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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Wizard
- [X] Let Eike decide

This is probably the best opportunity for a narratively appropriate apprentice. Buuuut I want Eike to at least choose Colleges, since most of her life has already been written out for her by adults.
 
Changing my vote, removing the Grey one. Wont be sad if she becomes a Grey but I like to give her more agency.
And while I would like to have her as an apprentice I dont really want her to be a Grey. Nothing to do with Poverty Vow, but the fact she will be a trained assassin, basically secret police, even if she never act on it. Maybe Im wrong but Grey seems even more "antisocial" than other wizards, Mathilde doesnt care for it but I want Eike to have a chance to mingle in "social games", shes being trained for it.

But of course, I want her to choose.


[X] Wizard
- [X] Let Eike decide
 
[X] Wizard
-[X] Let Eike decide

This is probably the single most impactful decision of her life, so let's give her a bit of agency in it.
 
13th Bee said:
APPRENTICE APPRENTICE APPRENTICE APPRENTICE APPRENTICE!
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And we can take an apprentice whenever we like. If we didn't have the clout or the rank to pick and choose as we pleased, then Eike would likely be the best we have access to. But we have our pick of the litter and we need only ask. Sneaks with unconventional talents, daring geniuses with new and radical ideas, the curious and cunning seeking to build ties in the world, the worldly and wise in search of pieces of a puzzle. Or just kids in need of a parental figure. We could take any apprentice we want under our wing, and we'd have everyone's blessing to do so. I can't say who we take on, by what metrics we would judge them, or what personalities we would find suitable. But with our charm, wit, and experience with grumps, dramatics, sneaks, and ducklings, I'm sure we'd build a beautiful relationship to cherish.
 
NeonLights said:
And we can take an apprentice whenever we like. If we didn't have the clout or the rank to pick and choose as we pleased, then Eike would likely be the best we have access to. But we have our pick of the litter and we need only ask. Sneaks with unconventional talents, daring geniuses with new and radical ideas, the curious and cunning seeking to build ties in the world, the worldly and wise in search of pieces of a puzzle. Or just kids in need of a parental figure. We could take any apprentice we want under our wing, and we'd have everyone's blessing to do so. I can't say who we take on, by what metrics we would judge them, or what personalities we would find suitable. But with our charm, wit, and experience with grumps, dramatics, sneaks, and ducklings, I'm sure we'd build a beautiful relationship to cherish.
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Sure, but this is way more narrative interesting than just some random character created specifically to be our apprentice.
 
NeonLights said:
And we can take an apprentice whenever we like. If we didn't have the clout or the rank to pick and choose as we pleased, then Eike would likely be the best we have access to. But we have our pick of the litter and we need only ask. Sneaks with unconventional talents, daring geniuses with new and radical ideas, the curious and cunning seeking to build ties in the world, the worldly and wise in search of pieces of a puzzle. Or just kids in need of a parental figure. We could take any apprentice we want under our wing, and we'd have everyone's blessing to do so. I can't say who we take on, by what metrics we would judge them, or what personalities we would find suitable. But with our charm, wit, and experience with grumps, dramatics, sneaks, and ducklings, I'm sure we'd build a beautiful relationship to cherish.
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We can... but that doesn't mean that we will. This seems to be the best chance to get one, so I'm voting for it. I wasn't around then, but the lesson that snek juice has imparted remains strong. I don't want to wait around for maybes in the future when there's already a chance today.

Also Mathilde getting an apprentice means more apprentice time flashbacks which means more material for me to work with.
 
Is there anything preventing a Grey Eike from simply partnering up with a Gold to act as the public figurehead, a financial advisor/examiner, or even have them form a subsidiary of the EIC, presuming that option exists, that is more approachable due to the realtive distance from the Heir?
 
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NuclearConsensus said:
We can... but that doesn't mean that we will. This seems to be the best chance to get one, so I'm voting for it. I wasn't around then, but the lesson that snek juice has imparted remains strong. I don't want to wait around for maybes in the future when there's already a chance today.

Also Mathilde getting an apprentice means more apprentice time flashbacks which means more material for me to work with.
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I for one have absolutely no interest in going apprentice shopping, I find it a boring and distracting prospect of picking a character off the shelf and proclaiming that they must now be important. Without any other narrative connection I would resent the time spent on this new random tangent hence why I would argue against getting one.
 
Well, if this vote shows one thing, it's that Mathilde tried very, very hard to be neutral and present the facts to Wilhelmina in an honest, unbiased way.

For all of two seconds.

Which, for the record, is a very long time to consider not recommending wizardry. And of course Eike should be the one to make the decision, she knows herself the best, and it wouldn't do to go to an Order she's unsuited for, of course, and by the way we rode back here together on this really handy shadowhorse and Eike can tell you all about how we made the trip in a week and there's this really handy lensing cantrip you can use to observe distant objects and make fires and...
 
