Lights... Camera... ACTION!!: A Hollywood Quest

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
Hi Magoose here one of the guys helping Duke.

So we have some bad news.

The quest has been canceled as duke does not want to write it anymore.

I'm going to ask if I can take over for it, because I like this quest, and it would be a shame to kill it
TBF, Mags, you have been doing a lot of the heavylifting for the quest, so this will be in good hands. :)

To be clear to everyone, this is just me burning out on imagination of the quest, since my muse has been hitting me over the head a lot with so many different ideas that I just can't find myself too interested in this.

I'll still hang out here, though, since this still does have a sepcial place in my heart.

I'd like to thank you all for making this a wonderful experience while it lasted.

I'd also like to thank @Magoose, @Fluffy_serpent, and @Martin Noctis for doing so much to help prepare and write this quest. I couldn't have done it without you all. :D

I'll see you all around.

With so many regards, Duke William Of.
 
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[X] Yes
-[X] Joseph/Robin

We're under-budget and done early; we can afford to clean up the one truly bad roll we have.
 
[X] Yes
-[X] Joseph/Robin

We need to make the robin and Joseph scene good or else it would hurt the film by being heavily criticized

It's just one minor aspect of the film that isn't up to par and is literally our only roll that's under 50. I highly doubt that Joseph and Robin interactions is going to turn Five Dates into a box office bomb or get it critically panned. Even the greatest masterpieces and box office hits have some sort of flaw that people point out. Joseph and Robin isn't even critical in the story because it's Jasmine's Dad and Walter's Best friend. They probably only have a couple of minutes of screen time together at best and said relationship is not an emotional core of the story nor is it relevant to the plot. To give a similar example, Leia and Chewbacca barely interact in New Hope and don't have any sort of chemistry but that doesn't tank Star Wars just because the two characters who don't have a reason to be close in the first place don't vibe well together.

Joseph got a 105 Screen Presence, Robin got a 89, both had very great standalone performances and killed it with their other critical chemistry, it's fine. Although in saying that @Magoose I just noticed that Carrie and Joseph along with Bruce and Debbie don't have chemistry rolls despite them being the parent-child pairs of the film.
 
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Joseph got a 105 Screen Presence, Robin got a 89, both had very great standalone performances and killed it with their other critical chemistry, it's fine. Although in saying that @Magoose I just noticed that Carrie and Joseph along with Bruce and Debbie don't have chemistry rolls despite them being the parent-child pairs of the film.
Did I forget that when pasting them.

(Looks at update.)

Shit. Give me a sec.
 
Live-action, or animation?

Because on one hand, I don't think we'll be able to pull off the more fantastical and mythological elements with the current technology, and on the other I don't think it'll resonate with the majority of audiences to this point [Disney is most of the reason for the idea behind 'animation is for kids'].

Either way, I'm game.
Live-Action. More specifically, I think we can do a good Live-Action Hobbit film before we try anything with Lord of the Rings (of course, the Hobbit would be done in the 80s when we have enough to make realistic CGI), which is good since that will give time for the Bilbo Baggins actor to grow and make it less necessary to use CGI to age him later on.

If there's one thing that truly crushes me, is that if we go this path we will have created a world where the Lemiwinks song does not exist.

Can we live in such a world?
 
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Live-Action. More specifically, I think we can do a good Live-Action Hobbit film before we try anything with Lord of the Rings (of course, the Hobbit would be done in the 80s when we have enough to make realistic CGI), which is good since that will give time for the Bilbo Baggins actor to grow and make it less necessary to use CGI to age him later on.

If there's one thing that truly crushes me, is that if we go this path we will have created a world where the Lemiwinks song does not exist.

Can we live in such a world?
I think we should leave the Jackson movies relatively untouched…maybe make Gimli less of the comic relief instead of the noble warrior he was in the books.

The other changes, like cutting Tom Bombadil, Glorfindel, the Twins, Farmer Maggot being scared of the Nazgûl, the Barrow Wight, Eomer being the one to save the Hornburg instead of fighting there etc, the Army of the Dead at Pelennor…I understand those changes, they had to be made for the movie to hit better with audiences, even Aragorn being the heir to Isildur more then the heir to Elendil I get, it makes a character lore relatable to common audiences and the three act structure of character development for the trilogy and it did give Arathorn more character growth to match his opposite, Frodo.

So if we do the Hobbit movies (I think a duology myself) then we shouldn't touch Lord if the Rings until Jackson is ready to pick it up and roll out his trilogy. I am all for using the same Bilbo actor and using the 15-20 year time difference to make sure it shows he's aged a bit though.
 
