deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
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Storm of Magic.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Looking at my copy: It appears you are correct @Altom ! I sit corrected!
In that case... I don't see why it would be an issue to just have Cython be a generic Ice Emperor Dragon with four wizard levels? Qrech would probably just be a generic warlord on tabletop anyway.
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Codex
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Special Characters always have something unique to set them apart from the generic forces. It would be boring for me and for the people reading if I just copy pasted statblocks from the books with no changes. I generally try to give 2-3 special rules and some magic items or something to set the profiles I make apart, otherwise it feels bland.
Like, if I made Qrech I would give him the ability to grant one free reform per turn to a friendly Skaven unit, similarly to what I gave Belegar. I would also give him the ability to disrupt enemy formations even if he charges from the front if he's part of a unit to represent his skills as a captain of raiders. I would also give him Hatred of Chaos Dwarves and make it so that a force led by Qrech doesn't have the "Fragile Alliance" rule and if Qrech is in an alliance with Ogres they count as "Trusted Allies" instead of "Suspicious Allies", which is the standard state of an Alliance with Ogres that aren't Golgfag.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Hmm. While I can understand the impulse, I'm not sure I can agree with it. I say this as someone who has made a hilariously overtuned tabletop statblock for Freddy over in Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism. But I've increasingly come to the conclusion that giving named characters so many goodies over and above the typical examples of their type, rather than also giving them demerits like Konrad not even being a wizard, calls into question the accuracy of the generic statblock in the first place.
At most I'd give Qrech "Hates Chaos Dwarves". The other stuff you propose to give him are massively over powered, disruption is massive in an army as morale dependent as the skaven.
Wasn't belegar already stated up in 8th?
- Location
- Germany
You might lower his WS a bit compared to more active dragons (since he spends most of his time sleeping and we've seen him use more magic and breath than actual claws, with the Ork Boss' statue for example).
In return to draw a bit on his history a Hatred for Dark Elves and their monsters might work and a weak Ward Save to represent his strange body-compositon (he could blind a foe by sparkling or be invisible for a moment before a snowy backround)
That is how Ward Saves work, right? A protective effect that cannot be overcome by using more strenght or armor-piercing weapons.
Codex
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Yes, but DL Belegar is barely anything like canon Belegar.
The solution for the "overpowered" thing is that Special Characters cost more points than your average character, in fact that's the case so often that most people prefer to use generic characters rather than run Special Characters. Sure Qrech has the ability to disrupt enemy formations if he charges them from the front, but that only applies to the unit that he, the Army General (most likely) is in. Qrech is a Lord Unit, that is what a Warlord is. If you're making a Special Character, you give them something to make them stand apart, or else what is even the purpose of making the statblock? Where's the flavor?
Disruption also isn't as powerful as you seem to be thinking. All disruption does is remove rank bonus, which most of the time is only relevant during Combat Resolution (there are a few situations in which rank bonus is relevant during charging, but you can't charge if you're in close combat so it's irrelevant to this conversation). Most of the time the Skaven are the ones claiming rank bonus, so there isn't that much of a difference aside from when you're fighting in groups of disciplined Stormvermin against large groups of Chaff or something.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
But is DL Belegar so different that it would matter on a battlefield beyond the sorts of orders that he would give? To the point that he would have extra special rules that canon Belegar wouldn't? I'm not sure it would.
If the name and personality attached to said name aren't enough to make the character stand out then there are some issues there. Grimm Burlokson is literally a generic Master Engineer with some one off gadgets of the sort appropriate for a named engineer character, like how in the Empire book engineer characters can take a mechanical horse. I think Cython and Qrech don't need so many extra bennies to stand out, Boney is a good enough writer to be sure of that.
Combat resolution is one of the most important steps in the tabletop game. Rank Bonuses are huge, and the ability to disrupt from the front is basically +3 combat res to all the fights Qrech gets into. That makes it much less likely that Qrech's unit will lose, and therefore that it could ever break from combat.
...
Shit. I am being the asshole who is ragging on someone for showing enthusiasm for a thing they like because they "are having fun wrong". Sorry, I'll stop.
For Cython's unique mechanic: Maybe add some priestly flavor to his casting? That reflects his interests, and his relationship with the wind. I don't actually know enough about the crunch to know how that would actually go into the rules though.
One more idea, have him as special character in a scenario, where he blocks a really valuable point, but to if you poke him you have to deal with him. Maybe the Skyre player starts with a good chunk of points more, but also has a hard time moving his troops out because the main exit is blocked/his units have to stay while Cython does?
