Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think they also said they might have a partial map of Waystones in the Empire somewhere?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Earth
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
None of our employees are running the project and organising everyone else like Mathilde is, which is my point.
The project has always been described as Mathilde running around bringing more viewpoints and ancient scraps of lore in, so I'm not sure why you're surprised?
Panoramia thought that the Ambers knew more than they let on, too - I think we definitely should be bringing them in at some point. Not necessarily before the start of the Project, though.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Well, in a case similar to the current one we'd first have to learn who they are. Back before the social turns (and during the Karag Dum expedition) there was a turn to aid and simultaneously hang out with someone, which simultaneously also gave us quite a bit of insight into who they are (or pretend to be) and mechanically it would some times do things like reveal stats and traits (beyond whatever other effects based on hidden Diplo rolls).
I was only advocating for such an action due to that part, seeing it as the more direct and personal mirror to the "investigate" action that trades a chance of finding potentially hidden and unflattering info for a chance of making a friend or ally.
But maybe that's just a misconception on my part. In which case I'll stop suggesting it as a course of action I guess. Even if it feels weird not to mingle with Houses we aren't yet sure we want to outright recruit.
You were saying how a personal Waystone investigation action would be pointless if we do the foundational group action in the same turn. Implying that we'd probably be doing said foundatiinal action next turn, thus not wanting the personal investigation one at the same time. I don't want the foundational action next turn because no Elf House will possibly be a definite lock-in by then.
Maybe I jumped ahead a bit in my thoughts.
My shortlist of additional recruits for right now is House Tindomiel, the Halethan Hedgewise and maybe one of the Hoeth Houses (which one would have to be determined). I believe that with the first two many agree with me, though maybe not with the additional Hoeth House.
A few others have expressed wanting the Ice Witches, the Damsels, and the Amber Order, but I don't know how big that voter faction is. Personally I'd be more than willing to wait till we have something concrete to entice them with, but I wouldn't stand in the way of recruiting the Ice Witches before that.
I've seen one or two hoping for something over the top like recruiting all eight Colleges and multiple Hedgewise factions. But I don't think that's realistic or has the momentum to pass any vote.
So all in all, outside the "start right now" faction winning, I'd expect us to start after two to six more recruitments while my personal preference would be three. That's not a "no end in sight" proposition IMO.
As I said later in the post you are quoting the issue is there is no feedback, there has been a lot of running around from Mathilde and a lot of very serious talking but no indication of what if anything it has achieved. There is no indication of if we have done right or wrong, if we need to change anything, if we need a particular bit of lore. It feels a lit like spinning wheels in mid air.
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think you are thinking of the Amethysts with the partial map
the ambers seem to know a lot and aren't really hiding that they know a lot so we should def get them onboard the project
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I see, I was replying to Deathbybunnies who originally suggested taking the lay the foundation and personal investigation actions on the same turn. Personally I don't want to do either next turn and I agree with you. My minimum for taking lay the foundation is at least one elf house at least one college and at least one runelord on board. We're only at 2/3 right now.
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Sounds like setting up a action committee to me.
You would learn more about them as a direct and inevitable result of having spent a bunch of time directly involved in whatever it is they care about. If you absolutely must, you can interpret that as 'revealing stats and traits'.
Sure that is what it is IC, and it is also a lot of set up with (so far) no pay off.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Oh, I misunderstood you, apologies. Yes, I agree that we ought to get started soon, as soon as we have an Elven House or two onboard.
Yes, because we are setting things up, this takes time and effort. We could have started last turn with one rune lord and the Grey lords but that would have been half assed and humans would be pretty much completely out of it (our little party knows Jack and shit about waystones except "much mana go through, and don't poke with stick") we are recruiting the lights and the jades because they have pertinent knowledge, we want to recruit the elf houses and the Hedgewise because they were indicated to have some expertise in the general or specialised fields. We might want recruit the damsels and the ice witches because both are inherently bound to their land and have thus probably knowledge about the wind flowing under it or the way stones standing atop of it.
Why this sounds unreasonable to you I have no clue...
*sigh* This feels repetitive to answer and I really do not want to annoy @Boney by harping on, so I will just say this: my concerns are with OOC pacing not IC thoroughness.