NeonLights said:
And we can take an apprentice whenever we like. If we didn't have the clout or the rank to pick and choose as we pleased, then Eike would likely be the best we have access to. But we have our pick of the litter and we need only ask. Sneaks with unconventional talents, daring geniuses with new and radical ideas, the curious and cunning seeking to build ties in the world, the worldly and wise in search of pieces of a puzzle. Or just kids in need of a parental figure. We could take any apprentice we want under our wing, and we'd have everyone's blessing to do so. I can't say who we take on, by what metrics we would judge them, or what personalities we would find suitable. But with our charm, wit, and experience with grumps, dramatics, sneaks, and ducklings, I'm sure we'd build a beautiful relationship to cherish.
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Literally half the reason we seemingly haven't taken an apprentice yet is apparently the fact that we haven't naturally ran into one. So I seriously doubt people will ever vote to seek one out.

Also the apparent sudden surge in people talking about how apparently terrible dealing with the Grey orders bursar is makes zero sense to me.
We have never had any issue with that.

I feel like a lot of people are massively misunderstanding what the vow of poverty actually is and going off the fact it has the word poverty in it to decide that it must be some terrible thing.
 
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[X] Wizard
-[X] The Golden Order
-[X] Let Eike decide

I don't think the Grey Order is the best idea, Eike is intended to "actually run" the business, avoid Divided Loyalties, etc.
 
dpara said:
[X] Wizard
-[X] The Golden Order
-[X] Let Eike decide

I don't think the Grey Order is the best idea, Eike is intended to "actually run" the business, avoid Divided Loyalties, etc.
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Mathilde doesn't give two fucks about the EIC as a business.
Hell half the reason Wilhelmina didn't pick her sons was because they would run it purely as a business.

Ensuring the EIC remains a force for good and on good diplomatic terms with the Empires allies seems far better to me than making it a better means of making a few people rich.
 
Tylonius said:
Sure, but this is way more narrative interesting than just some random character created specifically to be our apprentice.
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No arguing with that. But is it the preexisting connection what makes the relationship valuable, or is it where the relationship could go worth more? Opinions aside, Eike does seem to have strong good work ethic so she'll make a good apprentice.

NavySeel said:
Literally half the reason we seemingly haven't taken an apprentice yet is apparently the fact that we haven't naturally ran into one. So I seriously doubt people will ever vote to seek one out.

Also the apparent sudden surge in people talking about how apparently terrible dealing with the Grey orders bursar is makes zero sense to me.
We have never had any issue with that.

I feel like a lot of people are massively misunderstanding what the vow of poverty actually is and going off the fact it has the word poverty in it to decide that it must be some terrible thing.
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Even on a surface level, running a for-profit enterprise while swearing the Vow of Poverty invites conflict between two duties, while being in a merchant in a mercantile College does not. We've never had to be at the head of business and reconcile that with a Grey's responsibilities and oaths. If the Grey Order dictates where we can spend our money and why, it's reasonable to not expect more leniency just because Eike makes the EIC a Grey College project.

Also, ask for it to put in turn options. There's a huge amount of support for an apprentice as evidenced by this vote, and if it remains throughout the turn plans it will most likely happen. Also the calculus has changed with WEBMAT and the AP rework.

NavySeel said:
Mathilde doesn't give two fucks about the EIC as a business.
Hell half the reason Wilhelmina didn't pick her sons was because they would run it purely as a business.

Ensuring the EIC remains a force for good and on good diplomatic terms with the Empires allies seems far better to me than making it a better means of making a few people rich.
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It's not about the EIC as a business. Well, not just the EIC as business given that being wealthy has proven advantageous. It's because it's about Eike's inheritance and future, and not making her life harder just because we'd like her as an apprentice. And Wilhemina disapproved of hers sons because she didn't like they preferred short term gains over long-term growth, perhaps out of ambition or greed.

And it's not like the company will instantly spoil the moment we takes eyes off of it. We did a good job on instilling loyalty to the Empire, and the current work it's doing is profitable, useful, and has helped powerful allies. For all the trouble it's caused the Black waters canal project is redrawing geopolitics in favor of the Empire right now. It's trajectory is solid, and Black Swan events that interfere with it's current functions are more likely to be economic rather than ethical or outright heretical.
 
Honestly I'm finding it slightly annoying to come back to the thread and find literally pages of people making arguments that had been pretty firmly debunked earlier.
NeonLights said:
No arguing with that. But is it the preexisting connection what makes the relationship valuable, or is it where the relationship could go worth more? Opinions aside, Eike does seem to have strong good work ethic so she'll make a good apprentice.


Even on a surface level, running a for-profit enterprise while swearing the Vow of Poverty invites conflict between two duties, while being in a merchant in a mercantile College does not. We've never had to be at the head of business and reconcile that with a Grey's responsibilities and oaths. If the Grey Order dictates where we can spend our money and why, it's reasonable to not expect more leniency just because Eike makes the EIC a Grey College project.
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As you say, that's on a surface level, and its about our money. Even as the person running the company the EICs money would not be Eikes rendering that kind of moot.

And you're right we've simply had to be a massive stock holder which actually was our money and run a fief.

The Grey college doesn't care so long as Eikes personal profits go towards things that benefit the empire or her magic.

Again I feel this is massively overestimating how large of a burden he vow of poverty is seeing as Mathilde was allowed to live in a penthouse with a massive personal library and anything else she wanted including silk sheets.

There are nobles who look poor compared to Mathilde and she wasn't even a lady magister at the time.
 
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