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To figure out if something is possible with magic, step one is to decide which Wind it aligns with. Some things do not align with a Wind. Some things align with something else. The idea of creating a pseudo-Wind that has the positive properties of that Wind without its negative is the sort of thing that aligns as fundamentally with Tzeentch as fire aligns with Aqshy.
huh, oof then. With all the knowledge and puzzle pieces we have collected so far then that pretty much leaves God of magic ranald or divine magic as the only solution I can think of like the Damsels are doing so oof since we didn't get such from the mugging.

Huh, interesting to use a God to create such though, interesting to say the least of the potential of divine magic.
 
huh, oof then. With all the knowledge and puzzle pieces we have collected so far then that pretty much leaves God of magic ranald or divine magic as the only solution I can think of like the Damsels are doing so oof since we didn't get such from the mugging.

Huh, interesting to use a God to create such though, interesting to say the least of the potential of divine magic.

Clearly the solution is to keep mugging gods until Ranald can add magic to his domains.
 
On an extended thought: I feel like the Tongs result is a pointer in the right direction, because between it and the nature of Altdorf it raises the question of whether you could make an interaction between winds without trying to have one touch another close enough to form Dhar.

It's simple really: If you can't control the other wind yourself, just get someone else, or with an enchantment something else, to do it for you and build your efforts around that known quantity.

Then you have no one wind manipulating another, just getting several spellcasters with a good working relationship, letting each control their own contribution, and seeing if you can get something out of their combined efforts that's more than the sum of its parts.

Though, honestly, that's... basically just Windherding. Or at the very least, a subset of it we're likely to learn quite early on.

So yeah, in the end, as much as the attempt at Tongs was a failure I think it's likely to serve Mathilde really well as an example of what not to do when she gets to the things that do work. Even if it eventually turns out she over-generalized in ignorance and there are circumstances where you can directly influence one wind with another safely, it's good to know, in exhaustive detail, that there are a great many, likely most where you can't. And I imagine it will save her quite a bit of hassle when the time comes.

Sort of like the safety research for Aetheric Vitae, in that regard.

Vote wise...

[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul

I like CeBrudras' argument here. Two varied options. One to learn how to accommodate for, one who accommodates for humans.
 
I wanted a weaker Wind, with the properties of Wind just reduced so that we could take a softer touch, derived from the stronger Wind. I hardly think that's the same.
Okay, so. A fundamental aspect of the winds as we know them is that the winds repel eachother, on a fundamental level. We can make 'a weaker wind', by just having lower concentrations of Ulgu, but the idea of Ulgu Tongs is using that repulsive force to control another wind by proxy. A weaker wind lets the other wind slip away, a stronger one sends it thrashing until it touches and corrupts anyway, and so in order to do what you asked if we could do, it would need to be able to manipulate and touch the winds directly, and not curdle. This would be a force that is not the winds. The winds repulse eachother because they are fundamentally separate from one another. To achieve what you suggested, we would need to make essentially an entirely new fundamental magical force that has none of the downsides of the winds, but is still controllable by a wizard with an arcane mark.

That said, we know of groups like Elementalists who break these rules, but they don't do Tongs, they just do something entirely different from Teclesian theory.
 
[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul

I really like this duo. Edda is an example of a dwarf you need to adjust to and accommodate for, while Kazrik is a dwarf capable of bridging the cultural gap from the other direction. The ability to distinguish these two groups will make future connections much smoother. It also should be easy to weave together an update with these two characters, since their relationship provides a lot of material.

Their attached groups are also useful choices. The cult of Valaya is the heart of every dwarven settlement and a good relationship with them means Eike will always have some initial foot in the door even in unusual holds. Azul is the opposite. A very specific, but powerful opportunity for her future.

[X] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings
That is a quite good argument, actually. And I'm generally in favour of the 2 dwarves/1 non-dwarf split, so..

[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul
[X] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings
 
Johann takes a moment longer to consider it. "Any other research branch, I'd have my doubts how well I'd fit into it," he eventually says. "But I've seen how you do research. I think it would be a good fit."
We shall make him head of Acquisitions. Aggressive acquisitions.

Increasingly I suspect that BtU has the longest list of 'ways this can screw you over even on a successful cast' of any spell.