Though luck then, this was always going to be a looooong preparation arc because it's such a massive undertaking.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I guess I don't share your feeling. Due to a couple of reasons.
One, every recruitment till now had some clear indication, reading between the lines, that the group in question has something to bring to the table. So I am not worried about progress being made. This is actually why I am more wary of recruiting Tindomiel and the Halethans blindly.
Two, no matter who we recruit I don't think that it will provide too much instant progress regardless. But the way Boney has portrayed magic to work, especially when it comes to wildly differing Human paradigms, I think that a variety of perspectives will help quite a bit on their own, even if their secrets seem to overlap and be if minor value at first.
Three, I really don't want the Humans to just be perceived as dead weight Imperial baggage that Hatalath and Thorek have to carry due to politics, so every little bit counts, including not only having College Wizards represent humanity. Especially because Thorek actually does not know as much about Waystones as the Dwarves think. And because we aren't currently planning on hiring any Runesmiths other than Thorek, which might well bit us in the ass politically.
I actually would have loved to see what we would need to do to get kragg to even contemplate stepping into an elven forest...
- Location
- Utrecht
We have an anvil of doom, captured from one of the sieges of Tor Alessi, come and pick it up if you want it.
... Should really have specified. We want him there peacefully. Not him burning the Forrest down...
This turn, we sort of combined the "ingratiating" action with Max's WEB-MAT action to befriend House Miriel. Do you think we could do the same with the houses we want to recruit to save AP?
Specifically, I'm thinking of bringing Egrimm along to ingrate with House Tindomiel, sort of to compare magic traditions. A Light and a Grey Lord Magister and the Elven Goddess of Magic. Does that sound slightly workable? Then we can use a second action to recruit them the same turn.
Also, do you think we could have the EIC poke House Miriel for trade stuff, or maybe we should go through House Mardil first, as they are both the trading house and open to outsiders?
Specifically, I'm thinking of bringing Egrimm along to ingrate with House Tindomiel, sort of to compare magic traditions. A Light and a Grey Lord Magister and the Elven Goddess of Magic. Does that sound slightly workable? Then we can use a second action to recruit them the same turn.
Also, do you think we could have the EIC poke House Miriel for trade stuff, or maybe we should go through House Mardil first, as they are both the trading house and open to outsiders?
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
If we are going to offer the elves the new top-of-the-line human repeater guns, I'd prefer to say so quietly to the elector count and have them filtered in through him. It means he owes us a favor too, the EIC gets two new markets instead of one, and it doesn't undermine the ulrican/elven connections they are starting to build.
'Good people' is quite subjective: pretty much everyone thinks they are the hero of their own story. In that sense, I'm almost more interested in talking to the 'bad' or anti-human factions, because knowing how they still see themselves as good while doing this stuff gets us a LOT more leverage and options than just touching base w people favorably disposed towards us.
I'm enjoying this exploratory period, where we, a human, are welcome in Laurelorn and are being courted by the houses. It's not going to get any better than this, so let's stretch the "benefit of the doubt" period out to establish ties and commitments that will keep Laurelorn engaged even if the project fails.
This is a project for the rest of our lives. What is the rush, besides ooc restlessness? There are other stories if this one is grating on you right now, but again- I don't think we are in a position to 'complete' this project and move on to something else, so acting like that is the goal seems to me like rushing through a vacation to get back to work.
Not sure what you are thinking is going to be a "payoff". Building a new waystone? Idk if that is even possible, and anything short of that could be regarded as buildup.
I really liked seeing how the cult of Vaul worked, and meeting the young elven daughter, and the interactions between the queen and the grey lord. I'm interested in headpats for sure, but I don't think they are going to be coming from showing the elves that we are super skilled and competent- we are competing with grey lords on that front. So I think being friendly and useful and adorable is our best bet- more an unofficial ambassador than a researcher.
Plus, there are other tasks would like to take on, with the expectation that the waystone project will not be complete when we look away from it to do them. Mad Dog Pass, the Ulithan vacation, the chaos orcs- I'd like to put a hand in on all of these, which sort of demands that we regard the waystone project as something to be worked on at a rational pace. We have responsibilities to Pan, and the library, and Eike, and the EIC. We aren't going to finish the waystone project in time to go with on those after, so we need to plan on them all happening while we are doing waystones.
