Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
We really need to consider when we plan to start the project. While we could probably recruit forever without running out of options, we probably want to actually get started at some point. Opportunity costs of waiting and all that. Plus a potential too many cooks situation. So when and with whom do we want so say that we have enough people, and actually get started?
Personally, I'm torn between to options.

-choose to begin next turn then bring other people in, because I'm really exited to at last begin that damn project 😏

-wait to bring at least the Hekarti house and Caedath's ward/territory, then maybe the Ice Witches. Hekarti because magic, Caedath because she already interacted with us and was quite friendly: returning the favour by putting her in would be the correct thing to do, and it will probably be easy.

What would be the consequences of beginning the project next turn and waiting to bring in more people, instead of waiting? Would it be bad for the actual working of the project or our future recruitment prospects?
 
I would probably go with ten paces for his earlier thoughts about his god granted blindsense. Thirty feet doesn't feel like a very natural thought for an empowered champion of chaos, unless they took a long and winding road from a Nuln or Altdorf institution of higher learning to get where they are. Or I suppose if Tzeentch is deliberately messing with him by having his gift shove alien thoughts into his head.


Ok, so stick with thirty feet if it enhances his backstory or characterization and relationship with the Four then.
My first draft put ten meters, then I switched it to feet because I used inch later on and wanted to be consistent. I really don't know what kind of measurement system the Kul use, but I'm using feet for simplicity here. I don't even know what ten paces looks like.

Let's just assume Tzeentch gives him measurements. How diabolical of him to provide free education to his followers.
 
I was going to wait until the end of this turn but if we're giving our plans, here's what I suggest for the next turn.

First, the free actions:


[ ] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Hedgewise - Halethians)
[ ] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: reach out to house Tindomiel to see about their interest and potential contributions to the Waystone Project, and about their faith and Goddess.

[ ] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn: Frost
OR
[ ] Investigate Alric personally


We are turning the coin to the face of the father and talking to some suspects next turn. I will die for this. I can see why other people may want to do other things but there will always be other things to do. There will not be a better moment - we have to strike while the iron is hot or risk the fifth face of the coin going the way of apparition binding.

As to the actual actions: I've already said why I think we should recruit the Hedgewise, and I'm sure I will post more on this when the turn vote arrives so for now I'll just leave it at that. House Tindomiel is the only magically inclined house that isn't anti empire, and I think we should reward good will rather than beg those who hate us to join our club. That said, we need to talk, both to make sure that they are actually willing and able to contribute and to ensure that Hekarti won't cause us to run into article related trouble.

As for the third action: I really do want the ward of frost. They are the ones who approached us in the first place, and they have their weird waystone trees which is unique knowledge I don't know where else we can find. This is also one of the only ways to get the forestborn on the project, which I think is nice for political and moral reasons. Like with Tindomiel, I want to get the know them before we actually recruit them. So why an exploration option? I think, since the ward of frost is ruled by a 'council of forest beings' and forestborn, we need to get to know the forest rather than any one person.

But, uh, maybe Boney will clarify that Mathilde needs to take a personal action to fulfill her obligation to investigate Alric, in which case the ward of frost will have to wait.


Second, the WEB-MAT actions:


[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands.
[ ] MAX: Learning: Gyrocopter piloting

[ ] EGRIMM: Investigate what Alric is up to
OR
[ ] EGRIMM: Learning: Take the College class on Ritual Magic
OR
[ ] EGRIMM: Learning: Take the College class on powerstone creation


@Deathbybunnies already explained why Max is perfect for studying the Lustrian books, but I want to add another reason as to why we want to do this right now: there may very well be sketches of creatures the explorer saw in Lustria, and if those sketches include their hands we may have something to add to our upcoming paper on Johann's lazer hand, which right now is looking kinda lackluster.
We also need a gyrocopter pilot, the sooner the better. Max is both extremely trustworthy and comfortable enough in his position as our subordinate to not be offended when we ask him to be our chauffeur, and those are the two basic requirements we must demand from any potential pilot. Magister Egrimm probably won't take the request as well, and Lord Magister Egrimm definitely won't, and we also knew him for a much shorter time and trust him much less than our good friend Max.