If I am going to see further, it will be by standing on the shoulders of Dwarves.
Shieldbearer: Nods in approval. "The proper place for a Thane."

Investigate the possibility of using one Wind to directly manipulate another.
Well at least we know. Mathilde might be able to use it safely and secretly. But no other Wizard could be taught. Dead end, no usable results.
 
[x] Belegar Ironhammer
[x] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings
[x] Francesco, Soizic, and the Undumgi

these Re the three groups that will give the girl the greatest sample of the worlds cultures.
 
On an extended thought: I feel like the Tongs result is a pointer in the right direction, because between it and the nature of Altdorf it raises the question of whether you could make an interaction between winds without trying to have one touch another close enough to form Dhar.

It's simple really: If you can't control the other wind yourself, just get someone else, or with an enchantment something else, to do it for you and build your efforts around that known quantity.

Then you have no one wind manipulating another, just getting several spellcasters with a good working relationship, letting each control their own contribution, and seeing if you can get something out of their combined efforts that's more than the sum of its parts.

Though, honestly, that's... basically just Windherding. Or at the very least, a subset of it we're likely to learn quite early on.
While an interesting idea and something i'd be interested in actually doing. It would require collaboration with some other mage to manipulate their wind alongside our manipulation of our wind to try and do research into mixing magics to create something else which is oof since i remember the idea of theorireticlly it being possible for if you managed to gather 8 mages of their respective colleges to all cast in tow together then they'd be able to create Quaysh but in turn you'd have all the mages rolling dices individually for a fuck up and that's basically a nightmare waiting to happen.

Not counting that said partner would require fine manipulation of his or her wind, probably does not have the same cheat as us to dispose of any dhar generated and would rely solely on the room we just used to nope any dhar generated, and such research is still very questionable to mages at large at least to the colleges stance on it even with our safeguards so we'd need somebody who we could trust to do such research with and even then, some of the knowledge we would use may have said mage were collaberating with question where we could have gotten it from which is dicey.

It's something i'm interested in to say the least, but the idea of needing more then one mage to cast a specific magic is one that seems to run into the issue of each mage needing to make dice roll to see if they succeed on their part which is oof, dicey as seen with the theoriretical example of creating Quaysh if you gathered a mage from each respective wind college to cast in tow to create it which is a disaster waiting to happen, at least with enchantment the consequences are reduced unless we roll hilariously bad.

Only example I can think of in quest lore of multiple magic users working together to create something bigger then what they would be able to do alone is the dwarves and elves working together, and even then it was only in artifice they managed to combine their work, not wind magic it's self of the elves unfortunately. Rituals may be an exception to this rule though, as I don't have the quote but i'm preety sure unless my memory is failing me Boney said somewhere sometimes rituals require other winds to work although not sure if that was him mentioning it in reference to components in the ritual requiring different winds in them or the ritual it's self actually needing wind's to some extant being controlled or channeled into it.

Either way, as long as chance remains with wind magic, then arcane artifice is going to be the limits of combining multiple magic user's efforts unfortunately unless we encounter something to make the dice kinder to such efforts which can be translated on large to the rest of the colleges like say a god of magic and even that's dicey in how it would be received on large and the God in question.

Either way, some speculation I wanted to add to the thread. hm, now that I think about it oof then, the plausibility of multiple mages to cast wind magic is preety low then beside ritual magic.
 
Okay, so. A fundamental aspect of the winds as we know them is that the winds repel eachother, on a fundamental level. We can make 'a weaker wind', by just having lower concentrations of Ulgu, but the idea of Ulgu Tongs is using that repulsive force to control another wind by proxy. A weaker wind lets the other wind slip away, a stronger one sends it thrashing until it touches and corrupts anyway, and so in order to do what you asked if we could do, it would need to be able to manipulate and touch the winds directly, and not curdle. This would be a force that is not the winds. The winds repulse eachother because they are fundamentally separate from one another. To achieve what you suggested, we would need to make essentially an entirely new fundamental magical force that has none of the downsides of the winds, but is still controllable by a wizard with an arcane mark.

That said, we know of groups like Elementalists who break these rules, but they don't do Tongs, they just do something entirely different from Teclesian theory.
When it comes to looking into anything in this vein, I feel like Aetheric Vitae might be a good place to start. After all, there's something there that gets lost when it curdles directly into Dhar or becomes the seven winds. Figuring out what allows it to be unified might be a good way of finding other forms of unification, even if its impossible to translate directly.
 
