Codex
Fantasy Addict
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- She/Her
A magister who doesn't know how to dispel? Really? One of the most basic and useful spells out there not known by a Magister...
I find that hard to believe.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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A magister who doesn't know how to dispel? Really? One of the most basic and useful spells out there not known by a Magister...
I find that hard to believe.
CuttleFish2.0
Friendly neighborhood cuttlefish
- Location
- Seattle, Washington.
Because it's not the task we've been assigned. Belegar wants us figuring out how to communicate long term with the We and getting them out from the Chiselwards, Johann scouting Mors for his own personal projects is neither, therefore it is not us wrangling him to do our job but is rather us freeing him to do what he wants. Then, the the Citadel plans, we are using another of our actions to help him do this. That's two actions we're down doing our job, and the Gambler bonus applied to it as well. That's a lot of ivnestment on stuff that isn't the job Belegar tasked us with completing, leaving all the rest up to chance; a single enchanted item guarantees a single point of communication, Max could still fail to teach the We Reikspiel. What if we also fail at moving them beneath the Citadel? then the only thing we will have succeeded at is getting the enchanted item, which he could have done on his own.
- Location
- Norway
Dispel was maybe for him like aspblood for Mathilde, he keeps meaning to get around to it one of these years when he finally has a month to spare.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
A grey college magister not knowing basic illusions and how to turn invisible?
I find that hard to believe.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I am Mathilde Weber, and I'm here to ask you a question.
Is a man not entitled to trust?
'No!' says Ranald, 'For everybody lies.'
'No!' says the Grey Patriarch, 'No one is beyond suspicion.'
'No!' says Ulgu, 'What is trust, anyway?'
I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different.
I chose the impossible. I chose... the dwarfs.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
This is how we recruited him.
He never wanted this job and he would have been able to focus on his work full time if it wasn't for us picking him up. He'd already earned that right during the Expedition.
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Note that the intention of the Johann action is to kill two birds with one stone, that we gather intelligence and disrupt Clan Mors if that's required to allow the spiders to feed from the skaven enough. The spiders will need to learn the new tunnels and environment they're in, and Clan Mors are unusually challenging skaven to hunt, so easing them in gently is a good idea, and should contribute to Mathilde's job of successfully relocating them.
It does imply responsibility, but that's two way. We just had him travel to and from Altdorf and hang around there as a piece of theatre. Mathilde has arguably been treating him with respect. From his perspective, he could think that if she knows his rank she should know that he's been sent out on an official mission from his College, and she's been dicking with him for shits and giggles and interfering with accomplishing that mission.
He's not us, and he'll be operating on different presumptions. We need to resolve that and demonstrate that Mathilde hasn't been being a bitch just because she could. They need to have a meeting of minds here, as their partnership as two Magisters could be very productive.
It does imply responsibility, but that's two way. We just had him travel to and from Altdorf and hang around there as a piece of theatre. Mathilde has arguably been treating him with respect. From his perspective, he could think that if she knows his rank she should know that he's been sent out on an official mission from his College, and she's been dicking with him for shits and giggles and interfering with accomplishing that mission.
He's not us, and he'll be operating on different presumptions. We need to resolve that and demonstrate that Mathilde hasn't been being a bitch just because she could. They need to have a meeting of minds here, as their partnership as two Magisters could be very productive.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
See, there are two scenarios I can see:
The first is that he does know how to dispel, and he hid it. That would definitely be a scummy move, since it's a major asset that you need to know if your mages have.
The second is that he's a magister who truly does not know how to dispel. In which case I would simply be dissapointed.
Dude, one of those spells is Fiendshly Complex, the other is Moderately Complicated.
Dispel is Lesser Magic.
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I'll note that "figure out properties of silk" is also not exactly the job Belegar ordered us to do. It is spider-related, sure, but it doesn't have to do anything with finding a place for them to live or making communications with them better. So Johann is not exactly working on our job in any case - in fact, an argument could be made that our joint reconnaissance against clan Mors is more related to the job at hand, because it makes resettling spiders easier.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
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- She/Her
Johann's a lazy fuck but also a Magister in good standing with the Empire, trusted enough to study Skaven technology. What exactly is there to scope out? He told one lie; if you're really that irritated by it, then put him to work. Blowing so many resources on helping this shitter with his personal project is crazy. At least put the Gambler towards doing our own, actual job that we were assigned by our employer.