Finally, Egrimm is either going to investigate Alric,if that suffices for the purpose of placating Mira, or do something else. I think taking a lesson with Egrimm is the best use of his time right now: powerstone creation is my personal choice, as we're going to need that for our future AV research, but ritual magic is more likely to be useful to the project. But for all we know Egrimm already knows one or both of those, in which case we'll have to reconsider. I would like to point out another use of powerstone creation: powerstones are sometimes used in enchantments, and future windherding projects with Egrimm may somehow benefit from Egrimm's knowledge of powerstone (but honestly I mostly want to learn this for the AV).

Where is the Johann action, you ask? There is none. I think people are too freaked out about giving every one exactly one action every turn. The truth is, Johann is very good at what he does, but what he does is very specific: Johann is good at material science and punching things. We are currently out of things to punch or materials to science, so Johann is going to spend a turn wrestling with Kadoh or something, I'm sure he'll forgive us. Next turn we can have him take a look at the Kurgan weapons or something, but I really think both Max actions should happen now so someone has to take a breather, and Egrimm is just more versatile.


So yeah, that's my plan. As far as when to start the project, I think that after the Hedgewise we should bring in the ward of frost and a single magically inclined house, probably Tindomiel, and then we're good to go.
 
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I would probably go with ten paces for his earlier thoughts about his god granted blindsense. Thirty feet doesn't feel like a very natural thought for an empowered champion of chaos, unless they took a long and winding road from a Nuln or Altdorf institution of higher learning to get where they are. Or I suppose if Tzeentch is deliberately messing with him by having his gift shove alien thoughts into his head.


Ok, so stick with thirty feet if it enhances his backstory or characterization and relationship with the Four then.
You don't need to have higher education to use basic measurements. It's perhaps a little odd that someone from a Norscan tribe would use the same measurement as an Imperial, but it's not impossible that those measurements have spread through trade.

More odd I'd say is that he knows the exact distance at all. But I'd guess that either he tested it or Tzeentch just threw in the knowledge of how far it was out to.
 
It's perhaps a little odd that someone from a Norscan tribe would use the same measurement as an Imperial, but it's not impossible that those measurements have spread through trade.
Just to clarify, Vardek Crom is the leader of the Kul tribe of Kurgans, not a Norscan. That being said, the Kurgan do trade on the "Tea Road" and they interact with the Northern Norscans (and the Southern Baersonlings I assume).
 
I'd say we now have quite a few Imperial groups involved, but we have no non-Imperial human groups. I think at that at least we should look to get the Damsels and Ice Witches on board. They represent two old state backed magical institutions with the time, resources, and motive to have collected information on the Waystones to a degree much greater than an group within the Empire. They should both be in vastly better positions to know things than pretty much any non-Collegiate group of magic users from the Empire, and we've already tapped three groups from the Empire already, so they're less likely to have duplicative knowledge.
 
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I don't even want to start the project until we have tried to bring in all the orders, some more elven house, ice witches, and hedgewise
I really don't want to bring all the Orders, at least not before beginning the project. I'm a bit tired of waiting to begin, and would like to do so next turn or the one after that. Waiting to recruit all 8 Colleges AND other groups would take us 2-3 turns before even laying the first stone (metaphorically speaking) of the project. Also, Thorek and the people we already brought will probably not take well to being ignored for years.

Furthermore, I don't think all of them have relevant knowledge, the Light, Jade and Amber are the most likely to have something and we are busy recruiting 2 of those. Recruiting other non-Collegial human spellcasters or elvish houses sounds like a more judicious time investment.
 
