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@BoneyM A hypothetical question - what happens to a College's Patriarch/Matriarch if one of their Wizards Lords somehow wins the position of Supreme Patriarch? Do they get replaced or keep their position since it's technically separate?

For example, Dragomas is currently both Supreme Patriarch + the Amber's Patriarch. But what happens to Algard if Mathilde jumps ahead and becomes Supreme Matriarch?

[x] Wizard
-[X] The Grey Order
-[x] The Golden Order
 
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@BoneyM A hypothetical question - what happens to a College's Patriarch/Matriarch if one of their Wizards Lords somehow wins the position of Supreme Patriarch? Do they get replaced or keep their position since it's technically separate?

For example, Dragomas is currently both Supreme Patriarch + the Amber's Patriarch. But what happens to Algard if Mathilde jumps ahead and becomes Supreme Matriarch?

They don't automatically become head of the College from becoming Supreme, but there is an expectation (though not the requirement) that the head will step down in favour of them.
 
My best guess is that demonstrating good integrity by declining to push her claim to Stirland against a fresh-to-the-job Roswita was seen as particularly admirable and desirable, and marrying her didn't step on any toes.
Personally Luitpold might have found that attractive, but that doesn't seem like much of a political consideration.
As far as I can tell there was no political benefit. And seeing how they were interacting when we first met her as a Heidi it seems to me like Luitpold just genuinely loves her.
So she actually used seduction. That does make it a bit more icky, yeah.

Meh, whatever.
They don't automatically become head of the College from becoming Supreme, but there is an expectation (though not the requirement) that the head will step down in favour of them.
Doesn't a Supreme have enough responsibilities that he or she would rather not also be running a College?
 
With the WoG explaining more about Shallya's cult and how it's not as if Eike would be pushed into not doing self-care or something toxic like that, most of my objection to that option is gone.

I still think Grey Order is ideal, but Eike should know that the clergy at least might be an option, even if we're not entirely sure about the mechanics of it all.
The other issue with them is that the EIC is involved in gunpowder, crossbow, and rifle production, and that goes a bit beyond Shallya's 'stout walking stick' stricture, depending on how directly you interpret the ownership and production of weapons.
 
They don't automatically become head of the College from becoming Supreme, but there is an expectation (though not the requirement) that the head will step down in favour of them.
For a canon example, according to Realms of Sorcery, there were several years where Balthazar Gelt was Supreme Patriarch while the head of the Gold Order was Feldmann (who we met) before Feldmann disappeared a year before the Storm of Chaos.
 
Doesn't a Supreme have enough responsibilities that he or she would rather not also be running a College?
If they were the sort of person that thought that way, they wouldn't be throwing down with the Supreme in the first place.
Plus, that could go bad fast (politically)

Can you imagine the nightmare of a term where your own college is giving you shit? because if SP's own college isn't playing ball, then non of them will or they will look very weak.

that's a formula for the first sitting duck SP.
 
If they were the sort of person that thought that way, they wouldn't be throwing down with the Supreme in the first place.
Well, of you're really into prestige and/or buddying up to the Emperor and/or want to implement changes in policy that affect all Wizards and/or dislike the current Supreme and have the magical might to beat them, but aren't actually all that much into running a College and/or think that your Parenarch in particular actually is a respectable person that does a good job, I could see this happening. But I guess that's not been the norm in the relatively short lifespan of the Colleges.
 
Well, of you're really into prestige and/or buddying up to the Emperor and/or want to implement changes in policy that affect all Wizards and/or dislike the current Supreme and have the magical might to beat them, but aren't actually all that much into running a College and/or think that your Parenarch in particular actually is a respectable person that does a good job, I could see this happening. But I guess that's not been the norm in the relatively short lifespan of the Colleges.
again, that would be way to dangerous of a move to not take over.

part of the agenda-setting/Policy pushing power of the SP is that you are essentially holding both the executive and 1/8 of the legislative/council? (which are in their own right an Executive and legislative council... but let's not go down that hole.)

you would be giving up a very, very solded chunk of what actually lets you push policy through the door. one disagreement with your patriarch or a difference in agenda you didn't expect and you will have problems a normal SP would not.

I mean, if you actually want to be a sitting duck SP, then it's a good idea. but not if you are trying to do stuff.
 
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Interesting as Hedi is she is not likely to show up anytime soon so I would rather focus on the other Imperial ally we are not entirely sure of in terms of motivations, Wilhelmina.

I'm going to preface this by saying that it is going off very scarce information so it might be entirely off base. Still here it is:
  1. Eike was very reserved and trying to be polite at all times, acting like a miniature adult other than a couple of times with wolf and then the shadow horse
  2. She treated questions as tests and did not like showing ignorance by asking the wrong questions of the dwarfs
  3. By the same token she referred to Wilhelmina informally which is an indication of some warmth between
  4. Lastly her visit was not entirely free of childish rebellion, as seen by the fact that she tried to take the stairs alone
So from what we have seen of Eike I think it is safe to deduce that her grandmother is very demanding, but not outright abusive (even by modern standards not just what would be recognized IC).
 
