Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
Jreengus said:
The way I interpret the leading two plans with regards to Snorri shenanigans is that the leading plan has Snorri essentially getting Otrek to provide the entirety of the tools needed plus a little extra. Then on top of that it has Snorri doing an amount of work equal to what a regular Runelord could achieve in a decade so he can do effectively 10 "runelordyears" worth of shenanigans. The second plan has Snorri getting less aid from Otrek, just under the amount needed but it has his apprentices making up the difference so the total aid from others is equal, it then has Snorri doing work equal to 6 runelordyears which he can devote to shenanigans.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Aw right, it's time for soul cake's favourite genre of post: me interpreting the overflow mechanics. I bet he'll be thrilled to see this lol

So he's talked in the past about how not every project is created equal for the purposes of overflow, yeah? A great work can absorb more overflow usefully than a less significant job, even if the two nominally have the same action cost. My argument is that Snorri cashing in on a lot of favours to add to his own contribution is qualitatively different from him doing the whole shebang by himself or with the minimal assistance of his apprentices. You are of course correct that he could outsource the boring bits of the job to other people, and I'm sure soul's not going to limit himself to a bone-dry description of Snorri making pickaxes by the wagonload next update, but I still think getting the hold to fulfil the work on its own and then adding a bunch of work on top of that makes for a difference in emphasis that alters the story being told. It's less John Henry and more pinstripe suit secures shipment by calling the right guys in his rolodex, if that makes sense. I think going about the work this way makes it less significant to Snorri as a craftsman; it's obviously still important that it be done quickly and to a high standard, for humanitarion (uh, or dwarfitarian...?) reasons and because it's better for Snorri to overdeliver on his oath, but I believe the overflow ceiling is a little lower here than it might have been in a different context.

[X] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk
 
yannoshka said:
Except, you very much refuse to go whole-hog.
If you were actually doing so, you would have included CoV favors also.
Yet, you are not because that would potentially inconvenience you - not Snorri, you as players.
So please do explain why the favors of the Cult of Valaya are worth more than Snorri's actual physical time and effort? After all are those not earned by just that?
Your argument is hypocritical, not intentionally so I believe, but hypocritical nonetheless.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
One, you can make an argument that the CoV is already garnering its resources for another wave of expansions, spending favors there whereas Kraka Drak is imminently stable and has no pressing concerns it needs to stockpile for. Two, Snorri has far more influence and narrative association with King Otrek that it makes narrative sense we're focusing on leveraging our connections there. Three, this is essentially reductio ad absurdum and narratively calls into question literally everything we've done as 'half hearted' if we accepted this. The 'logical' conclusion of your argument is that we ought to spend 550 favor with Otrek, and all the CoV's favor as well if we want to claim we're going whole-hog.

One doesn't expect a man to beggar himself just to say he's committed to charity towards others. Yes. I'm for spending Otrek's favor over CoV, because he wants to repay it and it's something we have in abundance. Yes, I'm not advocating for spending 550 favor because for all I want to go over the top, there are fundamental limits to the amount of material and manpower that can be redirected in a short time span. You can't bake cookies in a tenth the time with ten times the temperature.

Now, you can argue that that applies to our current intent to overflow it, but that plan is self-evidently going to have fractional wastage at worst, pouring more favor into it at that point is just committing more to waste. If we assume we can only only commit a limited amount of resources effective, all those resources have relatively equal impact mechanically- then why shouldn't we use the resources that cost us less to use and have a greater narrative impact?

I've think we've given this pedantic argument enough screen time. Whatever the case, we're probably not spending CoV either way, and we certainly aren't going to commit more favors than the pro-overflow plans are advocating. This wasn't a productive topic for debate, merely a chance to argue for the sake of argument.
 
...Now I kind of want to see what 550 Kraka Drakk favor would DO on this.

I won't vote for it because it's dumb, but damn if that's not a hilarious mental image.
 
[x] Plan Team Chain
-[X] Render Aid: 1 retainer action
-[X] Hold Founding: 1 action, 1 apprentice action
--[X] Clerical Aid: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya
--[X] A Favour from Otrek: 50 Favour from Kraka Drakk
-[X] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: 2 actions
-[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: 1 apprentice actions
--[X] Accept
[x] Plan Build That Hold and Rune Metal
-[X] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: [Cost: 8 actions] 2 actions
-[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 1 Actions.
--[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
-[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.
--[X] Accept
 