For Egrimm, I don't think having him investigate Alric would be a good idea. He's good at what he does, but resents Alric. I don't think he would enjoy having to deal with him again. Plus Egrimm likely is nowhere near as stealthy as Mathilde, and I would rather not get caught
 
For Egrimm, I don't think having him investigate Alric would be a good idea. He's good at what he does, but resents Alric. I don't think he would enjoy having to deal with him again. Plus Egrimm likely is nowhere near as stealthy as Mathilde, and I would rather not get caught
Possibly "investigating with Egrimm" would consist of Mathilde going into the field solo and constantly picking Egrimm's brains about Alric's methods and what a given action might mean?
 
[ ] MAX: Learning: Gyrocopter piloting
I really would advocate for Mathilde to learn together with max on how to pilot the thing. He will want to do his own things at some point and then we will have to do this again.
Being able to fly the damn thing ourself gives us a bit more independence in tricky situation where we might not want to involve anyone else.
 
When it comes to recruiting a personal pilot, I really liked the idea some people proposed of trying to poach Adela for the job, it would be fun to have a secondary wizard character in that position if we ever have to do a crazy gyrocopter deployement of the WEB-MAT Wizards one day.
 
When it comes to recruiting a personal pilot, I really liked the idea some people proposed of trying to poach Adela for the job, it would be fun to have a secondary wizard character in that position if we ever have to do a crazy gyrocopter deployement of the WEB-MAT Wizards one day.
I'm OK with that too, I'm just insistent on matilda knowing it too. It's too valuable a skill not too have.
 
well, unless you live in a town with exceptionally unsalted peanuts, I guess
Funnily enough, I do. There's a couple of establishments that literally give out all natural unsalted (and partially unpeeled) peanuts. Some people like them, but I really don't.

I also am the kind of person who eats the salt off of twiglets and had a phase where I would eat (small amounts) of crystal salt as if it were candy, so my perception might be skewed.
-[ ] EGRIMM: Investigate what Alric is up to.
Let's please not do that. It's one thing to steal him away from a boss he doesn't like. It's another to then ask him to then turn around and screw over his old master.

How would he even go about doing it? Pretend he's done with us and returning?


Also, I want to add my voice to those that wish to first do an Ingratiate and/or Investigate option on Houses before hiring them. We know literally nothing about them other than a blurb based on third hand gossip and/or whatever the Queen's men wanted us to think. Like, there are two Hoeth Houses. One is isolationist and one is racist. But how much of a problem actually are either of those?
 
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Would rather do windherding with Egrimm than pick his brain over Alric. That seems the sort of thing that could both greatly improve the colleges capabilities, as well as give us an actual card in our hand for the Waystones. And one held by Mathilde personally given we would be the first to prove it viable, and probably one of a very very small number with good enough windsight to pull it off. Granted, probably not a card equal to ancient secrets, but a card nonetheless.
 
Any learning action involves Mathilte learning to gyrocopter aswell iirc.

Also the perfect is the enemy of the good. Once we get the project ball rolling, we'll start getting results that can guide us to what information we need or what groups might be useful to us. Pulling in the dwarves we're here for and the Orders to pretend we understand our slice of the pie was vital, everyone else is a "nice-to-have-maybe".

We've still got to take an action on examining waystones ourselves - do that before chasing down half the magical traditions of the Old World.
 
I'm actually not clear on how learning WEB-MAT actions work in that regard. Boney said that if we send our wizards to take college lessons we can learn along, if I remember correctly. If the same applies to piloting lessons than there's no problem, but I don't know if that's the case.

I also see no way that Adela gives up her job in K8P just for the great honor that is being our pilot. Max makes sense, because he works for us and often needs to be close to us anyway, but if Adela is our pilot she'll end up spending months away from K8P on a regular basis.

Also, I want to add my voice to those that wish to first do an Ingratiate and/or Investigate option on Houses before hiring them. We know literally nothing about them other than a blurb based on third hand gossip and/or whatever the Queen's men wanted us to think. Like, there are two Hoeth Houses. One is isolationist and one is racist. But how much of a problem actually are either of those?
I would like to talk to literally anyone else before we talk to the houses that voted against contact with the empire. As I said, I think good will should be answered by good will.
I also hope that once we recruit a 'friendly' house - probably Tindomiel - that will make future interaction with houses easier, since we'll now have someone that understand Eonir politics to tell us what's the score.
 
