I'm going to use some made up numbers to illustrate my point. THESE ARE ONLY JUST ILLUSTRATIONS PLEASE DO NOT ROAST ME ALIVE.

[holds up pleading hands]

Anyway.

I'd rather have a field-tested, 80% reliable system that only works WITH the flagship...

Than have a field-tested 30% reliable system that works WITHOUT the flagship, and hope that the reliability of the system will rise to 80% with the flagship but not have field-testing of that assumption. At least if you want to use the new key asset to its fullest potential.

It's very hard to successfully integrate a key asset into a plan that was originally designed on the assumption that the asset wasn't there, without changing the parts of the plan that make it "would work without the key asset," and without field testing.

Of course, in a real set of war games the most likely solution would be to "do both;" the umpires would schedule four or five different 'games' over a period of about two weeks. Each one would operate under different rules and assumptions. And one or two of those 'games' would start with "the Thirishar is in the hospital and we haven't had time to rush another explorer to the scene, you'll have to stop the 'mentat' without explorer support."



EDIT: As an example, when tanks were first introduced to the British Army in World War One, they had little or no idea what to do with them. At the Battle of the Somme, tanks were thrown into a few sectors of the battle, but the overall plan was set up as though the tanks didn't exist. Consequently, the tanks didn't live up to their potential. They didn't have the support they needed to be maximally effective, because the rest of the army was off doing its own thing.

It wasn't until much later after a lot of trial and error that people figured out that yes, tanks were hella effective, but only if they cooperated with other forces in certain ways. This was tested successfully at Cambrai. Even then, the tanks STILL failed to live up to their potential because the British cavalry commander threw a hissy fit and refused to cooperate with the tank attack, behaving exactly as he would have done if the tanks weren't there.

...

Although if you want really good combined arms look at the Canadians. I did a paper on them in college, and let's just say that one of the journal articles I read, titled "Not Glamorous, but Effective: the Canadian Corps in World War One" captured their quiet maple-flavored badassery rather well. :D
 
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You war game to test your capabilities. You bring everything to the table and see how it interacts. We'll still likely learn how the patrol force does one way or another, as I doubt the Excelsior will intercept both Oberths unless they allow it to.

Edit: And if they do allow the Thirishar to intercept them both it had better watch out.
 
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Ehhhh, I'm sold, I guess

[X] [WG] A Fleet "Battle". The Thirishar, Gale, Harmony, Astute, and Assist vs the T'Mir and runabouts to simulate civilian traffic. The Svai and Calypso are available as a reserve. The objective is to prevent the "mentat" on the T'Mir from penetrating the patrol area and destructively completing their thesis, which would result in the annihilation of Betazed. A second Oberth [Torbriel] is secretly participating as a decoy. [Please caucus this vote with the similar plan that does not use Thirishar, if it does not win] Cost: 6pp.
 
Your arguments have convinced me.

[X] [WG] A Fleet "Battle". The Thirishar, Gale, Harmony, Astute, and Assist vs the T'Mir and runabouts to simulate civilian traffic. The Svai and Calypso are available as a reserve. The objective is to prevent the "mentat" on the T'Mir from penetrating the patrol area and destructively completing their thesis, which would result in the annihilation of Betazed. A second Oberth [Torbriel] is secretly participating as a decoy. [Please caucus this vote with the similar plan that does not use Thirishar, if it does not win] Cost: 6pp.
 
I think I proxy voted for someone earlier who is voting for the fleet battle. Eh.

[X] [WG] A Fleet "Battle". The Thirishar, Gale, Harmony, Astute, and Assist vs the T'Mir and runabouts to simulate civilian traffic. The Svai and Calypso are available as a reserve. The objective is to prevent the "mentat" on the T'Mir from penetrating the patrol area and destructively completing their thesis, which would result in the annihilation of Betazed. A second Oberth [Torbriel] is secretly participating as a decoy. [Please caucus this vote with the similar plan that does not use Thirishar, if it does not win] Cost: 6pp.
 
