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darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
Neither option is mentioned to increase mass, so I would presume the actual weight of the structure added is presumably similar in either case. (However that works.) Like if the actual pylons/rollbar choice itself influenced cost or manoeuvrability, Sayle would mention it.
Oh snap, saw someone else voting on the same page and thought it had opened. Will go back and edit.
These... are good points. I may be coming around.
Edit: swatted by WOG
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Furthest away from the warp core or duty stations so it's a good place to relax and watch the universe zip by.
- Pronouns
- Fae/Faer
Rollbar would look kinda weird but charming, so I'll be voting rollbar 
Mess around with the gravity systems and add a twist as the roll bar loops around and connects to the secondary hull and I think you could get a continuous path people could jog in a loop.
Light the bottom half with day lights and keep the top under the stars lit like it's night, with a false day night transition as you pass from one to the other.
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darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Big Andalite vibes, I approve in principle
Honestly letting the rollbar space be a swappable multi-mission module would actually be pretty neat. Torpedoes in wartime, and a a sensor package in peacetime.
This is something which fans often speculate was the case for the top bit of the superstructure for the Nebula class, as it is shown in different configurations throughout the show? Although it's also possible these are just different variants.
This is something which fans often speculate was the case for the top bit of the superstructure for the Nebula class, as it is shown in different configurations throughout the show? Although it's also possible these are just different variants.
Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
- Location
- Texas
I'm having flashbacks to people complaining about "not having enough ships" during the 4YW, and here we are teetering on the edge of a bunch of capable ships, or a few dreadnoughts.
Also remember that the Radiant, the failed cruise-cycling quad nacelle design of San Fran was a failure mostly because they didn't have enough of them for coverage. Let's not fall into the same pit.
Also remember that the Radiant, the failed cruise-cycling quad nacelle design of San Fran was a failure mostly because they didn't have enough of them for coverage. Let's not fall into the same pit.
I'm definitely not adding another two torpedo slots. As you can see there's zero chance anybody actually resists it.
The option explicitly states we have a chance at being a heavy cruiser over a single digit run ship. I'm going to take it.
If you believe somebody is posting unproductively the solution is to use the report button, not snipe at them. I believe my posts have been productive arguments trying to fight back against perception that this is going to be a solo operating ship versus command's actual stated of intent of using this in small task forces for the smallest deployments vs an old retrospective.
Personally I don't believe you've been a paragon of virtue in terms of productive discussion at all.
Honestly this is exactly what the current choice says is going to happen. Well put personally.
The option explicitly states we have a chance at being a heavy cruiser over a single digit run ship. I'm going to take it.
If you believe somebody is posting unproductively the solution is to use the report button, not snipe at them. I believe my posts have been productive arguments trying to fight back against perception that this is going to be a solo operating ship versus command's actual stated of intent of using this in small task forces for the smallest deployments vs an old retrospective.
Personally I don't believe you've been a paragon of virtue in terms of productive discussion at all.
Honestly this is exactly what the current choice says is going to happen. Well put personally.
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darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, this is meant to be a cruiser not a dreadnaught. So I'll be voting for Standard unless someone is extra convincing, BUT what I really want is extra module space so if we can mount all our torpedoes up there...
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Basically, I don't trust us to not overgun this thing into a Dreadnaught if we have rollbar launchers, and we don't have a guarantee we'd gain module space from that. But if we get it as a vote option I'll absolutely take it.
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We're going to have a bunch of capable capable and affordable ships of the line. They're called the Miranda class.
Like again, designing a battlecruiser here and then thinking that simply by cutting its alpha strike armament in half, which obviates its reason for existing in the first place, we somehow have an economical line cruiser is like... the most quester-brained thing imaginable.
The size and expense of ship we've designed here is not an economical line cruiser, it's a heavyweight ship-killer. So we need to maximise the value we're getting out of that.
Like again, designing a battlecruiser here and then thinking that simply by cutting its alpha strike armament in half, which obviates its reason for existing in the first place, we somehow have an economical line cruiser is like... the most quester-brained thing imaginable.
The size and expense of ship we've designed here is not an economical line cruiser, it's a heavyweight ship-killer. So we need to maximise the value we're getting out of that.
I mean, it just means San-Fran and the Miranda takes the multi-purpose cruiser role as a light cruiser while the Federation is built in fewer numbers. Oddly if you want to maximize the number of hills Starfleet builds period it may be best to build the Federation huge so we get just a few of them and a swarm of Miranda's (to save every episode from various space wedgies) rather than a medium number of not huge Federations and a handful of Mirandas.
I've never stated that, and will agree I've been part of the problem sometimes. Neither of us are blameless.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
yeah, I think a lot of us are kinda holding our breath and crossing our fingers and hoping QM weighs in on that possibility before the moratorium expires. 🤞
- Location
- USA
The radiant had more issues than just that. It was a very expensive ship that was only useful in large numbers which works at cross purposes. You can make an expensive ship but it has to be designed with the idea that few will be built.