[X] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk
-[X] Odd Places 8/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 1 Action.
-[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
-[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 2 Actions.
--[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
-[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.
--[X] Accept
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Adhoc vote count started by dbRevned on Dec 3, 2020 at 6:43 PM, finished with 321 posts and 121 votes.
  • [X] Plan Build That Hold and Take A Walk
    -[X] Odd Places 8/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 1 Action.
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 2 Actions.
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.
    --[X] Accept
    ... and 15 more.
    [X] Plan: Return of the Gift Giver
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. 3 Actions.
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] 70 Kraka Drakk Favour
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] 2 Apprentice Actions.
    --[X] Accept
    ... and 14 more.
    [X] Plan Build That Hold and Poke A Potato
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 2 Actions.
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
    -[X] Durazkul: [Cost: (4 -3) =1 action] Student of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc.
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.
    --[X] Accept
    [X] Plan Build That Hold and Rune Metal
    -[X] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: [Cost: 8 actions] 2 actions
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 1 Actions.
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.
    --[X] Accept
    [x] Plan Santa the Hold Founder
    -[x] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] 3 Snorri Actions, 2 Apprentice actions
    -- [x] A Favour from Otrek: Spend 50 Favour.
    - [x] Render Aid: 1 Retainer Action
    [X] Plan: Gift Giver - Karak crafter, Odd delver, Tuber tester
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. 1 Actions.
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] 60 Kraka Drakk Favour
    --[X] Clerical Aid: [Cost: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya] 10 Cult of Valaya Favour
    -[X] Odd Places 8/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 1 Action.
    -[X] Durazkul: [Cost: (4 -3) =1 action] Student of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc.
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] 2 Apprentice Actions.
    --[X] Accept
    [X] Plan The Potato Walk
    -[X] Odd Places 8/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 1 Action.
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: [Cost 6 actions] Productivity Like no Other will proc. This is a great deal of work, one devoted wholly to crafting, ordering and coordinating with the survivors of Dum to properly supply them with the material necessary to found a Hold. While technically less difficult, the sheer scale of material required will be more than enough to make such a thing quite the daunting task indeed. 2 Apprentice Actions. 1 Actions.
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: [Cost: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk] Can be taken multiple times. Gain 1 progress. You have some amount of influence on King Otrek. Normally you have little need or desire to ask him for aid, much to his dismay, but here the pull and weight of a King can be of great use. At the very least it will help the man lessen the crushing weight of the debt he and his Clan owe you. Sometimes you wonder if you went overboard. Bah, nonsense! 50 Kraka Drakk Favor
    -[X] Durazkul: [Cost: (4 -3) =1 action] Student of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc.
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions] Due whenever.
    --[X] Accept
    [X] Plan Team Chain
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: 1 action, 1 apprentice action
    --[X] Clerical Aid: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: 50 Favour from Kraka Drakk
    -[X] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: [Cost: 8 actions] 2 actions
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: 1 apprentice actions
    --[X] Accept
    [x] Plan: Return of the Gift Giver - All in edition
    [X] Plan Team Odd Potato
    -[X] Odd Places 8/10: 1 action
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: 1 action, 1 apprentice action
    --[X] Clerical Aid: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: 50 Favour from Kraka Drakk
    -[X] Durazkul: 1 action
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: 1 apprentice actions
    --[X] Accept
    [X] Plan Team Firebird
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: 1 action, 1 apprentice action
    --[X] Clerical Aid: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: 50 Favour from Kraka Drakk
    -[X] Firebird's Feather: 2 actions
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: 1 apprentice actions
    --[X] Accept
    [X] Plan Team Master Rune
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: 1 action, 1 apprentice action
    --[X] Clerical Aid: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: 50 Favour from Kraka Drakk
    -[X] Understand a Master Rune [Waking]: 2 actions
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: 1 apprentice actions
    --[X] Accept
    [X] Plan: Team Inspiration
    -[X] Render Aid. 1 Retainer Action.
    -[X] Hold Founding: 2 apprentice action
    --[X] Clerical Aid: 10 Favour from the Cult of Valaya
    --[X] A Favour from Otrek: 10 Favour from Kraka Drakk
    -[X] The Rune Metal Pt. 1b: 3 actions
    -[X] [Simple] Yorri's Request: [Cost: 2 apprentice actions]
    --[X] Accept
Click to expand...

Seem neck and neck so far
 
I do wonder if finishing odd places is what it'll take to upgrade student of the odd. If we could get that down to two actions to proc it would save a lot of time on research.
 
Mistakes in the vote option since all the others are like it two I believe. Unless hold founding can only be done by apprentice actions.
 
BungieONI said:
We don't need to expend actions to accept the Yorri Request, so its still just two actions. We just need to mark it down as accepted.

In this case my thought was to do Yorri stuff with the apprentices on turn 33.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
if i understand correctly if we accept a request, we say were going to start doing it, so we shouldn't actually accept it until we put the actions to it. (otherwise we get narative punishments for delays, if understand correctly from the example when it happened before)
 
I would like to posit one possible outcome from overflow here:

The Hold is going to be mobilized to assist by the King. Remember how Snorri had to go to all the various guilds and get them to communicate in order to get [various projects] done?

There will be many decade-long turns before the hold is founded. More than enough time to apprentice and graduate in a chosen Guild, and most of the Dum Dawi are considered young anyway.

In my opinion, overflow could easily look like Snorri and the King helping negotiate the apprenticing of more and more Dum dwarves (as well as the certification and verification of Guild Credentials for surviving Dum Guildsdwarves) after the supplies have been secured.

and what better way to ensure the new Karak feels able and enabled than to have them harvest supplies and refine supplies through their own Guildsdwarves? Apprentices some may be, and assisted by Kraka Drakk Guilds too, but the pride in being able to meaningfully contribute to the supplying of their future hold before it's even founded? Should do a dwarf some good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am for finishing off some of the small action researches and then going for Rune Metal. I agree that it is inspirational to those that know of us. There are many wonders to be made with the holy metal, and even chain would be well loved.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top