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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Jyn Ryvia said:
3: Cult of Sigmar: hard no, regardless of Great Deeds, assume that these votes are of limits unless their is a huge change in story.
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Wouldn't put the Sigmarites firmly in the no category purely because dwarfs. The Karaz Ankor has a lot of soft power over the Sigmarites and if I'm not mistaken Mathilde is pretty much going to clinch the title of best dwarf friend since Sigmar.

She's bound to be the only human to just flat out save two different holds.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Lets look at the list

1: Empeor/Rikland: could be convinced with Great Deeds both by Hidi and that he is generally pro Wizard

3: Cult of Sigmar: hard no, regardless of Great Deeds, assume that these votes are of limits unless their is a huge change in story.

1: The Ar-Ulric: not very likely because of religious reasons... but not impossible with the whole elf thing going on and if you could convince him that the colleges would vote with them over the cult of Sigmir.

1: Elder of the Moot: the most buyable vote, as long as it doesn't hurt the moot it's literally who pays more.

1: Stirland: Ross has become less agnst wizards in general, and Stirland probably likes them more then they ever did before hand. but we would need to put a lot more work in with her to get her on side for this.

1?: Sylvania??: if the Elector Count Sylvania was ever reinstated we could get their vote if we were one of the groups to help them hint hint nudge nudge....

so out of the groups, we have some idea about we at max could get 4-5 out of 8-9

and that's working really, really hard at it.

then we got the rest of the votes of 8 electors we don't know well enough to even know if they can be moved.

but cultural and politics of not wanting more people at the high table would put their default as no.

so currently we can only hope for 4-15.
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I agree with the fact that we really shouldn't pursue that part because it will be long and chancy and a bd use of our time in general, but I disagree that the order of Sigmar is a hard no. We may (emphasis on may) be able to swing them if we really lean in to our Dawi connections and achievements, and maybe spent Dawi favour (or even a great boon) for it. Too much to spent for literally enabling us to roll the dice, but its not a completely futile excercise.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Actually the Sigmar votes might be the easiest if Mathilde keeps up her dwarf nonsense. Hard to say she isnt worthy when shes so clearly 'following' Sigmars path.

Hell by the end of this expedition we will have definitely done more for the Karaz Ankor than Sigmar. Doubt we will get the same level of accolades though.
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Visibly, sure, but in reality he did kinda save their entire race by keeping the Throne from being destroyed or corrupted. And while recovering Eight Peaks/Vlag did the same thing—stopping their decline—I'm not sure we can really put for responsibility for that on her shoulders, so it probably doesn't quite match up. Unless Eight Peaks wasn't actually enough to stop the decline entirely, in which case... yeah, if Vlag reconnects and pulls them completely out of the red in energy expenditure, then we could theoretically say Mathilde saved the Karaz Ankor. But that's a long shot, and Thorgrim would still be the only person to know it.
 
Honestly, there is also the problem that the Emperor can order the Grand Patriarch to vote against the college's interest if they become an Elector, according to some readings of articles of magic
 
Aranfan said:
Tbf, still a whinny manchild judging from his reaction to the fight.
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Objection! At worst, he's a grumbly manchild. And currently, he's suffering a headache from multi-wind+Chaos feedback after scrambling that Slaaneshi higher demon's spell. Which, if he has tactile Magesense like Johann, probably felt like headbutting a spiky ball of fire, lightning, and squick. It rather makes sense he would have a migraine after that.
 
DragonParadox said:
Isn't the Empire based on the HRE? The electors there were definitely the emperor's vassals, or is it spelled out somewhere?
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I am not versed enough in lore to answer that question, but I am pretty sure the whole thing is pitched as a council among equals rather than a vassal-liege relationship, from what we have seen and based on how the empire functions. And being an expy of HRE doesn't mean its 1:1 .

... maybe rather than assume, I should ask. @BoneyM , how does the feudal contract work between Electors and Emperors?
 
DragonParadox said:
Isn't the Empire based on the HRE? The electors there were definitely the emperor's vassals, or is it spelled out somewhere?
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BoneyM said:
The Ten Kingdoms of Ulthuan are, while united, possibly even touchier about how independent they may or may not be from the Phoenix King than Elector Counts are about the Emperor, and the Ambassadorship rotates on a regular basis based on whichever Kingdom needs their ego soothed.
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The little we know seems to indicate it is a bit more complicated than that.
 
Over here in Camp Nope, Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart is making a valiant battle with Uzkulak and the Skaven combes for fourth, fifth, and sixth place. Unfortunately, since the seventh place vote (Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania) is a good 20 votes behind, it's looking increasingly unlikely that we'll avoid going to both of the sidequest locations. So for now, I am adding an approval vote to my vote post for the Skaven combes as my prefered alternative to Uzkulak. I'd rather not visit either, that's just not how the vote's turning out for now, and I really don't want to visit Uzkulak.
 
