- Location
- Washington
"X gonna give it to ya" is in fact one of the possible concessions, as I see things.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Ok, this prompted me to think of another Black Essence spell we could make.
The idea is we use the Black Essence to create a spell that creates a localized, enhanced Pall of Darkness like effect around the head of every creature in an area. The mechanism would be to use the Black Essence to get in all the face holes of the targets, and the effect would block all sight, sound, and smell in a small sphere around their head. My use case would be both for infiltration or on a battlefield. For infiltration, while it wouldn't be subtle, we could use it to blind all the guards in a building, or all the orcs in a cave (or at least the ones near enough to us), and accomplish our mission. For a battle, I feel like having most of your senses blocked would be a huge disadvantage for most fighters, so if we could target a large enough group, it would be very effective against groups, including if we are surrounded.
@Boney is this a viable spell idea?
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
yeah.
I recognised that half a minute after I made my post, but I enjoyed the interrupt too much to edit it.
I stand by the interrupted point about some improvement to long term diplomatic relationships, despite the implications of that interrupt being there.
I'd rather get Bretonnia in asap and work with them on this rather than trade the projects results to them for thingys
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I have heard this argument made before, and I find it very frustrating - I hope you'll forgive a small diatribe on the subject, not directed at you specifically.
We are not obligated to go out of our way to get a worse deal than we would by waiting. It is not going to "damage relations" to not literally pay them to join a Project we think they will want to join up with later.
If this reasoning was valid, all trade would be damaging diplomatic relations, because we're charging them for things we think they want, instead of paying them to take our goods. In reality, trade between nations fosters friendship, even when neither nation is trying to give the other trade partner an unreasonably good deal.
Bretonnia is not going to be upset with us for making the Project's value obvious enough they'll want to join of their own volition. We aren't holding them at gunpoint.
EDIT:
And the reverse is not true either - paying them to come onboard is going to be seen as an equally fair deal now as them paying us to join is going to be seen as later, because they would not accept an unfair deal at either stage. They aren't going to look favourably on us for bringing them on board early, they're going to see it as us getting what we paid for, and vice versa.
If you want to maximise Bretonnian relations, the way to do that is to bring them onboard later and then do the Iron Orcs action as a separate transaction, making two friendly deals instead of one.
Last edited:
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I am not making that argument, or any argument that implies that either approach will worsen diplomatic relationships with Bretonnia and if that is what you have taken from my post then I have picked my words poorly.
This is a zero-sum consideration in my eyes.
Maybe there's multipliers goin on here rather than a more simple "+'s to one means -'s to the other",
But: getting them in sooner will give us a weaker bargaining position for what we know compared to getting them in later.
And getting them in later will give us less time working with them on mutual goals and less time improving relationships.
----
I'm not saying that relationships would be damaged.
I'm saying that the opportunity to improve relationships would be lost.
And I want to reach for that opportunity, and I don't care about getting whatever concessions might be on the table if we come to them in a better bargaining position when asking them to join the project and I hope a sufficient number of other voters have a similar preference to mine.
A silent majority, except not literally corpses, because we don't have suffrage for dead people.
Probably because necromancy isn't real.
Last edited:
That is actually a good point... Also I'm easily swayed because I wanna do the iron ork action
WhiteNights
Notorious Phoneposter
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Redshirt v4.53236
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal
[X] Plan Roadmap to Success + Ranald Liminal
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Oh, shit yeah.
Iron Ork action sounds cool af.
It's Mathilde going about being all stealthy. Like a fish.
Doing Scouting. Mathilde Scouting. Which is like regular scouting except she causes orcs to turn on eachother.
Honestly, I wonder if the Bright College has a few ready-made bombs we can ask to bring with us in case they might be useful,a dnthat we can return if they turn out not to be.
----
I mean, one of the points deathbybunnies made was that the Iron Ork action sounds good, even though we hold fundamentally differing opinions of how we want to approach inviting Bretonni- X GONNA GIVE IT TO YA
Last edited:
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I see! That makes more sense. I apologise - it seemed you were making the other argument, which has been made before.
I'd still argue that going off and doing the Iron Orcs action as a separate thing will engender more goodwill than bringing them on earlier will. Not least because we've been told that things have only been calm so far because the project members haven't really had to interact outside of meetings. We've been told that the project is going to start get politically heated later on - not a conducive environment for improving relations.
