- Location
- Under your bed
It seems neither of us are going to change our opinion so I'll end it here. Better both unconvinced then an evening long discussion. It should stay fun after all.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Right now the social action actually being competed for here is to meet with Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger.
Now understanding the leadership is important, but I got tell you- I don't think there's a lot of depth to the lake that is Ruprecht the Younger! I think we already basically understand his deal, why he's here, and can make a pretty good guess at how that will drive him to act. I'm really not seeing that devoting some time to talking to him is going to lead to much more useful insight.
Now understanding the leadership is important, but I got tell you- I don't think there's a lot of depth to the lake that is Ruprecht the Younger! I think we already basically understand his deal, why he's here, and can make a pretty good guess at how that will drive him to act. I'm really not seeing that devoting some time to talking to him is going to lead to much more useful insight.
- Location
- USA
I know the discussion has passed the topic, but if we really wanted to get the Colleges an Elector vote the best way for Mathilde to influence that is to become Supreme Matriarch and mention it to Heidi. She's a big into politics and would have some incentive to get a friend in a position like that. Would still take a lot of work, but she'd have a better shot at influencing that decision than Mathilde would.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We're not doing that whether we go or not, because we don't need a grudge from the Dawi Zharr following us while we're heading into the Chaos Wastes. So, it's moot.
- Location
- Greece
That's one vote. Out of 15. The way EC work, the Emperor is the first among equal, sure, he holds a lot more soft power, more resources and slightly more authority than any single EC and he can influence others much better, but he only has one vote. And he has expressed dismay about being unable to convince the other ECs to do what is best for the empire every time we meet him, so his politicking may secure few votes, if any.
And appointing a new Elector position may be one of these spiky things that need supermajority, or even complete consensus, to pass, so even if we manage to get 8 votes it may not be enough.
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- Location
- Florida
How many times has that been said about other characters? And how often has it turned out that they've actually been pretty interesting to learn more of and fun to interact with? Obviously opinion differs but generally speaking there's usually been at least some vocal minority that would fight to the death over a character they ended up liking.
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NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Characters are like ogres. They have layers.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Though unlike ogres, only a few of those layers are made of adipose tissue.
- Location
- Earth
BoneyM is very good at making the characters layered and truly characters instead of merely stereotypes.
We will learn new things about him should we talk to him.
[x] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
- Location
- Florida
Remember when we barely knew Roswita and were mostly following her exploits through the EIC Rumor mill? And when people lost their minds and wrote effort posts on how insane and dumb she was to make that economic deal with the EIC? And it turned out that yeah she actually had some idea of what she was doing?
Or with Johann being super sus only to end up as a serious contender in the romance bowl?
Or Max being a whiny manchild only to become our most beloved paper pusher?
In this quest, historically, writing off a character as boring or reasonably understood after a single meeting has been the incorrect assumption.
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Alright, now write up everybody else's hidden mysteries.
Because believe it or not, we've met way more than 3 characters, they are not all by design full of hidden depths and motives, if only because that'd be weird design as well as ridiculously time consuming. Not to mention that even when they do have hidden mysteries, they are not necessarily ones which change what we really think about the character, because they often just fit with what we've already seen.
Sometimes the people we meet are pretty much what they seem, and dwelling solely on the most blatant exceptions gives an incomplete picture, just like ignoring them altogether would.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Tbf, still a whinny manchild judging from his reaction to the fight.
- Location
- Florida
That's fair, and yeah I did cherry-pick, mostly because they were the first I could remember off the top of my head. The point I was trying to make was that people are, or at least can be, more than their first impressions. And Boney has generally put in effort to make that bear out to one degree or another.
True, but my point was that actually, discovering everybody's depths isn't necessarily something we need to do simply because not every character will become completely re-contextualized after enough conversations. And that's ok, some people have the sort of secrets you'd expect them to have.
- Location
- Earth
Professor Verezzo was an embezzler and spy for the Emperor's spymaster.
Detlev Schultz was installed by Talabecland and was very interested in the Dawi connecting the rivers. Later Talabecland was mentioned to have run in near-grudge territory with Karak Kadrin.
Gustav while not that good a commander with his always lead from the front stuff is a good teacher.
Our little "Vampire" in sylvania was actually a Ranaldian aka "Heidi". Though we still don't know if that's her name, probably not.
Gotri is damn radical by dwarf standards. His opinions on KaK politics certainly are "unique".