[X] [WG] A Fleet "Battle". The Thirishar, Gale, Harmony, Astute, and Assist vs the T'Mir and runabouts to simulate civilian traffic. The Svai and Calypso are available as a reserve. The objective is to prevent the "mentat" on the T'Mir from penetrating the patrol area and destructively completing their thesis, which would result in the annihilation of Betazed. A second Oberth [Torbriel] is secretly participating as a decoy. [Please caucus this vote with the similar plan that does not use Thirishar, if it does not win] Cost: 6pp.
 
@OneirosTheWriter, can we get an opinion on the legality of the vote:

[] [WG] A Fleet "Battle". The Thirishar, Gale, Harmony, Astute, and Assist vs the T'Mir and runabouts to simulate civilian traffic. The Svai and Calypso are available as a reserve. The objective is to prevent the "mentat" on the T'Mir from penetrating the patrol area and destructively completing their thesis, which would result in the annihilation of Betazed. A second Oberth [Torbriel] is secretly participating as a decoy. [Please caucus this vote with the similar plan that does not use Thirishar, if it does not win] Cost: 6pp.

It seems like a reasonable thing for us to want to do from a narrative point of view, but as written it isn't a test of the combat engine- more like a test of the evasion/detection rules. Is this acceptable? If not, a number of us will probably want to change our votes to something that is actually allowed.
 
So, I was doing some thinking and I was wondering how much of Starfleet's infrastructure is actually in San Francisco and the surrounding area.

Starfleet Academy alone graduates probably tens of thousands of people each year and has the attendance and support staff to match. And Stafleet command probably eats up enough space on top of that that Starfleet is likely San Fransisco's primary and perhaps only economic engine all on it's own with everything else supporting that in some way.

Then there are things like Starfleet Medical and Tactical and Intelligence and the Corps of Engineers and all the rest of the major Starfleet divisions. Think of the Pentagon and how many Pentagon's it would take to run an organization that operates over hundreds of inhabited worlds and thousands upon thousands of systems instead or some piddly little single planet nation of 300 million.

I wonder if Starfleet's presence in San Fransisco was once the totality of it's offices when it was a half dozen ships Derping around with sticks in Archer's early days. But as it expanded only the core command functions and the Academy itself are in San Fransisco; those two institutions eating up all the available space.

So then whenever a sub-fraction of Starfleet got large enough to need its own offices (Rear Admiral Grade command and up?) They moved into a nearby Pacific city in some spot probably rendered vacant by the detonation of a nuclear weapon a century or two ago.

So then, The Academy, HQ, and Operations are located in San Fransisco and say Starfleet Medical and Personnel, are in LA and Logistics, and Engineering are located in Seattle and then Intelligence and Tactical in Vancouver or something.

And because of transporters for the higher priority peeps and high speed shuttle mass transit for lower priority no office is really more than about ten fifteen minutes max away from the others.

This leaves room for more expansion and not totally shitting on the people of San Fransisco by trapping then in a city sized Pentagon complex....

Though Actually, the entire pacific Coast might be one loosely extended megalopolis (there are indications that this is the case on the east coast)

And there will be stuff in space. That's canon too...

Hmm.... might make reference to this in omake I am planning.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if the entire San Francisco Bay Area is littered with SF complexes, from Morgan Hill to Sonoma.
 
Hm. As my info states I live in the Washington DC area. So I live pretty close to an area that is a major central nexus for complex government functions; on the one hand it handles a smaller area, on the other hand it also controls a lot of ground forces and things that Starfleet, so far as we can tell, does not.

I'd definitely bet on most of Starfleet's non-critical offices being "outsourced" either to other parts of the Bay Area or to places even farther afield. If Earth Spacedock is as stupidly huge as it's portrayed in The Search for Spock, with a cavernous main hanger big enough to make an Excelsior look small, there's room for one heck of a lot of office space down there alone.
 
Well, the Academy and SFC are apparently taking up the space that's currently occupied by the Army Corps of Engineers.
 