'Good people' is quite subjective: pretty much everyone thinks they are the hero of their own story. In that sense, I'm almost more interested in talking to the 'bad' or anti-human factions, because knowing how they still see themselves as good while doing this stuff gets us a LOT more leverage and options than just touching base w people favorably disposed towards us.
I'm enjoying this exploratory period, where we, a human, are welcome in Laurelorn and are being courted by the houses. It's not going to get any better than this, so let's stretch the "benefit of the doubt" period out to establish ties and commitments that will keep Laurelorn engaged even if the project fails.
This is a project for the rest of our lives. What is the rush, besides ooc restlessness? There are other stories if this one is grating on you right now, but again- I don't think we are in a position to 'complete' this project and move on to something else, so acting like that is the goal seems to me like rushing through a vacation to get back to work.
Not sure what you are thinking is going to be a "payoff". Building a new waystone? Idk if that is even possible, and anything short of that could be regarded as buildup.
I really liked seeing how the cult of Vaul worked, and meeting the young elven daughter, and the interactions between the queen and the grey lord. I'm interested in headpats for sure, but I don't think they are going to be coming from showing the elves that we are super skilled and competent- we are competing with grey lords on that front. So I think being friendly and useful and adorable is our best bet- more an unofficial ambassador than a researcher.
Plus, there are other tasks would like to take on, with the expectation that the waystone project will not be complete when we look away from it to do them. Mad Dog Pass, the Ulithan vacation, the chaos orcs- I'd like to put a hand in on all of these, which sort of demands that we regard the waystone project as something to be worked on at a rational pace. We have responsibilities to Pan, and the library, and Eike, and the EIC. We aren't going to finish the waystone project in time to go with on those after, so we need to plan on them all happening while we are doing waystones.
Actually doing the thing for which the project is named. I am not expecting completion anytime soon, hell the story of how we failed the waystone project and it is impossible would be interesting, a tragedy IC, but it would be something we can grapple with nonetheless. The issue is with not having any idea how well or poorly this is going because we hesitate to go beyond the first stage and actually get those answers.
Are we confusing political recruitment with magical recruitment?
Right now, we first need enough magic experts just to get a good range of Waystones research opportunities. Besides Light and Jade and Thorek, Mathilde likely needs elven magic expertise (Tindomiel) and at least one non-College human tradition (Hedgewise, Damsels, or Ice Witches). With that much she could plausibly start Project research.
Once research starts, Mathilde should turn to gathering political allies, to back her when her work gets expensive or dangerous. We've got human and dwarf connections, but we're in elf country. We should begin Mathilde's political backer list with the elves who reached out to her: the Ward of Frost.
So that could be:
Turn Next: Tindomiel and Nordlander Hedgewise, using the Father
Turn After Next: Damsels and Ice Witches, using Gambler on the Damsels
Turn The Third: start the research framework, using Gambler, and recruit the Ward of Frost as the first of several political allies.
Right now, we first need enough magic experts just to get a good range of Waystones research opportunities. Besides Light and Jade and Thorek, Mathilde likely needs elven magic expertise (Tindomiel) and at least one non-College human tradition (Hedgewise, Damsels, or Ice Witches). With that much she could plausibly start Project research.
Once research starts, Mathilde should turn to gathering political allies, to back her when her work gets expensive or dangerous. We've got human and dwarf connections, but we're in elf country. We should begin Mathilde's political backer list with the elves who reached out to her: the Ward of Frost.
So that could be:
Turn Next: Tindomiel and Nordlander Hedgewise, using the Father
Turn After Next: Damsels and Ice Witches, using Gambler on the Damsels
Turn The Third: start the research framework, using Gambler, and recruit the Ward of Frost as the first of several political allies.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I was a bit loose with my use if that phrase. Thus the quotation marks. Or something. I don't know, it made sense in my head. All I meant by it was that they are people we can stomach working with us based on multiple metrics IC and OOC.