Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
With regard to the usefulness of social actions:
How useful is it to repeat the "getting to know" action with the same person in quick succession?
Does "getting to know" entail more than what we see on screen? If yes, is there any additional insight Mathilde gained regarding Borek or Egrimm?
Time spent with someone will give Mathilde a better idea of who they are, so she'd have a better idea of how they act in certain situations, for example. More time spent means more so.
It is possible that the skaven combes will come up with something relevant to our expedition -- they might be interested in taking a shot at the convoy, or then again they might just be focused on fighting the Chaos Dwarves. It is definite that Ruprecht Wulfhart, who sits on the expedition council and commands a significant portion of the fighting strength, will be relevant to our expedition, especially if there's a social showdown near the end.

I don't blame people for wanting adventure, excitement, or the chance of high rolling. I just think that we need to keep our eye on the end goal and make sure we're in good political shape by the time we reach Karag Dum. This requires meeting all the leadership, and may require meeting some of them multiple times (as we are doing this turn with Borek). I have a clear sense of what we stand to gain by visiting Chaos Vegas, but the combes are explicitly a "poke around and see if something randomly turns up" option.
... I'm not sure why/how "Visit the combes" is an option too though. Is that meant to be in a non-hostile fashion, or in a surreptitious fashion, or what? Is this a scouting action, or a scouting-with-potential-for-diplomacy action?
Mathilde has heard a lot of stories about them, and they're right there. So she could check them out and see if any opportunities knock while she's poking around.
And I value opportunities where we're taking concrete action in pursuit of a specific goal (like gaining social ground with our fellow leadership, or even Chaos Vegas) over pure gachas.
 
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard

The PROPER OPTIONS.

[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger

Not Zhuf, therefore better than a Zhuf option. Not Elgi and therefore acceptable. Toss up between him and preceptor and the dice chose WULF.

[ ] Visit Uzkulak, the Chaos Dwarf equivalent to Barak Varr

HA

HAHAHAYOU MUST BE PULLING MY LEG.

A COLD, DARK DAY WHEN I VOTE TO VISIT THE FRURNDAR.
[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
CONSTANT VIGILANCE.

(trying IC voting, to enhance the meme)
 
I have a clear sense of what we stand to gain by visiting Chaos Vegas, but the combes are explicitly a "poke around and see if something randomly turns up" option.
For the record, going to combes will almost certainly give us something interesting to bring up with Qrech when we get back home. Even if the combes are entirely abandoned, it's something he'd probably want to know about.
 
With regard to the usefulness of social actions:


It is possible that the skaven combes will come up with something relevant to our expedition -- they might be interested in taking a shot at the convoy, or then again they might just be focused on fighting the Chaos Dwarves. It is definite that Ruprecht Wulfhart, who sits on the expedition council and commands a significant portion of the fighting strength, will be relevant to our expedition, especially if there's a social showdown near the end.

I don't blame people for wanting adventure, excitement, or the chance of high rolling. I just think that we need to keep our eye on the end goal and make sure we're in good political shape by the time we reach Karag Dum. This requires meeting all the leadership, and may require meeting some of them multiple times (as we are doing this turn with Borek). I have a clear sense of what we stand to gain by visiting Chaos Vegas, but the combes are explicitly a "poke around and see if something randomly turns up" option.


And I value opportunities where we're taking concrete action in pursuit of a specific goal (like gaining social ground with our fellow leadership, or even Chaos Vegas) over pure gachas.
Man, don't take this personally, but you can be such a bore sometimes... You were against the expedition in the first place, preferring using our AP for research, you were also against stopping in Karag Vlag because you wanted to keep up with an imaginary timetable of social meetings, and now you are against stopping for more side missions despite the stellar result of the last one...

Sorry, but you are not all that convincing, especially for the people who prioritize funnier but riskier approaches like myself and many others.
 