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Derpmind said:
Over here in Camp Nope, Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart is making a valiant battle with Uzkulak and the Skaven combes for fourth, fifth, and sixth place. Unfortunately, since the seventh place vote (Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania) is a good 20 votes behind, it's looking increasingly unlikely that we'll avoid going to both of the sidequest locations. So for now, I am adding an approval vote to my vote post for the Skaven combes as my prefered alternative to Uzkulak. I'd rather not visit either, but that's just not how the vote's turning out for now.
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????

if that was the case, why vote for the Skaven Combes?

their currently in six place, surely it would be more effective to not vote for it and widen the gap it has to get?

otherwises your making it more likely for two sidequests?
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
????

if that was the case, why vote for the Skaven Combes?

their currently in six place, surely it would be more effective to not vote for it and widen the gap it has to get?

otherwises your making it more likely for two sidequests?
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Presumably Derpmind is more strongly against visiting Uz than they are against visiting the combes, and are voting for everything with a chance to push Uz into sixth place.
 
Briefvoice said:
But purely in terms of understanding his role as one of the Expedition's leadership. Yeah, sure, Ruprecht has his story. Everyone does. But in terms of leadership dynamics alone, I have serious doubts we'll find anything that changes the fundamental dynamics. He's a younger guy who is eager to prove himself and will default to more aggressive action because of that. He might have some story about his mother or how he came to follow his father's devotion to Ulric, and I'm sure it would all make a great character piece, but is it going to change which way he pushes when it comes to planning meetings? I do not think it will.

Ruprecht's story might be interesting, sure, though let's face it; it's unlikely to be as interesting as a tour of a skaven outpost. So in terms of competition between two actions, I don't think it'll be quite as interesting on the one hand, and nor does it have greater practical utility on the other.
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I mean, he just fucking saved the wolves against the Tempter. He might be mostly satisfied that he's proved himself, or he might be overeager to top himself. We can't know without talking to him.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
ehhhh, will have to disagree, I think its way more likely to convince Stirland to let go of Sylvania (they dont really want it) then to get Solland and Drakwald back.
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You could get Stirland to let go, but you'd have a hell of a time finding someone willing to rule it, and the amount of resources to make it viable and not get assassinated doing so would be immense. If you wait for Stirland to fix it up, they aren't going to want to get rid of it.
 
So, it occurs to me that the Tzeenchian daemonband are basically doing the murderhobo thing, only even more so. The question is, which group would be more fun for a group of Tzeenchians to mess with? Chaos Dwarves, or Skaven? Skaven are more paranoid, and plotty, and prone to creative weirdness, but CDs have fun toys to break, and a wider variety of slaves and loot, most likely.

I think they'd have more fun murderhoboing through Skaven, but any other opinions?
 
storryeater said:
Roswita did bad moves because she was hyperfocused on Sylvania. Said moves were not completely stupid (the economic agreement with the EIC was temporary) and did give her enough fuel to advance her goal somewhat (she still had to be saved by Mathilde andthe College, so not enough fuel), but they were not by any stretch good moves, they just weren't catastrophic either. And she seems to be doing better with experience.
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It is also worth noting that at this time, Roswita was operating under the unwavering certainty that she was going to die within one or two decades like Stirland's last 11 Elector Counts. And so she was focused on securing as much of her father's gains as possible before the next Elector Count with a much smaller emotional stake on keeping Eastern Stirland out of vampire hands would show up.
 
Yeah, the practical purpose of the social votes are to figure out where people stand, so that we know how best to manoeuvre in any upcoming politics. Even after being shaken by a poor showing in the battle, Ruprecht is:
  • From Karak Eight Peaks, where we are one of the most highly-ranked and respected authorities. We are effectively his boss's boss.
  • From the Empire, where we are also pretty high-ranking nobility by way of Lady Magisterialship.
  • A human, and thus much more amenable to seeing things our way, as opposed to a rigid uncompromising death march, as people seem to be envisioning Borek ordering if things go bad.
What on Earth do people think we could discover that would change the basic calculus away from "Ruprecht will probably have our back in any leadership crises"?
 
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Lightwhispers said:
So, it occurs to me that the Tzeenchian daemonband are basically doing the murderhobo thing, only even more so. The question is, which group would be more fun for a group of Tzeenchians to mess with? Chaos Dwarves, or Skaven? Skaven are more paranoid, and plotty, and prone to creative weirdness, but CDs have fun toys to break, and a wider variety of slaves and loot, most likely.

I think they'd have more fun murderhoboing through Skaven, but any other opinions?
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That sounds like Khorne or Slaanesh, not Tzeench.

Tzeench's idea of fun is creating a complex plan and see it work, or inducing great change, so those will be the motives, not the toys.

They may instigate a rebellion on the chaos dawi or play the Skaven , though, so its still a deadlock for whom they are going for.
 
I think Sigmar did more than just save the throne. The establishment of the Empire as a (relatively) firm ally to the Dwarfs is the reason the following period is called the Silver Age.
 
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