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For me personally, it's also important to note that interacting with the expedition leadership is to a pretty large extent time limited. In the next few phases of this expedition, we're going to be busy dealing with the Dolgan, doing scouting, and maintaining the Rite of Way. If we want to get a rapport with people, the actions to do so are going to become much more scarce pretty shortly. Now is the time to figure out what makes everybody tick, because we aren't going to have time to have these heart-to-heart meetings when we're halfway into hell and shit starts going wrong.
 
If interacting with our fellow expedition-goers was purely for flavor and "see what interests you" and didn't give us anything of value to the expedition, Boney would not be making us trade off between "interact with other members of the expedition" and "go do other stuff," much like how we don't have to choose between our normal actions and our social actions in regular turns. On the K8P expedition, our interpersonal choices had payoffs for our ability to know and do relevant things later on, not just our "do stuff" actions.

That's not to say that every interpersonal interaction is of identical value, of course. There are better and worse options. It is my contention, though, that interacting with Expedition leadership is a high-value option because of the outsize influence these people's attitudes and competencies have on the expedition. So, no, I'm not arguing based just on coolness factor, I'm saying "I think it will be useful to talk to this person so we can understand their motivations, because we cannot expect people to just listen to our perspective because obviously it'll be sensible to them."

I don't disagree with you, I'm not voting the same way as you because of personal preference. It's just that we had arguments over how competent Borek was from the time we first met him and as far as I can tell we're still having them. Reading your earlier post it seemed to me that you were attempting to open another front on the can we trust "x" wars. If that was not your intent I apologize but if the thread can not collectively decide on whether Borek knows what he is doing, or which of are wizards is the secret chaos worshipper I really don't see the value in trying to come to a decision on whether the Wolf guy is a just glory hound or if he can be trusted. And while learning more about him is good let's give Mathilde some credit, despite all of our jokes 14 Diplomacy is still above average and she's a fairly respected figure among the expedition, I'm fairly confident in a crisis situation she can make her opinion clear to our peers.
 
I had a rebuttal, but then I realized the obvious rebuttal to that, so I'm going to cut out the middleman and post both parts.

"She brought additional Dawi lives into this world!"

"Let me introduce to you the miracle known as Birth."

...............

Mathilde Weber's newest title: Technically, the most successful Midwife(or mother, up for deliberation) in Dawi history.
Technically she brought them back from the dead. (And they did die according to the Great book of grudges). So she's technically a necromancer!

:V
 
Trying to vote via the Add votes thing under the post box.

[x] Scouting near the convoy
[x] Ranging far ahead of the convoy
[x] Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania
[x] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr
[x] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
 
Mathilde's arrogance, and commitment towards appearing unflappable and entirely deserving of said arrogance, are some of my favourite character foibles of hers.
This is especially entertaining when combined with her capability to turn around and act entirely self-deprecating when she feels it is needed for the task at hand. Very Grey College of her.
Not necessarily, I am pretty sure that most people are voting for seeking with Gotrek or Snorri simply because it is a great opportunity to make friends Worst Slayer and his Friend Snorri Nosebitter before they crossed the Despair Horizon Event, and it makes sense to speak with the leader of the Expedition that wants to recover a Karag after, almost accidentally, recover another Karag... Not because we assume that they may not be sensible fellows and they have ht potential to screw us over down the line.

Like in the first turn, maybe I´m wrong but I am pretty convinced that people voted by Arnasil and Deathfonf mostly for the cool factor. I think that using the social actions a chore to make "preventive damage control" is a waste and sucks the fun out of the game, we should not be this negative.
I didn't vote for Deathfang, but did vote for Asarnil, because I wanted to get more of a handle on his personality with the new relationship of "Lady Magister Mathilde". I want to get to know Gotrek and Snorri as pre-disaster versions, but I haven't read any of those novels, so I really don't know the post-disaster versions either.

I want, both in and out of character, to get a handle on who they are. Both for tactical purposes, and for social ones.

I'm not going to be upset by side-trips, although I would prefer not. It's not that I think they are especially wrong, although I do think they are sub-optimal. But the biggest reason I have voted for other things is that they are not what I want to see.
 
Going through this quest from the start again (as one does, every now and then), it strikes me how much of Mathilde's accomplishments has even been possible due to the "Grey Wizard" option being selected at character creation, and the Magic-related skills and abilities that opened up for her.