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It is possible that the skaven combes will come up with something relevant to our expedition -- they might be interested in taking a shot at the convoy, or then again they might just be focused on fighting the Chaos Dwarves. It is definite that Ruprecht Wulfhart, who sits on the expedition council and commands a significant portion of the fighting strength, will be relevant to our expedition, especially if there's a social showdown near the end.

I don't blame people for wanting adventure, excitement, or the chance of high rolling. I just think that we need to keep our eye on the end goal and make sure we're in good political shape by the time we reach Karag Dum. This requires meeting all the leadership, and may require meeting some of them multiple times (as we are doing this turn with Borek). I have a clear sense of what we stand to gain by visiting Chaos Vegas, but the combes are explicitly a "poke around and see if something randomly turns up" option.

He'll be relevant yes, the fact that we've talked to him and have a better sense of what motivates him will be relevant in a much much narrower set of circumstances.

I find your claim that being in "Good political shape" requires talking to people to be massively stretching the truth. There is every possibility that we could talk to someone like Wulfhart 3 or 4 times and the circumstances we meet during the expedition mean he makes the exact same choices he'd have made if we'd never picked him.
 
[X] Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson
[X] Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider
[X] Thane Borek Forkbeard
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
[X] Visit the combes that Qrech told you about
 
He'll be relevant yes, the fact that we've talked to him and have a better sense of what motivates him will be relevant in a much much narrower set of circumstances.

I find your claim that being in "Good political shape" requires talking to people to be massively stretching the truth. There is every possibility that we could talk to someone like Wulfhart 3 or 4 times and the circumstances we meet during the expedition mean he makes the exact same choices he'd have made if we'd never picked him.
yes but now can know how he will react so that we can choose what we do based on what the others are good at
 
For the record, going to combes will almost certainly give us something interesting to bring up with Qrech when we get back home. Even if the combes are entirely abandoned, it's something he'd probably want to know about.
You are technically correct, which I am forced to acknowledge is the best kind of correct, but I'm focused on "utility to the expedition" over "general interest factor" at the moment, as much as I love our large adult son colleague.
Man, don't take this personally, but you can be such a bore sometimes... You were against the expedition in the first place, preferring using our AP for research, you were also against stopping in Karag Vlag because you wanted to keep up with an imaginary timetable of social meetings, and now you are against stopping for more side missions despite the stellar result of the last one...

Sorry, but you are not all that convincing, especially for the people who prioritize funnier but riskier approaches like myself
It is not news to me that I am a boring person. I am not trying to convince you; I am trying to convince other people.
He'll be relevant yes, the fact that we've talked to him and have a better sense of what motivates him will be relevant in a much much narrower set of circumstances.

I find your claim that being in "Good political shape" requires talking to people to be massively stretching the truth. There is every possibility that we could talk to someone like Wulfhart 3 or 4 times and the circumstances we meet during the expedition mean he makes the exact same choices he'd have made if we'd never picked him.
And we won't know what his deal is if we don't talk to him. I don't like counting on unknowns, not when Boney has expressed a strong willingness to let social appearances be deceiving.
 
The way I see it, the combes and the chaos dwarves are synergistic actions since it opens to option of potentially using one against the other. Which might be useful right now if any/both of the two seem to muster forces against us.

Not to forget, having such information on hand might be crucial to disrupting any response for if we come back with spent forces and a convoy of Dwarven refugees.

Meeting everyone might be important if they were under our orders, as things stand however, it's Borek's responsability. On the other hand, as a grey wizard we clearly are the most suited in the whole group to investigate / infiltrate hostile settlements.
 
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Man, don't take this personally, but you can be such a bore sometimes... You were against the expedition in the first place, preferring using our AP for research, you were also against stopping in Karag Vlag because you wanted to keep up with an imaginary timetable of social meetings, and now you are against stopping for more side missions despite the stellar result of the last one...

Sorry, but you are not all that convincing, especially for the people who prioritize funnier but riskier approaches like myself
How about you drop the personal attacks out of your argument strategy.