[X] Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Gotri, the K8P Air Corps, and the Cult of Morgrim
[X] Kragg the Grim
[X] Thorek Ironbrow
[X] Francesco, Soizic, and the Undumgi
[X] Hubert, Sir Ruprecht, and Ulrikadrin
[X] Cython
[X] The We
 
[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul
[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Francesco, Soizic, and the Undumgi

Kazrik is the dwarf with the human affinity trait and has the most contact with non-Undumgi humans.
Edda is the best option we have when it comes to learning about the dwarven economy. And her not being good with manlings is not necessarily a bad thing, after all its not exactly uncommon among dwarves.
Francesco and the rest are the ones most involved with the EIC, it would be good if they knew each other.
 
[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Johann and the Cult of Grungni
[X] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings
[X] Francesco, Soizic, and the Undumgi
[X] Adela, Oswald, and the Gunnery School
[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul
 
Welp, Tongs ended predictably
Well, that's not entirely fair - the hope of using one Wind to manipulate another with enough fine control is dead, but using it to grab onto the other and just ride out the Dhar might actually work. Unfortunately, barring a major upheaval in the quest, this will never be investigated - it's not something we can use in a single moment of great need like the Second Secret, it would need a great deal of research and setup.

Anyway, as for Eike, I think Edda's a good choice. She's a perfect example of how Dwarves Dwarf, and she herself is an absolute expert on getting Dwarves to do things. She's got no clue about humans, but that shouldn't really be a problem here, and might be a benefit for Eike to see, too.

[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
 
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I'd rather not pick options just to get a favourite character more screentime. Preferably they'd have something to offer Eike.

As much as Kragg is fun to read about, for example, I don't think Eike/the EIC is going to be interacting with Runesmiths in the future enough that insight into how they work is worth a slot. Even then, Thorek would be a better option.

[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul
[X] Dreng, Clan Huzkul, and the Cult of Grimnir
[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
 
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"Clever answer," she says after a moment's thought. "Sometimes we say that any idiot can be a Light Wizard in the sun, their true test comes in the depths of night. If the inverse can be said of your kind, you could be said to be doing very well indeed."

"Thank you," you say, trying to sound sincere.
Mathilde: *grumbles internally*
I believe I have figured out Mathilde's next big project. Dice rollers! Never again will citizens of the empire have to wonder if the virtual dice they are rolling are in fact random!
Speaking of, it might be possible to statistically analyze the randomness of the Winds the same way you can analyze how close to true randomness a pair of dice are. Not that I think Mathilde even has any idea that kind of math exists, never mind the problem of finding a way to measure randomness from a Wind...

[X] Kazrik and the Dwarves of Karak Azul
[X] Edda and the Cult of Valaya
[X] Gotri, the K8P Air Corps, and the Cult of Morgrim
[X] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings

Belegar's our friend, but I'm not sure meeting King Belegar is the best lesson on Dwarves that we could give Eike. And there's been good arguments made for the value of introducing her to the local Halflings.
 
Belegar's our friend, but I'm not sure meeting King Belegar is the best lesson on Dwarves that we could give Eike. And there's been good arguments made for the value of introducing her to the local Halflings.
I didn't put my vote to him. The benefit of Belegar, though, would be as a future political contact. Just having been introduced would allow Eike as the future head of the EIC to open a line to him in future and not get instantly dismissed as a random human merchant. "You're that girl Mathilde brought round that one time?" is better than "Who are you and why should I care?"

The other options do that too. But if the EIC wants to talk with 'Karak Eight Peaks' rather than a specific faction within it, an introduction to its king has weight the others don't.
 
[X] Belegar Ironhammer
[X] Francesco, Soizic, and the Undumgi
[X] Panoramia, Hluodwica, and the Halflings

The Dwarf who works with humans, the Humans who work with dwarfs and the Halflings who work with both.
This isn't about teaching her How To Dwarf. It is about teaching her how to get along with the many disparate groups that an international trade company will encounter.
 
I'm a bit shocked that Edda is beating Panoramia and the Halflings, and Francesco and the Undumgi

like, they are both more Interesting groups, and better for the kid to know?

is there a reason that she is doing so well?
 
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