind), and unfriendly to Cardassia, even if their description doesn't state anything outright. The second is isolationist, including independence from Cardassia and for Gretaria. Add in a couple years or decades, and sooner or later it'd be pretty difficult not to get any opportunity to work our diplomagic; In the meantime they shouldn't be a problem either way.
Between themselves, the two hold two thirds of the potential ideals that could sway the kingmaking soldier/police faction, and the isolationists are described as credibly being able to overthrow the red/blue camps by themselves, even if they don't make some kind of coalition with the democrats, and even without counting anything we or the FDS can pull to covertly assist, however much or little that may be.
And if you don't believe me, then please at least believe Akuz herself, who'd be the authority on this topic second only to Oneiros himself, and who outright stated that things are looking pretty good for us there.
And we haven't even had the opportunity to see how the situation shakes out. Could be that they'll be at it for the next few decades, could be the reds retake power within the year, could be that one of the two factions preferrable to us does or an alliance of them. We don't know. But we never will find out what could have been if we inadvertently give the reds the ammunition they need to shoot down their opponents.
If however, like you predict, this continues to go on for the next few years and we face the same choice a few years from now, then we will have gained a lot of insight into the situation from sigint as well as our new contacts. From this we really should be able to tell wether or not a decision is anywhere within sight at that point, and if yes what that situation will be; We can still decide they're not getting anywhere and simply unilaterally affiliate Gretaria then.
Yet again. Since Lora the Sydraxians, militarily, are broken without hope of recovering for years. Now, politically they are equally broken, and even best-case for them and worst for us, their division isn't simply going away within the next few years. Any opportunity we have to take the Gretarians right now, we're going to have much the same if we just wait a few years.
I will cite the example of the Cardassians, who recovered from a very tumultuous situation in 1 year. I will also cite the example of the Orion, who started and resolved a civil war in the course of 5 years in a far more tense situation, one that tore at the very underpinnings of their society and culture. The speed at which these things resolve is measured in single digit Snakepit sessions. Decades is not realistic. More than two years is questionable. Less than one year would be in line with precedent.
I absolutely do not predict that this turmoil will continue. I predict that today is the only opportunity that will present itself in this current crisis, and that we will have to trigger another such crisis to get another opportunity, like say, starting or being victims of a war with Cardassia that the Sydraxian government does not want a part of. Which would also have to be perfectly timed with our Snakepit when it does happen.
My point is that every such opportunity will be in a crisis, and the exact same trepidation over whether we should do anything or wait and see will repeat itself. You will not have the opportunity to slowly gather information, it is now or forget about it until next time.
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I don't care that much about the Gretarians, but there's something I would like to point out about your "egalitarian and democratic" faction. The current vassalage of the Gretarians is being aided and abetted by the Yrillians, who are more egalitarian and democratic than the Federation.* Sometimes all democracy means is that you all vote together to screw over Johnny Foreigner.
*I love that for once we have an alien race where we can't blame the bad things they did on an autocratic government. Yrillians as a whole are complicit as hell.
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Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Fair point.
@Leila Hann @Goat @Gingganz
I have edited Plan infra to push the Yrillians instead of the Ashidi. Since that caused the vote tally to treat Plan infra (Yrillians) as a separate plan from Plan infra (Ashidi), rather than carrying over the votes, I have also renamed my plan to Plan Infra 2.0
I feel like I fucked up somewhere in this process.
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- Location
- Austin, TX
[]Plan infra
[] [FACTION] Approach the development faction about putting together a general recovery program for the aftereffects of the Licori war. Some of our economies will suffer from war mobiliziation, our allies the Ked Paddah and Gaeni have suffered even more greatly economically, and the Licori themselves will need help on both economic and sophontarian grounds. Regardless of the details of the eventual peace deal we will need to be ready for action across the board.
I was extremely tempted by Plan Colony, UP, and Diplo, but the critical infrastructure swayed me. Also, I hope we never muster the votes for the Heavy Industrial Park; I took a look at the ships per pp a while ago, at one quarter per year saved, and it was worse than extra berth costs, even if built in the Sol system. Now, reduced to one month per year? Yikes.
Edit: Switched out in later post.
[] [FACTION] Approach the development faction about putting together a general recovery program for the aftereffects of the Licori war. Some of our economies will suffer from war mobiliziation, our allies the Ked Paddah and Gaeni have suffered even more greatly economically, and the Licori themselves will need help on both economic and sophontarian grounds. Regardless of the details of the eventual peace deal we will need to be ready for action across the board.
I was extremely tempted by Plan Colony, UP, and Diplo, but the critical infrastructure swayed me. Also, I hope we never muster the votes for the Heavy Industrial Park; I took a look at the ships per pp a while ago, at one quarter per year saved, and it was worse than extra berth costs, even if built in the Sol system. Now, reduced to one month per year? Yikes.
Edit: Switched out in later post.
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- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
But what is wrong with Oberths? I mean, I would think that they would do well as an interior force to respond to any events that the rest of the fleet is busy dealing with trouble abroad. Actually how many Oberths do we actually have as part of Starfleet anyways?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
A lot of those ships won't be back into service for six months or more, so it's kind of a moot point. Something regarding the war situation will change and we'll have to make new decisions reflecting new realities.
Endurance won't be out of the shop for a looong time, if ever.
I think it would be premature to send any of our remaining ships home until we've got a surrender or acceptable peace agreement from Morshadd, honestly. Right now the Licori are massively weakened and probably can't hurt us too badly, but they still have assets and could decide to continue the war or to spend a few months throwing together a last-ditch superweapon if they think our fleets have stopped paying attention.
Okay. Since someone cares.
Retconning my arbitrary declaration of her getting killed off randomly. I put Endurance through the literary meatgrinder once, and this time the losses actually weren't as bad as at Deva IX, although I'm pretty sure the ship's had over a 100% casualty rate over the past couple of years if you include crew wounded and returned to duty.