It impresses no one.

(frankly, I would change my vote in protest of you going after someone like that, But I was on the other side to begin with)
 
yes but now can know how he will react so that we can choose what we do based on what the others are good at

We know what he's good at already, we've seen it in action. The idea that we need to know him so well that in the event a narrow edge case comes up we can optimally react to it (and it would have to be narrow, considering we often could just ask Hubert) is the idea i'm pushing back against. In the majority of circumstances our time is better spent checking off on things we have much greater marginal advantage doing.

And we won't know what his deal is if we don't talk to him. I don't like counting on unknowns, not when Boney has expressed a strong willingness to let social appearances be deceiving.

It's likely we won't know exactly what his deal is even if we do talk to him. It's even more likely whatever his specific underlying motivations are functionally don't matter, and he'll do his job competently regardless.

Meanwhile I also don't like counting on unknowns, and I find a much bigger unknown is the skaven posture towards the expedition that basically only we can look into. Rather than the specific desires of a guy that both has someone on the expedition that holds a job related to knowing about him we can tap if necessary (Hubert), and was appointed by someone we've never particularly been given a reason to distrust the competence of (Wulfhart Senior)
 
How about you drop the personal attacks out of your argument strategy.

It impresses no one.

(frankly, I would change my vote in protest of you going after someone like that, But I was on the other side to begin with)
I don´t think that I am insulting him in any shape, way, or form, I´m just saying that he tends to go for the safe but boring options basically all the time, but if @picklepikkl feels attacked or insulted in any way I apologize and I will delete the offending comment if requested.
 
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We know what he's good at already, we've seen it in action. The idea that we need to know him so well that in the event a narrow edge case comes up we can optimally react to it (and it would have to be narrow, considering we often could just ask Hubert) is the idea i'm pushing back against. In the majority of circumstances our time is better spent checking off on things we have much greater marginal advantage doing.
its not just what he's good at its how he will react
it would make no sense going after something he will go after and can handle on his own for example
 
its not just what he's good at its how he will react
it would make no sense going after something he will go after and can handle on his own for example

I'd appreciate it if you gave a concrete scenario, because generally I think it's pretty obvious how he'll react (as the commander of a group of monstrous cavalry) and it's not that difficult to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort with the forces we personally control considering how divergent the two areas of focus are.
 
I'd appreciate it if you gave a concrete scenario, because generally I think it's pretty obvious how he'll react (as the commander of a group of monstrous cavalry) and it's not that difficult to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort with the forces we personally control.
We do not know how he will react in a lot of cases. For example if we need to make quick decisions on what to do in combat and no one else in the council is around will he listen? Will he argue every time or follow our orders blindly? Whats his look on wizards? Does he accept or disdain us?
 
We do not know how he will react in a lot of cases. For example if we need to make quick decisions on what to do in combat and no one else in the council is around will he listen? Will he argue every time or follow our orders blindly? Whats his look on wizards? Does he accept or disdain us?
Mathilde is basically high nobility and she is the one who has recruited him and his wolves... I think that our authority pretty much overrides his own basically all times...

And he is a professional commander, if any of his superiors give an order he will obey.
 
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We do not know how he will react in a lot of cases. For example if we need to make quick decisions on what to do in combat and no one else in the council is around will he listen? Will he argue every time or follow our orders blindly? Whats his look on wizards? Does he accept or disdain us?

Well he decided to follow the local wizard into the mouth of hell... signs point towards not disdain.
 
I don´t think that I am insulting him in any shape, way, or form, I´m just saying that he tends to go for the safe but boring options basically all the time, but if @picklepikkl feels attacked or insulted in any way I apologize and I will delete the offending comment if requested.
Calling someone "a bore" is almost always an insult - albeit a relatively light one - for future reference the polite way of expressing the sentiment you're going for is generally "conservative" or "risk-averse".
 