Kazrik and Edda have an affair.
Ulthar was actually disinherited.
We have always learned interesting details about people if we chose to get to know them.
Lets look at the list
1: Empeor/Rikland: could be convinced with Great Deeds both by Hidi and that he is generally pro Wizard
3: Cult of Sigmar: hard no, regardless of Great Deeds, assume that these votes are of limits unless their is a huge change in story.
1: The Ar-Ulric: not very likely because of religious reasons... but not impossible with the whole elf thing going on and if you could convince him that the colleges would vote with them over the cult of Sigmir.
1: Elder of the Moot: the most buyable vote, as long as it doesn't hurt the moot it's literally who pays more.
1: Stirland: Ross has become less agnst wizards in general, and Stirland probably likes them more then they ever did before hand. but we would need to put a lot more work in with her to get her on side for this.
1?: Sylvania??: if the Elector Count Sylvania was ever reinstated we could get their vote if we were one of the groups to help them hint hint nudge nudge....
so out of the groups, we have some idea about we at max could get 4-5 out of 8-9
and that's working really, really hard at it.
then we got the rest of the votes of 8 electors we don't know well enough to even know if they can be moved.
but cultural and politics of not wanting more people at the high table would put their default as no.
so currently we can only hope for 4-15.
But purely in terms of understanding his role as one of the Expedition's leadership. Yeah, sure, Ruprecht has his story. Everyone does. But in terms of leadership dynamics alone, I have serious doubts we'll find anything that changes the fundamental dynamics. He's a younger guy who is eager to prove himself and will default to more aggressive action because of that. He might have some story about his mother or how he came to follow his father's devotion to Ulric, and I'm sure it would all make a great character piece, but is it going to change which way he pushes when it comes to planning meetings? I do not think it will.
Ruprecht's story might be interesting, sure, though let's face it; it's unlikely to be as interesting as a tour of a skaven outpost. So in terms of competition between two actions, I don't think it'll be quite as interesting on the one hand, and nor does it have greater practical utility on the other.
- Location
- Earth
I think sylvania is likely to simply get lumped in with Stirland without getting another vote.
Which will give Stirland more soft power and arms, but not more direct political power.
- Location
- Greece
In all fairness, none of those assertions were wrong per se, they were incomplete.
Roswita did bad moves because she was hyperfocused on Sylvania. Said moves were not completely stupid (the economic agreement with the EIC was temporary) and did give her enough fuel to advance her goal somewhat (she still had to be saved by Mathilde andthe College, so not enough fuel), but they were not by any stretch good moves, they just weren't catastrophic either. And she seems to be doing better with experience.
Johann WAS doing something fishy, its just that said fishy thing was a fishy thing we genuinely had no actual objection to other that "dont get caught and torpedo our relations", where in the thread's mind "fishy" meant "CONSPIRES WITH THE ENEMIES OF HUMANITY"
Max is not a manchild, but he does like his grumbles, its just that reducing a multifaceted person's personality and talents to that is inherently reductive and unjust towards the rest of the person.
Our assertions weren't wrong, they were incomplete. They had part of the picture, a fragment of the whole, and that can mislead worse than outright falsehood, but they were not wrong.
In the end though, I agree with your conclusion. The same partial picture applies to Rupercht and Borek too. Why make this dinstiction, then? Because we should still be aware of where the actual flaw in the thought process is, rather than second guessing ourselves just because.
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- Location
- Earth
Ruprecht has just come away from his first battle where he sought glory.
And his people haven't exactly covered themselves in it.
They should've been the ones at the barricades after the slayers died, but faltered and everyone else ended up holding the bucket.
They almost routed if it wasn't for Ruprecht himself.
And then charged after the battle was already won.
This went nothing like he imagined I assure you, and I'd like to see where his mind is right now.
I don't know, I've always had the impression that if Stirland could hand it over to a trustworthy baron and wipe their hands of Sylvania they would.
it's the Moot that they want back.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Actually the Sigmar votes might be the easiest if Mathilde keeps up her dwarf nonsense. Hard to say she isnt worthy when shes so clearly 'following' Sigmars path.
Hell by the end of this expedition we will have definitely done more for the Karaz Ankor than Sigmar. Doubt we will get the same level of accolades though.
Hell by the end of this expedition we will have definitely done more for the Karaz Ankor than Sigmar. Doubt we will get the same level of accolades though.