One thing I do not see mentioned is that after we start the project it's going to be less useful to recruit new members as I understand it. @Boney made a post about that but... They do kinda vanish and looking through all of them is very tedious, so I don't know how exactly it was worded (if you could clarify boney that would be nice.)
 
I think we need to do the get to know them action for the elf clans and non-imperial groups before recruiting. Unlike the dwarfs and imperials we don't know or be able to guess at what they want.

We need to rub shoulders next turn.

I'm, me, Jyn… am willing to not vote AV if it is for a full turn of talking to elve clans and hedgewise.

I don't think we have a big enough foot in the door to get the ice witches or damsels any time soon. Sadly.
 
One thing I do not see mentioned is that after we start the project it's going to be less useful to recruit new members as I understand it. @Boney made a post about that but... They do kinda vanish and looking through all of them is very tedious, so I don't know how exactly it was worded (if you could clarify boney that would be nice.)
It's the difference between having a system in mind as part of the multi compatibility in the creation of an app, and importing an PC app to Apple after the code was written.

Possible, good even, but not easy or pretty.
 
3 is waaaay to many, especially given it does seem that everyone approach is going to want *something* from us, and costs are rising the less relations we have (see - the Lights we're probably going to have to give an action, but the dwarfs we just needed to stake some influence and reputation)
I didn't know we were in a hurry.
I don't even want to start the project until we have tried to bring in all the orders, some more elven house, ice witches, and hedgewise
I don't think we need more Orders. They don't seem to know anything of note that the already present ones don't. If they want to join they can approach us. The only exception would be the Ambers, but much like others brought up regarding that Light ritualist, I am happy to wait with recruiting them until after we are actually doing excursions to multiple Waystones across the land.

As for the Ice Witches, I think I'd be okay with waiting until we have something to show for them. But I'm okay either way.
Also, Thorek and the people we already brought will probably not take well to being ignored for years.
Thorek is a Dwarf. A busy Dwarf. A busy Dwarf whose favors we already enacted. If anyone is willing to wait a few years before starting the project in earnest it's him.
I would like to talk to literally anyone else before we talk to the houses that voted against contact with the empire. As I said, I think good will should be answered by good will.
I also hope that once we recruit a 'friendly' house - probably Tindomiel - that will make future interaction with houses easier, since we'll now have someone that understand Eonir politics to tell us what's the score.
No matter what some of our superiors would like, our mission here is not primarily that of being a diplomatic outreach on behalf of the Empire's economy and leadership. Our mission is figuring out Waystones. So if some of the scientists we collaborate with are the types to vote to Build A Wall then so be it.

As for one House making future interactions easier due to sharing their understanding, I find that very optimistic. Any House in such a position would more likely than not present a biased and maybe even insincere overview of the rest of the Houses. I'd go so far as to say that we should definitely recruit at least two Houses simultaneously, preferably not from the same political bloc (though also not outright rivals).
 
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I really don't want to bring all the Orders, at least not before beginning the project. I'm a bit tired of waiting to begin, and would like to do so next turn or the one after that. Waiting to recruit all 8 Colleges AND other groups would take us 2-3 turns before even laying the first stone (metaphorically speaking) of the project. Also, Thorek and the people we already brought will probably not take well to being ignored for years.

Furthermore, I don't think all of them have relevant knowledge, the Light, Jade and Amber are the most likely to have something and we are busy recruiting 2 of those. Recruiting other non-Collegial human spellcasters or elvish houses sounds like a more judicious time investment.
I am fine waiting(tbh the dwarves and elves are only gonna get annoyed if it been a decade and still we haven't done anything they are fine for us to taking our time( cause I really really want to do this right considering the grand importance of the project so I want to get as many people we have onboard as we can. Their indication the amethyst might have some stuff on waystone from sylvania but futhermore for this project I want to have a expert on every wind here(no elves aren't the same) so that when we do this
[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
In theory, the more members there currently are, the more complete this framework will be.
we will have the most complete framework we can get and if we don't have every order on board which bring with them an expert level understanding(any magister is a expert on their wind) on their wind then it most likely going to be incomplete in some way.