I wonder, if we had selected one of the other listed backgrounds at character creation and invested an equivalent number of self-improvement actions into non-magical skills over the course of the quest, where could alt-Mathilde be at this point? In particular, one of the more "mundane" backgrounds like Innkeeper or Exciseman.

Could a alt-Mathilde following a non-magical and non-martial path have possibly equalled the achievements of canon magical Mathilde?


[ ] Innkeeper: Not the most typical of precursors to being a spymaster, but the ability to keep track of comings and goings and make sure nobody's going to start breaking the furniture while just looking like you're placidly cleaning a glass is a useful skill to have.
+Diplomacy, +Stewardship, -Learning

[ ] Exciseman: The most hated citizens in the Empire. To do your job, you had to be sneaky. To survive your job, you had to be tough. But it didn't win you any friends.
+Intrigue, +Martial, -Diplomacy
 
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Going through this quest from the start again (as one does, every now and then), it strikes me how much of Mathilde's accomplishments has even been possible due to the "Grey Wizard" option being selected at character creation, and the Magic-related skills and abilities that opened up for her.

I wonder, if we had selected one of the other listed backgrounds at character creation and invested an equivalent number of self-improvement actions into non-magical skills over the course of the quest, where could alt-Mathilde be at this point? In particular, one of the more "mundane" backgrounds like Innkeeper or Exciseman.

Could a alt-Mathilde following a non-magical and non-martial path have possibly equalled the achievements of canon magical Mathilde?
Probably different kinds of achievements, but I wouldn't be surprised if—without so much of our time spent on improving or researching our magic shenanigans—we managed things like setting up much better and more expansive spy networks, breaking open massive chaos cults, or other such things. Hell, we might have even ended up as a better fighter or just not gone to Eight Peaks at all since Roswita wouldn't have fired us and killed vampires. We were a Wizard so we did wizardly stuff, but I could see a normal human spymaster doing more spymaster stuff.
 
Going through this quest from the start again (as one does, every now and then), it strikes me how much of Mathilde's accomplishments has even been possible due to the "Grey Wizard" option being selected at character creation, and the Magic-related skills and abilities that opened up for her.

I wonder, if we had selected one of the other listed backgrounds at character creation and invested an equivalent number of self-improvement actions into non-magical skills over the course of the quest, where could alt-Mathilde be at this point? In particular, one of the more "mundane" backgrounds like Innkeeper or Exciseman.

Could a alt-Mathilde following a non-magical and non-martial path have possibly equalled the achievements of canon magical Mathilde?
I expect that innkeeper might have a bigger spy. With feelers all over the empire. Also alot richer given we could go after money without having to justify it every time.
Probably different kinds of achievements, but I wouldn't be surprised if—without so much of our time spent on improving or researching our magic shenanigans—we managed things like setting up much better and more expansive spy networks, breaking open massive chaos cults, or other such things. Hell, we might have even ended up as a better fighter or just not gone to Eight Peaks at all since Roswita wouldn't have fired us and killed vampires. We were a Wizard so we did wizardly stuff, but I could see a normal human spymaster doing more spymaster stuff.
Also would have left more room shines for traits like perfect memory and such.
 
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[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[X] Journeyman Cyrston von Danling
 
I'm going to break with the notion of mundane achievement a bit, Chaos Cults are a dime a dozen, break one, even an old and entrenched one and another three will rise in their place. Nothing in that field could have compared to translating Qeekish, retaking Eight Peeks or Vlag. When it comes to impact on the world magic made Mathilde and I don't think we could have had a comparable impact without it and for good reason. Magic is for good or for ill the greatest and most pervasive force in the world.
 
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Most importantly ..... if we weren't a Ulgu wizard, we might not have voted to worship Ranald.

I can't imagine us doing half as well without Ranald watching over us, blessing our dice.
 
For me personally, it's also important to note that interacting with the expedition leadership is to a pretty large extent time limited. In the next few phases of this expedition, we're going to be busy dealing with the Dolgan, doing scouting, and maintaining the Rite of Way. If we want to get a rapport with people, the actions to do so are going to become much more scarce pretty shortly. Now is the time to figure out what makes everybody tick, because we aren't going to have time to have these heart-to-heart meetings when we're halfway into hell and shit starts going wrong.

It's true that the time for social is running low.

But some options seem less valuable than others. There are great reasons to meet and greet Borek (I'd mainly want to raise his moral using our experience with Belegar and try if possible to lower if chances of going Slayer if things go less than optimaly at Karag Dun) and the Wolf (see state of mind and show of support).