*Rereads own post*

...I would once again like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that I am in no way suggesting this idea so that I can have omakes with Alexandria Kuznetsova in the same city that I am currently living in and am familiar with. NO WAY. NO HOW. Such accusations are slanderous libel. Why would I ever want to do that. It is silly. Very silly reasoning. How dare u. > : P
 
Nobody said that. You did. :V

How dare u.

That accusation is as spurious as it is... *rapidly and quietly flips through dog-eared Rihannsu/English dictionary/thesaurus* ...bedraggled.

I assure you that I have never had such intentions as to put Alexandria Kuznetsova in terrain and weather that I can describe with a look out of my window.

This has never been the case. If headcanon lorecrafting and personal intuition have happened to overlap it is in a manner that was entirely and purely coincidental.

I assure you.

I ASSURE U.
 
*Rereads own post*

...I would once again like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that I am in no way suggesting this idea so that I can have omakes with Alexandria Kuznetsova in the same city that I am currently living in and am familiar with. NO WAY. NO HOW. Such accusations are slanderous libel. Why would I ever want to do that. It is silly. Very silly reasoning. How dare u. > : P

She's wherever Rear Admiral Biophage assigns her.
 
How dare u.

That accusation is as spurious as it is... *rapidly and quietly flips through dog-eared Rihannsu/English dictionary/thesaurus* ...bedraggled.

I assure you that I have never had such intentions as to put Alexandria Kuznetsova in terrain and weather that I can describe with a look out of my window.

This has never been the case. If headcanon lorecrafting and personal intuition have happened to overlap it is in a manner that was entirely and purely coincidental.

I assure you.

I ASSURE U.
Nothing to do with the large supply of delicious food-things in the area for her to illustrate her inspirations with either, of course.
 
@OneirosTheWriter, can we get an opinion on the legality of the vote:



It seems like a reasonable thing for us to want to do from a narrative point of view, but as written it isn't a test of the combat engine- more like a test of the evasion/detection rules. Is this acceptable? If not, a number of us will probably want to change our votes to something that is actually allowed.

I'd allow it for this.
 
Nothing to do with the large supply of delicious food-things in the area for her to illustrate her inspirations with either, of course.

No, not at all. Why I bet she'd have no use for not even one of the millions of Sushi shops that infest this city. (Though, yes, there is a wide variety of excellent restaurants with food stuffs from peoples and places across earth... all of which combined are probably still outnumbered by the number of Sushi places; much as regular businesses are seemingly equaled by the number of Grey Market Weederies that also infest this urban environment)
 
How dare u.

That accusation is as spurious as it is... *rapidly and quietly flips through dog-eared Rihannsu/English dictionary/thesaurus* ...bedraggled.

I assure you that I have never had such intentions as to put Alexandria Kuznetsova in terrain and weather that I can describe with a look out of my window.

This has never been the case. If headcanon lorecrafting and personal intuition have happened to overlap it is in a manner that was entirely and purely coincidental.

I assure you.

I ASSURE U.

I find this to be of great interest and would like to subscribe to your newspantsletter.
 
I am totally on board with anything that lends versimilitude to fics. :)

*Rereads own post*

...I would once again like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that I am in no way suggesting this idea so that I can have omakes with Alexandria Kuznetsova in the same city that I am currently living in and am familiar with. NO WAY. NO HOW. Such accusations are slanderous libel. Why would I ever want to do that. It is silly. Very silly reasoning. How dare u. > : P
I know how it goes. At least one moderately popular massive crossover setting tore down my dentist's office so they could build the headquarters campus of a multiversal polity's intelligence agency on it. And that was before the author'd even heard of me. :p

Well, the Academy and SFC are apparently taking up the space that's currently occupied by the Army Corps of Engineers.
And Starfleet's advanced small craft research branch has taken over Area 51.

[That's where Bazeck landed the Willard Decker on his way over to take up a position in Warp Core Fabrication]
 
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