One more idea, have him as special character in a scenario, where he blocks a really valuable point, but to if you poke him you have to deal with him. Maybe the Skyre player starts with a good chunk of points more, but also has a hard time moving his troops out because the main exit is blocked/his units have to stay while Cython does?
Codex
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You're free to make your own stuff if you find what I make objectionable.
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- Actually pretty lost
Subject change? Subject change!
I threw together a preliminary plan for next turn, based on what's currently available:
[ ] Preliminary Plan
-[ ] EGRIMM: Investigate what Alric is up to.
-[ ] JOHANN: Learning: Take the College class on Ritual Magic
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands
-[ ] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Tindomiel/Thyriolan)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (The Ward of Frost)
It turns out Egrimm already had an "Investigate what Alric is already up to" option, so that's convenient! We can investigate with him.
People appear to have warmed to the idea that the Waystone Project is going to involve rituals. As much as I'd like to credit past arguments I've made, it's probably because the existence of canon Waystone-related rituals was brought up. In any case, it behooves us to learn at least the basics of what rituals are and how they work. Meanwhile we already know Johann's inflexible magic allows for at least the rituals of Gilding, so it would be good for him to find out if that extends to ritual magic in general, or at least a subset of it.
Max is benefiting from the "free" WEB-MAT action here, but investigating those rubbings and notes seems ideal for his Amanuensis trait. (There is also technically a chance that Lizardmen writings might mention the Geomantic Web, which would be relevant to Waystones, but that seems pretty negligible.)
We really ought to take a look at the thing we're supposed to be leading a research project on at some point.
Finally, it's probably about time we brought in some Elven houses. I picked the Ward of Frost because Vicereine Cadaeth is from there, and is thus presumably an easy win. The second house is a much trickier choice. I've picked two diametrically opposed magic-based options - one opposed to getting involved with outsiders (but that sees the waning Waystone network as a serious threat) and one so open to the idea they'd welcome Druuchi.
I threw together a preliminary plan for next turn, based on what's currently available:
[ ] Preliminary Plan
-[ ] EGRIMM: Investigate what Alric is up to.
-[ ] JOHANN: Learning: Take the College class on Ritual Magic
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands
-[ ] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Tindomiel/Thyriolan)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (The Ward of Frost)
It turns out Egrimm already had an "Investigate what Alric is already up to" option, so that's convenient! We can investigate with him.
People appear to have warmed to the idea that the Waystone Project is going to involve rituals. As much as I'd like to credit past arguments I've made, it's probably because the existence of canon Waystone-related rituals was brought up. In any case, it behooves us to learn at least the basics of what rituals are and how they work. Meanwhile we already know Johann's inflexible magic allows for at least the rituals of Gilding, so it would be good for him to find out if that extends to ritual magic in general, or at least a subset of it.
Max is benefiting from the "free" WEB-MAT action here, but investigating those rubbings and notes seems ideal for his Amanuensis trait. (There is also technically a chance that Lizardmen writings might mention the Geomantic Web, which would be relevant to Waystones, but that seems pretty negligible.)
We really ought to take a look at the thing we're supposed to be leading a research project on at some point.
Finally, it's probably about time we brought in some Elven houses. I picked the Ward of Frost because Vicereine Cadaeth is from there, and is thus presumably an easy win. The second house is a much trickier choice. I've picked two diametrically opposed magic-based options - one opposed to getting involved with outsiders (but that sees the waning Waystone network as a serious threat) and one so open to the idea they'd welcome Druuchi.
Codex
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I would like to point out that Boney had to make several postss replying to my statements about Hekarti to clarify that the Dark Elves don't have a monopoly on her worship and their way of worshipping her isn't necessarily the way every Elf worships her. She's apparently not the Goddess of Dark Magic, she is the Goddess of all Magic, which includes Dark Magic. We really have no clue how House Tindomiel feel about the Druchii.
Can we please remember to talk to the elves before recruiting the elves?
I think the way to conceptualize Hekarti is that she is the goddess of wild magic, Hoeth is the god of magic as an academic endeavor, he is the god who would bear the most kinship to the way Teclis taught the Colleges. By contrast Hekarti seems to be of a more primal nature, a patron of the winds, not a craftsman who weaves them together.
Codex
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Hoeth is the God of Knowledge, and that is often conflated to be God of Magic:
In the Army Books, Dark Elf casters have Hekarti's Blessing which gives them +1 when casting Dark Magic. The High Elves also have a similar ability for High Magic, but it's "Lileath's Blessing" not "Hoeth's Blessing". Hekarti was responsible for the creation of magical items that ended up in the mortal realm, such as the Ring of Fury forged by her and Vaul working together. Lileath was also responsible for the forging and gifting of at least 3 magical artifacts to the High Elves. The Star Crown which gifts visions of all times and places known to the gods, shattered by Malekith during his invasion on Saphery. The Amulet of Sunfire, which Morvael the Impeteous gave to his son and was lost in his son's voyage at sea, and the Moon Staff of Lileath currently wielded by Teclis. Even Alith Anar's Moonbow was gifted to him Lileath.