Also in this case we have the Excaliburs and Mirandas to add to numbers. Giving us a top end ship that is setup for future refits to continue life I think would work well. Like we have the type 4 torpedoes in here and when it comes time for refit they might change those to type 4 rapids (assuming rapids will be made later) at which point having gone with more torpedoes will extend the lifetime of the ship.
This vote is like we've designed a 90% of a Ferrari, then suddenly panicked that we're not designing a family sedan, and decided to "fix" it by putting in a moped engine.
Making a compromised thoroughbred does not suddenly turn it into an affordable all-rounder. It just means the ship is still overpriced (heavy shielding, quad nacelles, list goes on), but not even good at the one thing (turning Klingons from biology into high-energy physics) that would justify that awesome price tag!
Making a compromised thoroughbred does not suddenly turn it into an affordable all-rounder. It just means the ship is still overpriced (heavy shielding, quad nacelles, list goes on), but not even good at the one thing (turning Klingons from biology into high-energy physics) that would justify that awesome price tag!
- Location
- his hidden lair
I don't mind the rollbar, but over-prioritizing torpedoes is a big mistake for a heavy ship like this. If the K'tinga has more than 120% maneuverability, then nothing on the Klingon warbook would qualify for single target damage. That means torpedoes do very little. That's not saying no torpedoes- but over investing torpedoes is building a dreadnought tailored to fighting other dreadnoughts that don't currently exist. This isn't 'getting stuck fighting the last war' this is simply looking at the operating environment this ship is likely to face and after the immense success of the Excalibur, expecting the K'tinga to completely ignore maneuverability is unlikely- especially because the Federation is an open enough society expecting the Klingons to hear nothing about the new 300kt heavy cruiser we're designing is unreasonable.
There's a point where overinvestment in weaponry produces minimal results, and the likely scenario where torpedoes and dual engines *are* relevant, namely the Federation serving long term in a secondary role as enemy ships get themselves larger- becomes much less relevant as Federation-class production is reduced to a handful of expensive dreads that are, if the name is any indication whatsoever, likely reserved for major fleet actions.
Naval design is not so simplistic that the torpedoes are the only way to justify the costs already incurred.
There's a point where overinvestment in weaponry produces minimal results, and the likely scenario where torpedoes and dual engines *are* relevant, namely the Federation serving long term in a secondary role as enemy ships get themselves larger- becomes much less relevant as Federation-class production is reduced to a handful of expensive dreads that are, if the name is any indication whatsoever, likely reserved for major fleet actions.
Naval design is not so simplistic that the torpedoes are the only way to justify the costs already incurred.
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As a rule, no.
The only reason I'm doing it here is because QM tells us that doing it would be Mission Failure.
[] Standard Nacelle Supports
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Standard Nacelle Supports
This is what quad nacelles gets you.
This is what quad nacelles gets you.
This ship has 200% manoeuvrability because we doubled up the engines. It very probably will outmanoeuvre even smaller Klingon vessels.
Let's not Quantum Leap back to the Kea armament debacle, where voters insist that torpedoes cannot hit Klingon capital ships. That is just factually and obviously false and has been proven so many times. Torpedoes are the single most powerful weapons system we possess in terms of their ability to add concentrated ship-killing firepower.
Let's not Quantum Leap back to the Kea armament debacle, where voters insist that torpedoes cannot hit Klingon capital ships. That is just factually and obviously false and has been proven so many times. Torpedoes are the single most powerful weapons system we possess in terms of their ability to add concentrated ship-killing firepower.
We're going to have a bunch of capable capable and affordable ships of the line. They're called the Miranda class.
Like again, designing a battlecruiser here and then thinking that simply by cutting its alpha strike armament in half, which obviates its reason for existing in the first place, we somehow have an economical line cruiser is like... the most quester-brained thing imaginable.
The size and expense of ship we've designed here is not an economical line cruiser, it's a heavyweight ship-killer. So we need to maximise the value we're getting out of that.
Everything you said is in direct contradiction of the actual quest text however. I'm going to believe the actual quest text instead of your speculation, because I'm tired of not taking the quest text at face value. 😩
- Location
- madison
i'm annoyed to say i can see the argument for accepting the rollbar. Because we have already taken every single, maximum cost option, at this point its going to be an overpriced heavy cruiser no matter what. So we might as well just go fuck it and abandon the intended concept altogether and make a good dreadnought. Because we've spent so much already, I am honestly not sure if we have already reached the point where we'd have to cut so many costs for the next set of options that our choices are an overpriced under gunned heavy cruser or just a dreadnought.
In short, we may well have already failed the classes stated purpose to the point where pivoting away from it might be the better option. This would however mean starfleet does not have a mainline cruiser to build in numbers.
In short, we may well have already failed the classes stated purpose to the point where pivoting away from it might be the better option. This would however mean starfleet does not have a mainline cruiser to build in numbers.
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