Snorri on the other hand I'm less sure. I mean, his moral seems good after saving Vlag and I think he's already very predisposed to heed our advice if it comes to it ("If a wizard tells you to do something, do it.") I'm not sure we have much to gain besides headpats.

If we investigate the Chaos Dwarves, also visiting the combes opens the option of using one against the other if needed, either now or on the way back. Intrigue IS our speciality and so is pitting our foes against each other. Hell, even if we can just make the Skaven and Dwarves wary of each other it might be enough to make they less likely to commit forces to stop us.
 
Magic is not a requirement to be awesome in Warhammer Fantasy, the big thing that would have happened if we didn't go Wizard is that we'd have leaned hard on the skills.

Mathilde tends to lean hard on her very high stats, because her high magical skill meant that she could do things that were technically out of her weight class reliably enough by using her spells tactically to trivialize otherwise difficult plays. So she got to get a lot of skills up really high when she was still 'Malleable'. But in terms of special rules with direct impact on rolls? She actually doesn't have that many.

A non-magical character would have spent much more time learning skills. We'd definitely have Master Swordswoman for instance, and probably Expert Gunner/Infiltrator and so forth.

Magic is a toolkit--a very good one--but a toolkit nonetheless. Even a purely normal person can play on the same ballpark if they have the talent and will to reach their limits in that field.
 
Magic is a toolkit--a very good one--but a toolkit nonetheless. Even a purely normal person can play on the same ballpark if they have the talent and will to reach their limits in that field.
Quadratic wizards, linear fighters springs to mind.
As time goes on, we keep on moving further and further away from what we could have personally achieved without Magic.
 
Quadratic wizards, linear fighters springs to mind.
As time goes on, we keep on moving further and further away from what we could have personally achieved without Magic.
On the one hand you are correct in the sense that mundane prowess can get you only so far. On the other, in warhammer there are plenty of mighty heroes who change the world without ant spellcasting of their own--Gotrek, Sigmar, Giles, etc.

In response to "linear warrior quadratic wizards" I contend that DnD (as the classic example) is sadly unimaginative with high level martial characters. If a wizard can raise a mountain, then a fighter should be able to dig the strait of Gibraltar, if you get my meaning.
 
I would actually prefer if more people knew about the incident.

Mathilde could use some harmless humble pie, she's getting too smug for her own good.

Honestly, I do not think Mathilde "vampires prefer to umpire" Weber cares so much if her reputation is humorous,as long as it is genuinely positive. Such cares are for highly insecure and pretentious people, which Mathilde seems to be close to, at first glance, but then you realise that she considers grey wizards to having come from showmen, and you see that her smug act is not insecurity or pretentiousness but rather showmanship dominating through.

Being Hoid in this story is just as good as being Gandalf, maybe better, even.
 
Quadratic wizards, linear fighters springs to mind.
As time goes on, we keep on moving further and further away from what we could have personally achieved without Magic.
Sure, but exponential organizers. If we really wanted to change the world as a mundane, we'd do it by bureaucracy and administration. Combat, Tactics, Logistics, as it were. A high level wizard might be worth a dozen high level fighters, but that doesn't make them neccesarily better than an expert quartermaster who lets your kingdom support another ten thousand troops in the field, or a merchant prince who's wealth lets your kingdom purchase another dozen artillery batteries, or a diplomat who's silver tongue convinces the enemy not to fight in the first place. As Mathilda, we value these sort of skills enough to invest in them despite having magic, and a Mathilda who could focus on training these skills rather than spending the effort to train magic, could be qualitatively and quantitatively better at them. Magic is a powerful tool that offers us a lot of versatility, but it's not the end all.
 
Sure, but exponential organizers. If we really wanted to change the world as a mundane, we'd do it by bureaucracy and administration. Combat, Tactics, Logistics, as it were. A high level wizard might be worth a dozen high level fighters, but that doesn't make them neccesarily better than an expert quartermaster who lets your kingdom support another ten thousand troops in the field, or a merchant prince who's wealth lets your kingdom purchase another dozen artillery batteries, or a diplomat who's silver tongue convinces the enemy not to fight in the first place. As Mathilda, we value these sort of skills enough to invest in them despite having magic, and a Mathilda who could focus on training these skills rather than spending the effort to train magic, could be qualitatively and quantitatively better at them. Magic is a powerful tool that offers us a lot of versatility, but it's not the end all.