I think we should leave the Jackson movies relatively untouched…maybe make Gimli less of the comic relief instead of the noble warrior he was in the books.

The other changes, like cutting Tom Bombadil, Glorfindel, the Twins, Farmer Maggot being scared of the Nazgûl, the Barrow Wight, Eomer being the one to save the Hornburg instead of fighting there etc, the Army of the Dead at Pelennor…I understand those changes, they had to be made for the movie to hit better with audiences, even Aragorn being the heir to Isildur more then the heir to Elendil I get, it makes a character lore relatable to common audiences and the three act structure of character development for the trilogy and it did give Arathorn more character growth to match his opposite, Frodo.

So if we do the Hobbit movies (I think a duology myself) then we shouldn't touch Lord if the Rings until Jackson is ready to pick it up and roll out his trilogy. I am all for using the same Bilbo actor and using the 15-20 year time difference to make sure it shows he's aged a bit though.
Ehhh...
One and only major critique I have about Jackson's LotR is that pretty much Merry and Pippin were in-name-only characters. They carry the names and appear in designated scenes, but their characterization had been pared down to basically caricatures.
I get it, it was already a long set of movies, but god dangit, those two are my favorites and I am entitled to feel grumpy over it.
 
Ehhh...
One and only major critique I have about Jackson's LotR is that pretty much Merry and Pippin were in-name-only characters. They carry the names and appear in designated scenes, but their characterization had been pared down to basically caricatures.
I get it, it was already a long set of movies, but god dangit, those two are my favorites and I am entitled to feel grumpy over it.
It's true of Gimli as well, he went from a noble warrior to more of a comic relief, including being an idiot about Moria when in the books he knew the place was fucked, but wanted to see what had happened anyway.

Aragorn goes from knowing and wanting to be king from the very start (being the heir to Elendil) to being worried he will end up failing and hesitant to take up the crown (being the heir of Isildur).

A lot of this was necessary, Lord of the Rings for an audience sitting nearly three hours per movie needed some more levity…but Jackson did go too far with Merry, Pippin and Gimli.

I could write a literal essay on why Jackson made the changes to characters, places, chronology etc. And why, for the common movie going audience, it was probably for the best.

The Nazgûl for instance, in the books Tolkien's prose let you know these guys are terrifying and a big deal…on screen we wouldn't have anything other than our eyes. So people like Farmer Maggot and the Inkeeper telling them to shove off would make them considerably less terrifying, hence why this was changed.
 
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I think we should leave the Jackson movies relatively untouched…maybe make Gimli less of the comic relief instead of the noble warrior he was in the books.

The other changes, like cutting Tom Bombadil, Glorfindel, the Twins, Farmer Maggot being scared of the Nazgûl, the Barrow Wight, Eomer being the one to save the Hornburg instead of fighting there etc, the Army of the Dead at Pelennor…I understand those changes, they had to be made for the movie to hit better with audiences, even Aragorn being the heir to Isildur more then the heir to Elendil I get, it makes a character lore relatable to common audiences and the three act structure of character development for the trilogy and it did give Arathorn more character growth to match his opposite, Frodo.
I agree with you on all counts; Peter Jackson did a fantastic job adapting the book, and the changes he made were absolutely necessary. I recall that I got into reading the books because of the movies, and was astounded at how many parts were different because of it. Though I could understand why, I mean it would not be very dynamic otherwise, and so many characters appeara that it would have made the already large cast feel bloated.

So yes, I agree that we shoul dwait until Peter Jackson can be given the reigns for Lord of the Rings, however that means we do need to get the rights for the films.
So if we do the Hobbit movies (I think a duology myself) then we shouldn't touch Lord if the Rings until Jackson is ready to pick it up and roll out his trilogy. I am all for using the same Bilbo actor and using the 15-20 year time difference to make sure it shows he's aged a bit though.
I agree that it should be a duology, but we should keep the first movie as OTL 1st Hobbit movie was. I think that it was pretty good by itself; the singing was nice, the action was well choreographed (and it showed how well the dwarves knew and had fought with each other to be so experienced at it), Gollum was top form, Goblintown does not need any explanation, it was perfection in and of itself, and the final part where Bilbo explains just why he is willing to continue the quest is just *Chef's kiss*.

I do however think we should remove the scenes that mention anything related to Sauron (That sub-plot never went anywhere) and I'm ambivalent as if to keep the orcs, but not as sworn enemies of Thorin, instead just a random group who found them and got curious (they could die in the first movie as well).

This would make the second movie the one that would have finding the elves, escaping, going into the city, finding Smaug, then the war of the armies. A bit too much, but i think it can be done.

Can we keep the fight with Smaug? I loved that scene!

Edit: I disagree with Gimli, I think he's the perfect blend between comic relief and great warrior.
 
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I agree that it should be a duology, but we should keep the first movie as OTL 1st Hobbit movie was
I was thinking we create space in the first movie by cutting the romance plotline and cut down on the length of the Goblin Town scene, cut the Necromancer arc entirely and replace the Azog plotline with Bolg trying to get revenge for his father.

Then end the movie with them seeing the Lonely Mountain for the first time, maybe keep the gag where the dwarves who were hiding their money immediately hand it to Bard when they see the mountain up close for the first time. Though of course keeping that bird goes into the mountain ending is great and we should o keep it if we have the technology for it.

Also Bard was kinda a pessimist and a loner in the books, I think it would be good to keep to that more here, instead of his hero of the people act.
 
I was thinking we create space in the first movie by cutting the romance plotline and cut down on the length of the Goblin Town scene, cut the Necromancer arc entirely and replace the Azog plotline with Bolg trying to get revenge for his father.

Then end the movie with them seeing the Lonely Mountain for the first time, maybe keep the gag where the dwarves who were hiding their money immediately hand it to Bard when they see the mountain up close for the first time. Though of course keeping that bird goes into the mountain ending is great and we should o keep it if we have the technology for it.

Also Bard was kinda a pessimist and a loner in the books, I think it would be good to keep to that more here, instead of his hero of the people act.
Wait, didin't the romance plotline began with the second movie? I don't think it's going to be introduced in any way then. Removing the necromancer and Aog plotline for Bolg and his quest of vengeance makes sense (and gives a better reason to make him an enemy than being under the command of the necromancer/Sauron. I will disagree however in cutting any part of Goblin Town. That scene was funny, dynamic, and outright amazing. It deserves to remain there, right along the scenes with Bilbo and Gollum.

I can agree with that, we could start the second movie with them entering the forest and being captured by the Forest Elves to create some tension as well.

I like the hero of the people, and Bard really sold the idea of wanting to protect everyone. I think that was one of the better changes that were done for the movie. Though I can agree with perhaps making him a bit more of a loner, though what would that entail for his children?
 
Wait, didin't the romance plotline began with the second movie? I don't think it's going to be introduced in any way then. Removing the necromancer and Aog plotline for Bolg and his quest of vengeance makes sense (and gives a better reason to make him an enemy than being under the command of the necromancer/Sauron. I will disagree however in cutting any part of Goblin Town. That scene was funny, dynamic, and outright amazing. It deserves to remain there, right along the scenes with Bilbo and Gollum.

I can agree with that, we could start the second movie with them entering the forest and being captured by the Forest Elves to create some tension as well.

I like the hero of the people, and Bard really sold the idea of wanting to protect everyone. I think that was one of the better changes that were done for the movie. Though I can agree with perhaps making him a bit more of a loner, though what would that entail for his children?
Yeah the romance started with the second movie, but with the necromancer plotline being nixed and the extended chase from goblin town being shorter you have more time, and with the romance plotline being cut, the time in Thuranduil's halls seems a lot shorter too.

As for Bard's kids, keep them, make them the only people he opens up to, he seems like a gruff Uber pragmatic pessimist and kind of a jerk in the first movie, but then in the second we start to see he really does care through his children, and later he shows the town he cares by helping people escape from Smaug and leading a company of archers to try and kill him. With this part of his personality publicly displayed, and the dragon dead, they choose him as their leader and king.

The structure of the movies was something along the lines of this in my head:

So the first movie would be Bilbo being recruited, the Trolls, going to Rivendell, then place them being chased by Orcs and Wargs here, with them taking refuge with Beorn before getting to Goblin Town, here we start learning about Bolg wanting to avenge his father on Thorin, there's the encounter in Goblin Town with the chase scene cut down, Gollum, Bolg and his wargs hunting Thorin, but instead of a fight, they just escape via the eagles, they go into Mirkwood, with Gandalf going to investigate Bolg, they get attacked by Spiders and then captured by Elves and ending with Bilbo helping the Company escape Thuranduil's halls and sneak towards Laketown with Bard, with Thorin accepting Bilbo as useful and a friend after his showing against the spiders and helping them escape the elves.

The second movie would be arriving in Laketown, getting acquainted with Bard's family, being discovered, convincing the town to help them instead of lynch them against Bard's advice, going into the mountain and everything with Smaug, from the duel of wits to Smaug going to burn Laketown and being slain by Bard with the help of a bird (maybe make it a talking bird companion?) then Bard and Thuranduil marching on Erebor, Bilbo stealing the Arkenstone, Thrain showing up with his army, Gandalf showing back up warning about the orcs and uniting the armies, then Thorin, Fili and Kili's death against Bolg and Beorn turning up to avenge the crimes he hints Bolg committed against his people, killing Bolg and break the goblin army, with Bilbo returning back home to find his stuff being sold off.
 
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Yeah the romance started with the second movie, but with the necromancer plotline being nixed and the extended chase from goblin town being shorter you have more time, and with the romance plotline being cut, the time in Thuranduil's halls seems a lot shorter too.

As for Bard's kids, keep them, make them the only people he opens up to, he seems like a gruff Uber pragmatic pessimist and kind of a jerk in the first movie, but then in the second we start to see he really does care through his children, and later he shows the town he cares by helping people escape from Smaug and leading a company of archers to try and kill him. With this part of his personality publicly displayed, and the dragon dead, they choose him as their leader and king.
I can see the time they have in Thuranduil's Halls being shorter (by the way, we keeping the scene where they escape and are chased by Elves?), but goblin Town's escape is just too good to be left out. It would be at best a few more minutes because it's basically linked with Bilbo and Gollum's riddle battle and the escape of the latter (Gollum's scream of rage and Biblo feeling pity must remain there) and Goblin Town's song and escape shouldn't take that long.

I agree with the portrayal of Bard you're proposing, I think it can work perfectly in that case, though we really should cut down in the scenes with the Master of Laketown and Alfrid, those guys just didn't work and had no reason asto why they were there.
The structure of the movies was something along the lines of this in my head:

So the first movie would be Bilbo being recruited, the Trolls, going to Rivendell, then place them being chased by Orcs and Wargs here, with them taking refuge with Beorn before getting to Goblin Town, here we start learning about Bolg wanting to avenge his father on Thorin, there's the encounter in Goblin Town with the chase scene cut down, Gollum, Bolg and his wargs hunting Thorin, but instead of a fight, they just escape via the eagles, they go into Mirkwood, with Gandalf going to investigate Bolg, they get attacked by Spiders and then captured by Elves and ending with Bilbo helping the Company escape Thuranduil's halls and sneak towards Laketown with Bard, with Thorin accepting Bilbo as useful and a friend after his showing against the spiders and helping them escape the elves.
Recruited by Dwarves. And the scene where Thorin accepts Bilbo is good, though I would have placed it where Bilbo escapes with them from Goblin Twon and gives his speech about home, and why he's willing to accompany them to free theirs. I just loved that one.
The second movie would be arriving in Laketown, getting acquainted with Bard's family, being discovered, convincing the town to help them instead of lynch them against Bard's advice, going into the mountain and everything with Smaug, from the duel of wits to Smaug going to burn Laketown and being slain by Bard with the help of a bird (maybe make it a talking bird companion?) then Bard and Thuranduil marching on Erebor, Bilbo stealing the Arkenstone, Thrain showing up with his army, Gandalf showing back up earning about the orcs and uniting the armies, then Thorin, Fili and Kili's death against Bolg and Beorn turning up to avenge the crimes he hints Bolg committed against his people, killing Bolg and break the goblin army, with Bilbo returning back home to find his stuff being sold off.
Just to clarify, the parts with Smaug would include all of them fighting and reactivating the forge to face him right? And, are we having the Dwarve army make an appearance as well?

I'm going to bed now, see you tomorrow.
 
I could write a literal essay on why Jackson made the changes to characters, places, chronology etc. And why, for the common movie going audience, it was probably for the best.
I agree with you on all counts; Peter Jackson did a fantastic job adapting the book, and the changes he made were absolutely necessary.
In all honesty, I feel like many of them weren't necessary but for aesthetic and film trope reasons, to the point I believe he completely shifted a good chunk of the philosophical and theological implications of the books.

Now, beyond that I think he did a very good job translating the books (except for the armor– I loathe that armor design for aesthetic reasons, though that might be the pragmatist in me talking), but I think there's a lot we can do with the visuals, music and character acting to subtly introduce the deeper lore that would be disgarded unobtrusively to the audience.

By the way, either of you "read" the Hobbit/LOTR audiobooks as read by Andy Serkis? It's gorram brilliant is what that is.
Even if we (accidentally or otherwise) butterfly away Jackson's work, we need to get Andy Serkis working for us. Absolutely criminal he doesn't have an Oscar.
 
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the scene where Thorin accepts Bilbo is good, though I would have placed it where Bilbo escapes with them from Goblin Twon and gives his speech about home, and why he's willing to accompany them to free theirs. I just loved that one.
He can still give the speech, but he hasn't exactly down anything to earn his keep in the eyes of Thorin by that point…he arguably to blame for them getting caught by the Trolls, as much as he was the one to solve it, he escape Goblin Town, but didn't help the others during it. Overall I wanted to keep Thorin accepting Bilbo after he hears Bilbo's reasons for joining the company, and then Bilbo contributes during the encounter with the Spiders and then breaks them out of the Elven prisons.

Just to clarify, the parts with Smaug would include all of them fighting and reactivating the forge to face him right? And, are we having the Dwarve army make an appearance as well?
Possibly yeah, if we can get the affects ready and able to do all of that, I think we'll be a lot more limited then Jackson was. And the Dwarf army won't fight the elves, it'll turn up, look like it's going to start a battle…and then in comes Gandalf, turns out he left them before they entered Mirkwood to investigate Bolg and found out he's gathered a huge orc army and is coming for them, so the three armies lay an ambush for the orcs like in the books.
 
In all honesty, I feel like many of them weren't necessary but for aesthetic and film trope reasons, to the point I believe he completely shifted a good chunk of the philosophical and theological implications of the books.
I recall Christopher Tolkien had issues with the movies as he felt they glorified battle, which was against what he felt his father intended.

There is a large theme of pacifism and the tragedy or war in Tolkien's magnum Opus. But unlike Tolkien who was able to get past the battles as quickly as possible and take a more objective look at them as a writer, Jackson knew action was one of the main draws to a mainstream audience, and that he couldn't gloss over things the way Tolkien sometimes did.

There are three major themes forgotten or ignored by the movies that were in the books.

Firstly is the stance of war being a last resort and not something to glorify, which is still somewhat present in the fact Frodo never got over his trauma and it eventually forced him to leave Middle Earth and the suffering we see people go through due to the war, Jackson made sure to emphasise the horrors of war in Two Towers especially. However he couldn't skimp on the action scenes, they were one of the biggest draws to an audience, and a chunk of each book that is plot necessary occurs around these battles.

Secondly is Monarchism. Tolkien was a bit of a romanticist and called upon old fashioned ideas of the monarch as having a connection to the realm, hence why the line of Stewards see's Gondor decline despite competence, they don't have the figurative and literal healing hands of a king. For modern audiences, especially American modern audiences, Aragorn from the books and this message is less palatable. In the books Aragorn has been working towards becoming king since he was in his twenties (about half a century ago in the books), he carries around the broken Narsil, gets Anduril before leaving Rivendell, introduces himself as King whenever he meets another noble etc. Aragorn of the movies is an underdog who is unsure about wether he should become king and shameful of his heritage. Hence why in the books he's called the heir to Elendil, and in the movies the heir to Isildur. This underdog and reluctant king is much more acceptable to a mainstream audience in the modern day, however Jackson still kept the King being a better ruler then others segment, just hidden by continually reminding people of a bad king (Isildur) so as to make the medieval take on monarchy less clear to an audience that is largely liberal, meritocratic and democratic.

Finally and most famously, the idea that the battle against evil never truly ends. This is symbolised by the scouring of the Shire, the Hobbits couldn't just go home and enjoy their lives with the dark lord gone. It's also seen in how Tolkien believed that there would be another dark lord when he started, then aborted, a sequel to Lord of the Rings about people who worshipped Sauron forming cults across the Reunited Kingdom. In the movies it's far more clear cut. The bad guy is gone, most of us get happy endings, except for Frodo who is traumatised by the war and violence.

I'm going to be honest with you, Return of the King had almost too many endings, if the Scouring of the Shire had been added…well, that may have been a step too far. And you can't leave a massive trilogy like that on an anti-climatic note like that. Tolkien could, because it fit the themes and his writing allowed for it to feel as though it was part of the war, as the books were able to show the wider scope of the conflict. The movies had to monofocus, and the scouring of the Shire wouldn't have worked without the buildup and larger picture the books could afford.

I've gone a little into the character changes of people like Gimili, and characters and scenes skipped out like Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Wight, and I could go far more in depth. But I feel Jackson was handling a different circumstance, unable to show as much, having to give audiences something closer to what he knew they'd find palatable. He found an awesome balance between book loyalty, filming constraints and appeasing and audience in my opinion.
 
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does re shoot include music? if so that's what we should reshoot

I don't see the tolkien estate giving us the rights to the movies as long as christopher is alive
 
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Any chance of seeing Jackie Chan come back into pksy somehow? I won't lie big fan of the man sndvutsxbr cool to see him as part of Lucas films.
 
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