Cool, Mathilde is actual nobility, is a majority shareholder in a megacorp and actually has a relevant position beyond "bumming around" in the Karak. Moreover, she's a heroic tier character in her own right and doesn't need to appease this dumbfuck or have him like her. He can be as buttmad as he likes (he won't be, by the way), there's no reason to care.
Cool, Mathilde is actual nobility, is a majority shareholder in a megacorp and actually has a relevant position beyond "bumming around" in the Karak. Moreover, she's a heroic tier character in her own right and doesn't need to appease this dumbfuck or have him like her. He can be as buttmad as he likes (he won't be, by the way), there's no reason to care.
Did BoneyM post some WOG that I missed that fucking around with the Skaven would help with something not involving fucking around with the Skaven? It's equally possible that stirring them up would make the relocation harder. In the absence of QM confirmation, it's pure speculation. Moreover, poking the current balance of power that keeps the skaven backstabbing each other seems unproductive at best.
- Location
- Austria
I think us sacrificing our time to be a guide in what is, for all intents and purposes, his pet project, is a demonstration enough. No need to give him a vacation on top of it.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
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The task has "Current Task" written in the option itself. We know that means it's related to the task at hand. Poking around the Skaven isn't going to make the spiders any safer, it's supposed to further Johann's goal of stealing Skaven stuff, and maybe benefit us with loot too. We've already mapped out the area, and poking around isn't about causing mayhem or even killing Skaven.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
FlyingScanian
Tea Addict
- Location
- Land of Eternal Night
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
- Location
- Austria
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
We do have word of god that this won't be a problem.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I'm actually very sympathetic to those arguing we can order him to do something hold related and it wont be a problem he's drawing a salary from Belegar right now, we probably should direct him on something more in line with what Belegar wants especially as dungeon delving with him can be done regardless as he'll be doing it any way.
@veekie
If you're coming on later I would suggest that you change johans action to something more in line with Belegar as BoneyM confirmed that Our wizards will be spending 50% or less of their time on tasks we wrangle them for any way.
@veekie
If you're coming on later I would suggest that you change johans action to something more in line with Belegar as BoneyM confirmed that Our wizards will be spending 50% or less of their time on tasks we wrangle them for any way.
I don't understand why people think that "allowing" Johann to spend all his time investigating a specific Clan that we are voting on to select means that he is getting a vacation.
You know what? @BoneyM , how narratively different, if at all, would "Allow Johann to spend all his time investigating Clan X" be from a write-in to the effect of "Ask Johann to focus his investigations on Clan X?"
You know what? @BoneyM , how narratively different, if at all, would "Allow Johann to spend all his time investigating Clan X" be from a write-in to the effect of "Ask Johann to focus his investigations on Clan X?"
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
"Mathilde, we need to talk. This is the third time this year. You have a sabotage problem, and you need to acknowledge it."
Pretty much the same. Giving him a clear schedule means you can point him in a specific direction.
- Location
- Austria
"It's not a problem! I can stop anytime I want!"
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
That's not the issue, the issue is that the council job with Belegar is to trouble shoot issues Belegar brings to us. Working on the Mors issue would be nice but it's got nothing to do with what Belegar wants done hence the "Vacation" talk, they don't think he's literally going on holiday but he's certainly not earning his keep with Belegar.
- Location
- Singapore
1. We know nothing about Johann. Nothing at all - what makes him tick besides Skaven-tech, what he's like as a person, what a fuller account of his real set of abilities really are, why he accepted our authority (access probably), etc, etc. We do know, however, that the way we've decided to go through our current job takes us right into the area of operations we scouted ahead, the territory of Clan Mors, the new hunting ground of the Spiders whom we've decided to relocate underneath the Citadel. We do know that Johann is going to go off to raid the Skaven in his own time. We also know the Skaven are likely to bring in heavy equipment in response to the impending spider incursion - this is their MO that we've been told from their spiders. We know the colony has a best chance of thriving if we can deny them immediate access to those hard to replace heavy guns. If we can direct his raids to Clan Mors big guns, with our substance of shadows, we can help the We have a significant breathing room against the Skaven. Are we indulging Johann? No. Indulging Johann is letting him go straight off the Clan Skyre.
Basically, you are making a set of suppositions on Maybe's of Johann's personality. We have not got a good read on his personality, because we never really focused much attention on Johann to begin with. This is one of the best opportunities to get a closer read on Johann's personality while doing a job directly connected to Priority Alpha of this turn: resettling the We in the Under-Citadel.
What we are indicating, is that we are offering a measure of respect to him, that we are concerned about skaven activities (which we are) , we are willing to show him crucial intelligence that will be very helpful to him. We've already shown we aren't a super friendly boss by pushing him to Altdorf for three months for the sake of diplomacy with the Dwarfs. We should show we aren't an unreasonable boss. He being an employee is not carte-blanche to ignore him as a person. Nothing about pointing him at Clan Mors to steal the sort of weapons that can threaten the spiders, indicates coasting. Going on a stealing spree of difficult to immediately replace weapons that might force our allies to reconsider their relocation is not coasting, both of us are risking our lives out there to address a key concern of relocation.
2. What is our work? It's not to study the silk of the Spiders, oh no. Our first and primary task to the Dwarfs is to clear the Chiselwand and successfully relocate the We to the Undercitadel and ensure that there isn't a Skaven response that gets the spiders to reconsider Clan Mors as their hunting grounds. Prioritizing Johann to study spider silk in a turn where we are relocating the spiders to new hunting grounds is more likely to send a message to the Dwarfs we are not expecting him to contribute directly to the relocation, which is currently the key political priority for the Dwarfs. Every warpstone heavy weapon stolen, is one less threat to our new allies, one less threat to their relocation, since we reduce the Skaven's capacity to retaliate. How does Spider Silk show that confidence in Johann in a relocation op? What on earth does it have to do in a relocation ops, where the Spiders are "concerned" about Skaven retaliation?
3. Resettlement goes beyond a fortified positon behind already fortified Dwarven Lines. Resettlement includes new hunting grounds, which happen to lie in Clan Mors territory beyond Dwarven Lines. Poking around at Clan Mors to figure out how likely or quickly Clan Mors will react and attempt a reprisal is, therefore, an action that facilitates this resettlement, for it's going down to those hunting grounds as a preventive measure.
4. I find it unlikely the We are going to venture all the way past Clan Mor territory and into that third source of pressure, which we could not identify during our first trip to the Under-Citadel. The likelihood the We are going to be threatened by the third source is unlikely unless the Spiders are hunting past the current front lines of Clan Mors, a ludricous prospect because those frontlines make for very difficult prey. Unless Clan Mors is on the verge of collapse (and if it is, it behooves us to actually take another plunge into the Undercitadel, because this has big implications for the resettlement's hunting grounds), the third source of pressure is unlikely to be a concern to the We.
1. Lying about Magisters is playing silly bugger with the Dwarfs. We don't want to risk a diplomatic incident with the Dwarfs, that's why we had him go back to Altdorf to drop the masquerade. So yes, you are right - diplomatic fall out is the reason - we took Johann out of Eight Peaks for what he may or may not see as BS Political reasons. And I use may or may not, because we don't have a good read on Johann's character right now, which we may never get if this opportunity isn't taken.
2. We know Johann is going to plunge into Skaven territory for shopping trips, whatever we do. I dare say going into Clan Mors territory and showing what we know of the current Skaven political situation from our plunge there counts as need to know. Yes, Johann has the blessings of the College here. In this case, then, Operations security doesn't mean denying important intel to a crucial asset who is going to need it, to do a job that has been permitted by the institution we owe loyalty to who has judged that Johann may pursue.
3. There is nothing about the Citadel Vote that implies that Mathilde is upset at Johann's deception. That's not the motivation driving that plan.
It's easy to rephase the vote to make it clear we are sending Johann at Clan Mors because of our concern of the typical Skaven MO towards a Spider infestation - heavy warpstone weapons which so happens to be less replaceable than an actual Skaven and so happens to be assets Johann want and we are very able to deny to the Skaven. Take no chances, steal what we can and deny the Skaven the rest. It will still preserve the spirit and the rationale behind the plan.
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