The political goodwill is going to come from having successfully worked together after the fact, not during it. In that sense, late joiners who still contribute are probably better off in that regard, dodging some of the arguments to come.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
IMO, the best way to get maximum value from Bretonnia is to get a working basic Waystone prototype, then do the Iron Orcs action, then try to bring them into the project (with the Coin on Father, if we assume the Lady is a Daughter).
With a working prototype, Bretonnia basically has to properly ante up if they want to be part of the project going forwards as we start working towards a scalable and deployable version, and that's only going to be amplified by being in our debt and using the Coin. That's probably our best chance of getting direct Fey Enchantress bullshit rolling.
With a working prototype, Bretonnia basically has to properly ante up if they want to be part of the project going forwards as we start working towards a scalable and deployable version, and that's only going to be amplified by being in our debt and using the Coin. That's probably our best chance of getting direct Fey Enchantress bullshit rolling.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
I think Boney said he would treat doing Iron Orcs as a recruitment action, so we wouldn't be doing them separately like youre suggesting
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
look man.
i just wanna hang out and chill[1] with these peeps.
not, like, sell them some sort of 'product'. miss me with that corporate bullshit mannnn.
In terms of 'pure goodwill' your line of argument is sound; it would depend hugely on what 'concessions' we argue for/what we want them to give us of course, but I do see where you are coming from.
I just want them to be a part of the general endev-
X GONNA GIVE IT TO YA
---
[1] Note; 'chill' in this context means 'work to understand and develope a means of supporting the infrastructure that prevents demons from being able to freely walk the material realm.'
Look I wanna hang back and chill and just share a few Mary Jane's with her.
But not like that man. It'll just harsh the vibe, yaknow?
I want to have scenes where we do SCIENCE [...MAGIC?] with them, and observe personal interactions rather than a probably more accurate-in-terms-of-depicting-something-with-long-term-utility high level transaction between two states.
I'd be trying to argue more persuasively if we didn't also have the Nexus actions to cover.
Last edited:
No, still works how he wants, because the order is kept so it should work.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I think it'd be a stronger negotiating position to make the promise of Iron Orc scouting during negotiations, rather than just doing it and letting them decide how much it's "worth" after the fact. I'm happy to roll it into the deal as a whole, though.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I've started on the big Apparition post, but it turns out writing up overviews for 9 different Apparitions takes a bit, so in the meantime I want to pose a question on the current topic: Do we want the Fey Enchantress involved? Yeah, it's cool, and she's the best from a pure magical theory perspective, but she's also an immensely important political figure who's used to operating in a context where she is effectively unquestionable.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Consider tho: This is gonna be during our gigaflex turn. Just presenting us solving the Iron Orcs as a fait accompli is significantly more of a flex.
Honestly I wouldn't want her permanently involved but I imagine having damsel who can throw questions back at her would be as my ideal solution.
I'm not sure if that is the case. To put some examaples Zlata has been with us from the very beginning of the project and I don't really feel we've imrproved our relationship with the Ice Witches in this time, same for house Tindonel or Laurelorn in general (sure they may be closer to us because of the actions that we have been taking, but not because of the Waystone Project by itself).
My point is that just because they're in the project sooner it doesn't mean our relationships with Bretonnia will improve. Which I feel is something that is getting treated as a fact, we get someone into the project==we are now friends or we will be friends into the future, just because they're in the project.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
We'd have to get a Waystone working very fast to be negotiating on the same turn we Gigaflex. If we pull that off then sure, that's a compelling argument for that specific turnConsider tho: This is gonna be during our gigaflex turn. Just presenting us solving the Iron Orcs as a fait accompli is significantly more of a flex.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@HanChenYou @kinigget @Jyn Ryvia
You're all voting for "[><] Plan Running Shoes with Seviroscope." but the proper name for the plan is "[><] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope". Without the "bring" the tallying tool thinks you're voting for a different plan.
You're all voting for "[><] Plan Running Shoes with Seviroscope." but the proper name for the plan is "[><] Plan Bring Running Shoes with Seviroscope". Without the "bring" the tallying tool thinks you're voting for a different plan.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
That's a fair point.
We need the Bretonnian representative to really grab us as a character, like Ljiljana, and the opportunity to spend a social action with them like Ljiljana, and be really awesome and be Ljiljana
OR be the Fey Enchantress, I suppose. That would be... ok. I mean, she's basically Bretonnia version of Kragg, so she shouldn't be that big a deal; he feeds us beer:
I regret posting this because BeepSmile.
Last edited: