Hakarti and Halétha might be the same God? Their names are very close, and they are both Godesses of magic. Of course, that opens up the question of who the imperial version of Atharti is—Marisith believes it might be Vylmar, but they are typically depicted as male.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Hakarti and Halétha might be the same God? Their names are very close, and they are both Godesses of magic. Of course, that opens up the question of who the imperial version of Atharti is—Marisith believes it might be Vylmar, but they are typically depicted as male.
maybe, and I thought about it, but it won't make a significant change to cutting down the 4 list groups because even if they are the same god, they don't sure time period. (it wont speed up the search.)
same if the gods are from different time periods, until one is found that is.
@mathymancer you kind of lost me at other applications of Halétha's favor, for one simple reason, we do not need more avenues of research, we do not need more stuff to do along some uncertain path. We have far more avenues of magical advancement than we have AOP o use them on. We have not even managed to shake free the AP to codify Rite of Way. One of the major reasons we want Faith instead of Truth was that people were concerned with the time investment of Truth, even though it could be applied to divine artifacts in our possession and in the possession of our allies and it had clear and obvious utility spelled out in the update.
Compared to that going for Halétha for indeterminate shadow magic boons is unlikely to work at least in my opinion.
Compared to that going for Halétha for indeterminate shadow magic boons is unlikely to work at least in my opinion.
I don't expect to get a research tree. We had Ranald's favour from the start of the quest, and that didn't translate to research actions, it just meant we got a bonus to one of our actions every turn. I'm not saying that Halétha's favour will definitely be useful in the exact same way, but I do expect it to be worth something. Someone 'recognizing us as being worthy of trust and faith' might mean they will do us some favours or trust us with some secrets, I don't see how it's going to mean we need to research them.
I mean 'here is a pile of research to adapt Hedgewise spells which are thematically similar to Ulgu' is in fact helpful, it is not the kind of helpful most of us want, but you cannot say it would provide no advantage. We are an arcane caster and any secrets of magic they might have would be divine.
Yes, it is possible that whatever Halétha has to offer us would not be helpful in the way that we want, or indeed won't be helpful at all. Maybe Halétha's favour just gives a +20 to rolls ro conceive, who knows? Maybe having a Goddess trust us actually has no benefit whatsoever? I am well aware that the benefits of this course of action are uncertain, but there are several different possible benefits and all of them are at least somewhat likely. The argument that 'maybe whatever we get out of this will be bad actually' applies to most things we can do, including every single recruitment option - what if we waste an action investigating Alric only to find out that the Light Order's knowledge is actually a pain in the ass to use and we need a 12 action research plan to use it?
As I've said:
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
I mean, @mathymancer could be wrong, but I'm willing to Honor the Gambler by Trusting in the Father if the option is presented.
Unless someone makes a vote promising a Mammoth and/or Griffon, in which case I'll ruthlessly betray the cause in a heartbeat. Nothing business, it's just personal.
Unless someone makes a vote promising a Mammoth and/or Griffon, in which case I'll ruthlessly betray the cause in a heartbeat. Nothing business, it's just personal.
- Location
- Earth
All of this is a little premature, anyways. We still have the Jades coming up, and who knows what the social interaction initiated by somebody else or other plot hooks will do. We can more accurately weigh the pros and cons when we have a better grasp of the competing obligations and interests that Mathilde will have at the end of the turn.
The thing is if we are to go for the Father it would make the most sense to use it for multiple actions and not just one, its like the Night Prowler and the Deciever that way so what we would have to do is a focused turn on things that might or might not be related to our job, at a time when the threat is starting to get antsy about starting the project already. I think it would have been much easier to argue for the Father if we had a light turn, the touuble is that we get those when we have just had some sort of success... and what is hardly the case we have not even started the project proper.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Every action spent attempting recruiting is a work action. If we did a blitz and burned four AP going to every decent prospect we narrow down, the worst that would be said is that it sucks that it didn't work out and maybe we should vary our approach.
We'd actually be better off the more we invested, because failure when you're energetically trying doesn't look as bad.
We'd actually be better off the more we invested, because failure when you're energetically trying doesn't look as bad.
- Location
- France
Well this aged well...
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
When my entire interest in the subject can be summed up as:
Any AP spent on the subject does not seem like a waste.
I was talking more about threat recruitment fatigue than anything IC.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
That is sadly an embuggerance, along with Boney fatigue with variations on a theme. But trying to get multiple turns of Trusting in the Father is likely to be just as hard a sell on the out of character front.
Clearly we need to hold another paradigm shattering symposium and schmooze the attendees from far and wide. Now which Nekheharan Dynasty Numismatic Presentation do you think is our best bet?
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
When my entire interest in the subject can be summed up as:
Any AP spent on the subject does not seem like a waste.
that is fair. but people are talking about giving up other opportunities because of some sort of advantage when dealing with unknown unknowns. Which is just sunk cost.
Its not really unknown unknowns though?
We have already reasoned out a shortlist of who might be it, and we could hit the relevant ones with the Coin set to that face(applying to every AP at once), rather than the much slimmer chance of the Gambler landing on the AP that needs it, with a bonus that manages to be relevant.
If we lap the lot at one go its more efficient than the Gambler even if half are duds.
We have already reasoned out a shortlist of who might be it, and we could hit the relevant ones with the Coin set to that face(applying to every AP at once), rather than the much slimmer chance of the Gambler landing on the AP that needs it, with a bonus that manages to be relevant.
If we lap the lot at one go its more efficient than the Gambler even if half are duds.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Minor quibble, but it would be an appropriate reward for an Ulgu user. That said, Mathilde doesn't really need something like that to buff her mindset. But maybe her inner hivemind does.
That said, your argument is compelling. Of course I already wanted to recruit the Halethans. The turn after the next one. Because this one I want to investigate Alric, preferably with a Coin face conductive to it. Which could be well coupled with investigating others as well. Which might just as well be the Hedgewise and a couple of Elven Houses. So that we actually know just what we are recruiting the following turn.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I agree with this. Using this coming turn to investigate Alric, scope out an Eonir faction or two, and maybe poke at a Waystone personally would be really nice. Then on T38 we hopefully have enough intel to use the Father face on at least one faction of interest and take the "form a framework" action, especially with the benefit of Overwork being available then.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
How do we want to approach Alric?
Night Prowler, Deceiver, and Protector all have valid arguments for use, I think - Night Prowler to be literally divinely unnoticeable, which should do well even against Alric's grasp of Hysh, Deceiver to sell Alric a crock of shit if we want to, or Protector to kill-steal and get all the credit.
Night Prowler, Deceiver, and Protector all have valid arguments for use, I think - Night Prowler to be literally divinely unnoticeable, which should do well even against Alric's grasp of Hysh, Deceiver to sell Alric a crock of shit if we want to, or Protector to kill-steal and get all the credit.
It has also been half a year out of character. Thread impatience is more likely to track with that.
Since apparently we're not sabotaging Alric, just investigating, isn't the coin better used for recruiting success?
Just imagine her conversation with Alric, even without the coin helping.
Alric: "Why are you here, Lady Mathilde?"
Mathilde: "Potential dangers to the Empire are my job. Are you telling me there isn't one here?"
Alric: "Didn't you come here as a favor to Mira?"
Mathilde: "I had my agents investigating here well before I knew you were in the area. I'm sure your rivals might like it if you failed, but I didn't come here planning to sabotage your work."
Alric: "Don't interfere!"
Mathilde: "Interfere? Lord Alric, if you're out to fight Chaos, I want you to succeed in that. I suppose your rivals might be embarrassed, but I don't see how their embarrassment is my responsibility."
No lies told! Sure, she's asking questions about a potential Chaos site and a possibly overly ambitious wizard. But that's Mathilde literally doing her job as a Grey.
So even if Alric doesn't want to cooperate with her, I don't see why she'd need to apologize or directly lie.
Unless the thread votes for sabotage, not just investigation, I think the coin bonus is better spent on recruiting success.
You have to assume more than one Grey asked annoying questions about Alric after the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels. If Alric took offense over every annoying Grey investigator, he'd already be in feud with the whole Grey Order.
Just imagine her conversation with Alric, even without the coin helping.
Alric: "Why are you here, Lady Mathilde?"
Mathilde: "Potential dangers to the Empire are my job. Are you telling me there isn't one here?"
Alric: "Didn't you come here as a favor to Mira?"
Mathilde: "I had my agents investigating here well before I knew you were in the area. I'm sure your rivals might like it if you failed, but I didn't come here planning to sabotage your work."
Alric: "Don't interfere!"
Mathilde: "Interfere? Lord Alric, if you're out to fight Chaos, I want you to succeed in that. I suppose your rivals might be embarrassed, but I don't see how their embarrassment is my responsibility."
No lies told! Sure, she's asking questions about a potential Chaos site and a possibly overly ambitious wizard. But that's Mathilde literally doing her job as a Grey.
So even if Alric doesn't want to cooperate with her, I don't see why she'd need to apologize or directly lie.
Unless the thread votes for sabotage, not just investigation, I think the coin bonus is better spent on recruiting success.
You have to assume more than one Grey asked annoying questions about Alric after the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels. If Alric took offense over every annoying Grey investigator, he'd already be in feud with the whole Grey Order.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Eh. It's a six month action, making preparations beforehand seems expected. If you are thinking we should find out if they are useful to us first, I don't think that is information that they are willing to share. We aren't showing our hand yet, so I'm very much of the option that more are better.
Again, we aren't going to know if they are useful until it is cards on the table time. We have to spend AP to try and recruit them, then possibly spend more AP to get them to buy in, all before we get to see if they actually have anything or if they are bluffing.
I think we should expect even a few of the factions we have been counting on to not actually have anything useful, so I want to get as many potentials as possible.
I did want to mention thread impatience as a concern- I hear some people when they say they want to move on to starting already, but...
For me it's the opposite: I took it seriously when it was suggested that this project might last the rest of Mathilde's life, and so I regard the exploration of who these elves are and how they are tangled up in eachother to be wonderfully entertaining. We are adventuring, to go to strange places and talk to strange people, and I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and stop treating this as something we can speed blitz to get onto the next thing.
Savor the recruitments. It's good writing. Savor the leisurely pace- it's a chance to be a Lady Magister tooling about getting respect without *needing* to cut out inessential actions. We are working with patient folk and we are the lead human- we set the pace.
So let's not try to rush this, or jump ahead. Let's lay foundations properly, because this really is our masterwork, and because each thing we see is new and exciting and cool.
And because the longer we can delay placing our cards on the table, the better a hand we can assemble before we need to reveal it. I'd like to have a winning one at that point.
I like the goddess of the shadows a lot, but these two are my personal favs of the options. Cats and love? Mist and safe travels? It's great!
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Prince Galenstra and his House Fanpatar worship Ladrielle if you're curious over whether she's an option.