It does take a lot of administrating to equal a WAGH destroying mountain of shadowy doom though ;)
 
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Honestly, I do not think Mathilde "vampires prefer to umpire" Weber cares so much if her reputation is humorous,as long as it is genuinely positive. Such cares are for highly insecure and pretentious people, which Mathilde seems to be close to, at first glance, but then you realise that she considers grey wizards to having come from showmen, and you see that her smug act is not insecurity or pretentiousness but rather showmanship dominating through.

Being Hoid in this story is just as good as being Gandalf, maybe better, even.
Mathilde's best friend is just as likely to prank her as he is to help her, and she'll usually take both in stride. It's rather fair to say Mathilde acts smug because it's expected of her and people's reactions are funny, not because she actually thinks she's deserving of it.
 
Sure, but exponential organizers. If we really wanted to change the world as a mundane, we'd do it by bureaucracy and administration. Combat, Tactics, Logistics, as it were. A high level wizard might be worth a dozen high level fighters, but that doesn't make them neccesarily better than an expert quartermaster who lets your kingdom support another ten thousand troops in the field, or a merchant prince who's wealth lets your kingdom purchase another dozen artillery batteries, or a diplomat who's silver tongue convinces the enemy not to fight in the first place. As Mathilda, we value these sort of skills enough to invest in them despite having magic, and a Mathilda who could focus on training these skills rather than spending the effort to train magic, could be qualitatively and quantitatively better at them. Magic is a powerful tool that offers us a lot of versatility, but it's not the end all.

While this is true there is not escaping the fact that the major problems of the world are magical not mundane. The problem with forests is not just that they are full of beastmen, who can be killed by and army, it's that they are filled with Dhar, which will always make more beastmen. The solution is to shore up the Wasytone network. Same for say Sylvania, the issue is not so much that there are undead to fight, but that the land is so seeped in death they spontaneously generate, a problem for a priest (which is to say another sort of magician) to fix.Great generals can win victories, great organizers can found states, but magicians need to fix what magic has broken.
 
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I mean the big positive of speaking to Wulfhart Jr is the soft power. It's an avenue of control through information that allows us to better manage as well as watch our allies.

There's certainly a lot going on under the surface of the knights, considering the Taalites proclivity for the ice witch and the Ulricans pretty abysmal showing so far, and we really need to get a handle on that. Part of the reason we've been so successful so far in quest is that we know exactly how to utilise our allies, and Wulfhart is probably the biggest wildcard remaining.
 
Mathilde's best friend is just as likely to prank her as he is to help her, and she'll usually take both in stride. It's rather fair to say Mathilde acts smug because it's expected of her and people's reactions are funny, not because she actually thinks she's deserving of it.

Yeah, exactly my point, she won't really care about a humorous reputation.

And besides, even if the wall carvings show her crafting commodes while rescuing Karak Vlag, important thing is she still rescued Karak Vlag.
 
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Sure, but exponential organizers. If we really wanted to change the world as a mundane, we'd do it by bureaucracy and administration. Combat, Tactics, Logistics, as it were. A high level wizard might be worth a dozen high level fighters, but that doesn't make them neccesarily better than an expert quartermaster who lets your kingdom support another ten thousand troops in the field, or a merchant prince who's wealth lets your kingdom purchase another dozen artillery batteries, or a diplomat who's silver tongue convinces the enemy not to fight in the first place. As Mathilda, we value these sort of skills enough to invest in them despite having magic, and a Mathilda who could focus on training these skills rather than spending the effort to train magic, could be qualitatively and quantitatively better at them. Magic is a powerful tool that offers us a lot of versatility, but it's not the end all.
Sure, Which is why i specified personal achievement in my post.
The only way a non magical character could achieve something on the scale we did is through organizations.
The focus on such a character would have been more on organizations, and less on direct personal intervention.
The problems you can solve without an army at your back run out a lot faster when you don't have magic.
Its a question of scaling,which is why i thought the cliche was appropriate
 
Yeah, exactly my point, she won't really care about a humorous reputation.

Snd besides, even if the wall carvings show her crafting commodes while rescuing Karsk Vlag, important thing is she still rescued Karak Vlag.
...You know, if it weren't for the Dwarven network being seperate from the elven one, the metaphor of saving Vlag by clogging a giant magical toilet might have even worked.
 
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