I don't think we need more Orders. They don't seem to know anything of note that the already present ones don't. If they want to join they can approach us. The only exception would be the Ambers, but much like that Light ritualist, I am happy to wait with recruiting them until after we are actually doing excursions to multiple Waystones across the land.
ambers def have stuff with waystone then I refer to my argument above
 
No matter what some of our superiors would like, our mission here is not primarily that of being a diplomatic outreach on behalf of the Empire's economy and leadership. Our mission is figuring out Waystones. So if some of the scientists we collaborate with are the types to vote to Build A Wall then so be it.
And no matter what we would like, the people joining the project are not truth seekers dedicated to the betterment of the world through research. They are political actors, with political goals, that may or may not care about the Waystones very much (one of the Hoeth houses does, iirc, not sure about the other). We will need the cooperation of various factions in this project, and setting a precedent that you can screw us over and still get a seat at the table as long as you have something to offer is a bad idea, imo.

At the end of a day we're not going to recruit all the houses because there are a lot of them and we would like to start this project sometime before the end of the decade (IRL as well as in quest). If we somehow find out that one specific house has the key secret knowledge that is crucial to success of our project then sure, recruit them even if they Druchii, whatever. But until then, every action spent on a house that isn't interested in relations with an empire is an action that could be spent on friendlier houses, or on non-elven factions, or on any of the million different projects Mathilde has going on at any given moment. And less friendly houses are probably going to be more difficult to recruit, which could easily incur an even heavier cost in actions.

And yes, we're going to get biased knowledge, but Mathilde is no stranger to parsing out truth from opinion, just look at her musings on the turn we took the exploration actions.
For what it's worth, I do think we should recruit two different Eonir factions - Tindomiel and the ward of frost, giving us both a cityborn and a forestborn perspective,
 
Any learning action involves Mathilte learning to gyrocopter aswell iirc.

Also the perfect is the enemy of the good. Once we get the project ball rolling, we'll start getting results that can guide us to what information we need or what groups might be useful to us. Pulling in the dwarves we're here for and the Orders to pretend we understand our slice of the pie was vital, everyone else is a "nice-to-have-maybe".

We've still got to take an action on examining waystones ourselves - do that before chasing down half the magical traditions of the Old World.
Yeah, we can always add them later.

I am fine waiting(tbh the dwarves and elves are only gonna get annoyed if it been a decade and still we haven't done anything they are fine for us to taking our time( cause I really really want to do this right considering the grand importance of the project so I want to get as many people we have onboard as we can. Their indication the amethyst might have some stuff on waystone from sylvania but futhermore for this project I want to have a expert on every wind here(no elves aren't the same) so that when we do this
[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
In theory, the more members there currently are, the more complete this framework will be.
we will have the most complete framework we can get and if we don't have every order on board which bring with them an expert level understanding(any magister is a expert on their wind) on their wind then it most likely going to be incomplete in some way.
Personally I really want to begin working, we can always add more members later to complete the framework. Having a better idea of what we're dealing with will be useful is choosing what is necessary. Recruiting all the Colleges isn't necessary to begin the project, and if we already know things about the Waystones we will have more leverage to convince them.

Also, if the Elves and Dwarfs will probably be ok with waiting a few years, the humans will probably be less ok with that. Asking for help with the project then continuing to recruit for years without doing anything more won't fly well with our fellow wizards.
[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
In theory, the more members there currently are, the more complete this framework will be. Will unlock further investigations. Can be repeated if desired, but will not unlock anything new after the first time, it will just make a new framework incorporating any new recruits.
 
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