Despite being the one that the White Tower of Hoeth is named after, there's barely any magic items, feats or magical stuff associated with Hoeth himself, it's all about his tower, which is really only associated with him by the technicality that Mages and Archmages consider themselves scholars. Lileath has far more of a connection to magical items and blessings, and so does Hekarti for the Dark Elves.
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I also considered recruiting the Cult of Verena and the Amber Order, but there's not really any impetus to get them sooner than the Elves, whereas even the extremely long-lived Elves will presumably get annoyed if we fail to even reach out to them after long enough.
You're right, I was slightly mixed up with the Ward of the Storm, which is explicitly in favour of outreach to humans and druuchi.
I didn't even have her on my list of potential daughters of Ranald, but that makes sense.
Codex
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I do want to eventually meet up with the Warden of Storm Kaia Stormwitch, partly because I'm intrigued by her, and partly because I want to confirm whether she's the same Kaia Stormwitch who used to be part of Scarloc's Band during his stint as a mercenary/when they fought N'Kari. Scarloc is one of those characters who only gets brief mentions here and there in the books but I love them. He/they legend.
Chances are GW decided to recycle Asrai names for Laurelorn, like they did with Lady Delynna of Anmyr in Athel Loren having the same name as Lady Delynna of the Ward of the Sun in Laurelorn. I would find it funny if she was oscillating between Asrai and Eonir territories, as unlikely as that is. At least with Kaia you could say she was an adventurous youth who decided to join up with Scarloc and settled down as Warden of Storm later in life, not so much for Lady Delynna.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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Scarloc had an entry in the 4th edition Wood Elves book.
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Oh I know about that, but I was talking about later editions. 4th Edition had entries for tons of characters. Valmir von Raukov, Aldebrand Luddenhof, Marius Leitdorf and Boris Todbringer all had statblocks alongside the standard Karl/Kurt/Volkmar/Gelt etc.
Boris came back in 6th Edition for Storm of Chaos and Marius came back in 8th Edition, but Valmir and Aldebrand were lost to the sands of time. Helmut Feurbach, Alberich Haupt-Anderssen, Theoderic Gausser, Emmanuelle von Liebwitz, and Wolfram Hertwig never got statblocks afaik, but I haven't read every White Dwarf article (yet).
I also realised writing this that I can recite the names of all the canonical Elector Counts from memory. What is wrong with me.
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- Utrecht
Considering how much lore you read in the last months... Why are you surprised?
If there was a degree in Warhammerology, you'd be well on your way.
- Location
- Canada
We really need to consider when we plan to start the project. While we could probably recruit forever without running out of options, we probably want to actually get started at some point. Opportunity costs of waiting and all that. Plus a potential too many cooks situation. So when and with whom do we want so say that we have enough people, and actually get started?
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If we get the Jade order on this, I think we'd want one more local elven group (a Ward or a House) and then we'd get going. We also need to spend a action examining a waystone at least so we can bluff with a better hand
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I asked that question before and didn't really get an answer. The problem is that this is a quest, and the majority of the people who vote are silent and only cast their opinion by voting. Quest voterbases also have constantly shifting opinions based on whatever development is most recent, so the thread's opinion can change very quickly. A single post from Boney clarifying a thread misunderstanding can turn the outcome of a vote on its head for example.
Personally I would like to get at least House Tindomiel on our side as well as the Ice Witches, and there's been a recent resurgence in support for the Hedgefolk because of the whole she might be one of Ranald's Daughters thing. I can't speak for the others, but I'd be fine with Hedgefolk, Ice Witches and Tindomiel then getting started.
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3 is waaaay to many, especially given it does seem that everyone approach is going to want *something* from us, and costs are rising the less relations we have (see - the Lights we're probably going to have to give an action, but the dwarfs we just needed to stake some influence and reputation)
consequences
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I would probably go with ten paces for his earlier thoughts about his god granted blindsense. Thirty feet doesn't feel like a very natural thought for an empowered champion of chaos, unless they took a long and winding road from a Nuln or Altdorf institution of higher learning to get where they are. Or I suppose if Tzeentch is deliberately messing with him by having his gift shove alien thoughts into his head.
Ok, so stick with thirty feet if it enhances his backstory or characterization and relationship with the Four then.