We do not know how he will react in a lot of cases. For example if we need to make quick decisions on what to do in combat and no one else in the council is around will he listen? Will he argue every time or follow our orders blindly? Whats his look on wizards? Does he accept or dissdain us?

This is looking pretty edge case-y already just from the scenario. As for the actual questions I don't think they'd even really be solved by a social action, considering he's equal in rank with us whether he listens to us depends heavily on the context of the situation and couldn't be nailed down in advance. Whether he disdains wizards may or may not be found out from talking to him (depending on how well he could hide it) but also seems like it could likely be noticed by his reactions to us previously or again just by asking Hubert.
 
With regard to the usefulness of social actions:


It is possible that the skaven combes will come up with something relevant to our expedition -- they might be interested in taking a shot at the convoy, or then again they might just be focused on fighting the Chaos Dwarves. It is definite that Ruprecht Wulfhart, who sits on the expedition council and commands a significant portion of the fighting strength, will be relevant to our expedition, especially if there's a social showdown near the end.

I don't blame people for wanting adventure, excitement, or the chance of high rolling. I just think that we need to keep our eye on the end goal and make sure we're in good political shape by the time we reach Karag Dum. This requires meeting all the leadership, and may require meeting some of them multiple times (as we are doing this turn with Borek). I have a clear sense of what we stand to gain by visiting Chaos Vegas, but the combes are explicitly a "poke around and see if something randomly turns up" option.


And I value opportunities where we're taking concrete action in pursuit of a specific goal (like gaining social ground with our fellow leadership, or even Chaos Vegas) over pure gachas.

I'm going to try and convince you.

Political instability is a serious problem in any military campaign.
We should be trying to avoid it at all costs.
Just from this last battle we have several groups who put together a solid display, kept most of their side alive, killed demons and we are worried about their mental state regardless.

That is a military victory, that preserved our forces, preserved our strategic assets and was close to the best we could have gotten out of it.

We are still mostly united in going forward and getting better.

But the thing that causes real instability isn't those minor differences, it is what happens if we lose.
  1. If the Urmskaladrak gets taken out, or some of the other wagons.
  2. If our cavalry force takes massive casualties in an ambush we weren't prepared for.
  3. If a plague in the area takes half our forces and puts them down.

So what are our weaknesses they can exploit to effect that.
  1. Our steam wagons are irrepairable in the field, and have exposed wheels
  2. We are foraging off the land.
  3. Our mage contingent is highly visible for assassination.
  4. There are probably others, just getting this out quickly.

The combes are a major military line for Clan Moulder, they will have.
  1. Their own troops, a horde of mutated monsters like Rat Ogres, and possibly bigger. They can tear through the wheels of our wagons and mission kill this entire expedition.
  2. Their allies troops, Skryre have lots of artillery that with a suprise attack can start out b punching a hole in a steam wagon and mission kill the entire expedition.
  3. Their allies troops, Eshin assassins that can aim at our mages out in the field.
  4. Possibly a Grey Seer.
  5. Even without Pestilens, they may have taken plagues from them. They can try and poison the land we are foraging off and try and wipe out our cavalry.

We have plenty of insight into Skaven tactics we can put to getting them to focus on their own forces.
We have knowledge we can use to disable their artillery if it is anything like the ratling gun.
We know queekish and can write it, and fake orders to send them in the wrong direction. Like orders to attack the Chaos dwarves if they move against us.

The Combes are not a mystery box, they are hedging against one of the major militaries of this region launching an attack at the force moving through their backyard.
If they don't we may have wasted an action.
If they do attack us when we are unprepared, we will see a lot of political instability in short order, without ever reaching our destination.


Pulling an army together after a major defeat is the stuff of legends, mostly because normally your army just deserts.
On the lucky side we may even get benefits for ourselves from this adventure. But the main point of it is always going to be stopping the Skaven War Machine crushing us for intruding on their territory.

That is something noone else on this expedition has the experience to carry out, and that is why we should be going to the Combes, which are the Skaven front line for this stretch of their territory.
 
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