By the way, does the person that challenges and beats the Supreme automatically get the post for eight years or do they first have to also defend the freshly gained title against all challengers? Because otherwise I could imagine a scenario where some hyperspecialized Wizard beats a Supreme with that one weird trick and tuen gets to rule for eight years despite not actually being better than most.

Plus, that could go bad fast (politically)

Can you imagine the nightmare of a term where your own college is giving you shit? because if SP's own college isn't playing ball, then non of them will or they will look very weak.

that's a formula for the first sitting duck SP.
If you can beat the Supreme you can probably oust your own College head. Not taking over would happen because the new Supreme has a good existing relationship with their former boss.
again, that would be way to dangerous of a move to not take over.

part of the agenda-setting/Policy pushing power of the SP is that you are essentially holding both the executive and 1/8 of the legislative/council? (which are in their own right an Executive and legislative council... but let's not go down that hole.)

you would be giving up a very, very solded chunk of what actually lets you push policy through the door. one disagreement with your patriarch or a difference in agenda you didn't expect and you will have problems a normal SP would not.

I mean, if you actually want to be a sitting duck SP, then it's a good idea. but not if you are trying to do stuff.
I don't think that this is in any way a good analogy. The Supreme Parenarch's power doesn't come from the College "legislature". If it did, holding 1/8th of it wouldn't actually accomplish much of anything and they'd still have to convince another 4 to have a majority, so a sitting duck example would just have one more to convince. But no, the Supreme's power comes from having the backing of the Emperor, tradition and the Articles.
The first obedience of every Magister must be to the ideals and laws of Sigmar's Holy Empire of which these Articles form a part; then to he who is rightfully elected Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire; then to the Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic; then to the laws and ideals of their Order; then to the Patriarch of their Order; then to the authorities that each Magister may be required to serve in the course of his duties; then to other superiors within their Orders.
Disobeying the Supreme just because your College head told you to is a breach of the Articles. Hell, the Supreme could sanction a Grey's money making scheme or allow an Amethyst to inherit.

Practically of course a Supreme that just tries to push unpopular stuff through would have a hard time of it, similar to an Emperor trying to tell EC's to do stuff they all really don't want to. But still, they don't need the loyal backing of any one College to do stuff, not even their own. And on the flip side, if one College really hates something then it won't be all that easy to enforce it even of the other seven are more or less okay with it and the Supreme's own College likes it a lot. Voting never enters the equation except if the Supreme is an eccentric that likes to formally poll his colleagues before enacting new policy.
By the same token she referred to Wilhelmina informally which is an indication of some warmth between
This isn't assured. Wilhelmina might just insist on the informal title.
 
I don't know anything, so I'll just be throwing more votes onto the pile. I guess.

- [x] The Grey Order
- [X] Let Eike decide
- [x] The Golden Order
[x] Clergy
[X] Neutral
 
By the way, does the person that challenges and beats the Supreme automatically get the post for eight years or do they first have to also defend the freshly gained title against all challengers? Because otherwise I could imagine a scenario where some hyperspecialized Wizard beats a Supreme with that one weird trick and tuen gets to rule for eight years despite not actually being better than most.
The challenge for Supreme Patriarch is, IIRC, a free-for-all between the previous Supreme and all of the challengers. As such, the winner gets the post for the next eight years and also don't have to worry about being in charge of somebody they didn't come out the better against.
 
By the way, does the person that challenges and beats the Supreme automatically get the post for eight years or do they first have to also defend the freshly gained title against all challengers? Because otherwise I could imagine a scenario where some hyperspecialized Wizard beats a Supreme with that one weird trick and tuen gets to rule for eight years despite not actually being better than most.

The duels continue until people stop making challenges. If someone wins without actually displaying superior skill then there's sure to suddenly be a lot more challengers.

I don't think being the head of a College is necessarily a duel.

Each College has its own internal mechanisms to select a leader, and only some of them include duels.
 
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Returning to Eike, Boney, did you roll for her faith in Shallya, or did you pick it?

Because if you rolled it, and now she's likely going to a collage full of Ranaldians... well, lets just say it looks like Ranald has been setting this up for a long time now.

Gods, what if she meets Mandred? That'll be wild. A Ranaldian Prince and a Shallyan Shadow Wizard, there's a joke for the history books. I wonder if they'll be friends or rivals?

The duels continue until people stop making challenges. If someone wins without actually displaying superior skill then there's sure to suddenly be a lot more challengers.

So if someone beats Dagomas with one weird trick, it's open season? I'm not sure if we should, but I'm confident we can at least give a decent attempt against anyone who's not Dagomas.

Then again, not sure I like the idea of going toe to toe with someone like Elspeth, and I imagine each collage has a couple of badasses like that.
 
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