No Glassware, they just didn't see any issue until people starting saying there was one.
Were you trying to be sarcastic or what?
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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No Glassware, they just didn't see any issue until people starting saying there was one.
Were you trying to be sarcastic or what?
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
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- Liberl Zemuria.
I don't like the fact that the Horizon guys are so powerful that they can put 42 ships most of with Are Capital class on our borders solely to try to influence minor powers into joining with them instead of us. And then there is the Amarkia situation. That one is truly bothering me for some reason. The Amarkia wont leave the federation. In fact they cant since they are now in the middle of Federation territory as well as long standing members of the Federation who have bled with us especially at the Battle of Kadesh when we were battling the Biophage. So why are the Horizonites sending a diplo team to talk to them. That part as I said bothers me.
Ghosts and Whispers, 2310.Q1. We track the Cardassians deploying 1/3 their fleet to the Straits of Themis through warp wake analysis. Starfleet goes to high alert. Starfleet deploys their war contingency. Federation-aligned minors go to high alert. Half of the member states go to high alert. Some member states offer ships. The Dawiar, Cardassian-aligned, demand an explanation for Cardassian presence in their space. The Cardassians eventually deliver an official statement of intent. It does not relax the alert status.
I am not trying to draw a perfect analogy here, obviously the HoH are not the Cardassians, but my point is that deploying ships on this scale will go to the point of governments demanding action and militaries getting nervous easily.
I am not trying to draw a perfect analogy here, obviously the HoH are not the Cardassians, but my point is that deploying ships on this scale will go to the point of governments demanding action and militaries getting nervous easily.
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[X] Focus on the Licori and OSA
Can we look at the flipside of all this for a second? If we for any reason wanted to send a 30-40 ship TF to one area, would that not raise flags for you the QMs? If we sent a 100C diplocmatic TF against the Hishmeri, who have aproximately 100C total in their fleet (and keep tons of civilians in many of their ships that aren't currently raiding,) would that not be seen as us the players practically declaring war on the Hishmeri? Wouldn't the President call Starfleet and ask why we want to threaten to wipe an entire species off the map? And aside all that, I think if, for example, I had made a deployment plan that called for sending 40 ships to TF Beyond, everyone else in the thread would have immediately gotten upset at me. "Derpmind," they'd say, "you can't do that! It's practically threatening to conquer all four governments at the same time. What are you, crazy?" Forget that we'd expect TFs to have diminishing returns for sending way too many ships. No one in the TBG community would support me trying to make such a threatening geopolitical move.
Can we look at the flipside of all this for a second? If we for any reason wanted to send a 30-40 ship TF to one area, would that not raise flags for you the QMs? If we sent a 100C diplocmatic TF against the Hishmeri, who have aproximately 100C total in their fleet (and keep tons of civilians in many of their ships that aren't currently raiding,) would that not be seen as us the players practically declaring war on the Hishmeri? Wouldn't the President call Starfleet and ask why we want to threaten to wipe an entire species off the map? And aside all that, I think if, for example, I had made a deployment plan that called for sending 40 ships to TF Beyond, everyone else in the thread would have immediately gotten upset at me. "Derpmind," they'd say, "you can't do that! It's practically threatening to conquer all four governments at the same time. What are you, crazy?" Forget that we'd expect TFs to have diminishing returns for sending way too many ships. No one in the TBG community would support me trying to make such a threatening geopolitical move.
Uh, personally I'd send 40 ships if we could spare 40 ships. To either the Hishmeri or the coreward border.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Pretty much this. 42 ships is an invasion fleet. no matter how you dress it up its a threat to the minor powers and to us.
"Briefvoice," they'd say, "you can't do that! It's practically threatening to conquer the whole species. What are you, crazy?"
(I'll be honest, I don't expect us to ever be in this situation - I expect the Federation Council would be pushing us to mothball ships and reduce expenditure if we were ever in a position where we might come close to this sort of surfeit of ships.)
fasquardon
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The Hishmeri, maybe we could have gotten away with that back when they were basically in an undeclared war with us, but we'd have had to give a lot of assurances to coreward powers. The border in general? I imagine the Trill would freak out a bunch, the Gorn would take notice, the Imelak and Lecarre would begin mobilizing...
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And as always, no one ever wants to have a Starfleet Intelligence officer bursting in on their meeting.
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[X] Focus on the Licori and OSA
Personally, I dont have any issue with the Harmony of Horizon being able to do this. I don't even have any issue with us allowing them, or surprisingky even with minors allowing it. I have an issue with the fact that noone looks at them askance for this, or almost certainly more.
Like, the Harmony of Horizon has the fleets to do this, that much is clear. They should 100% be able to deploy those fleets; on borders, on minors, on majors even, as their supplies allow. What they shouldnt be able to do is do so costlessly, and I dont refer to the opportunity cost.
Like, think about it. If this large a fleet was entering federation territory? It manifestly could do it (they have warp drives, after all), but we would tell them to leave or put restrictions on what they could do, at a minimum, and would be preparing for what we would do if they didnt comply. That minors lack this sort of agency deals extreme damage to the simulationist veiw of TBG, which in turn hurts immersion and SoD.
Personally, I dont have any issue with the Harmony of Horizon being able to do this. I don't even have any issue with us allowing them, or surprisingky even with minors allowing it. I have an issue with the fact that noone looks at them askance for this, or almost certainly more.
Like, the Harmony of Horizon has the fleets to do this, that much is clear. They should 100% be able to deploy those fleets; on borders, on minors, on majors even, as their supplies allow. What they shouldnt be able to do is do so costlessly, and I dont refer to the opportunity cost.
Like, think about it. If this large a fleet was entering federation territory? It manifestly could do it (they have warp drives, after all), but we would tell them to leave or put restrictions on what they could do, at a minimum, and would be preparing for what we would do if they didnt comply. That minors lack this sort of agency deals extreme damage to the simulationist veiw of TBG, which in turn hurts immersion and SoD.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
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The council would be screaming at us if we tried to send 40 ships to reinforce a border. Intell would be scrambling to find out what is going on the other side of the border and our member species on said border would be screaming for Starfleet reinforcements.
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Whelp. My attempt at diplomacy has very rapidly blown up in my face. There's a reason I used myself as an example. Sorry my post ended up being not so polite anyways.
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[X] Focus on the Licori and OSA
So the Harmony is all but declaring they are taking our border systems one way or another.
So the Harmony is all but declaring they are taking our border systems one way or another.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
@Briefvoice do we have any ships we can send to reinforce Task Force Beyond? We can draw down on some of the sector Garrisons and transfer ships from other task forces if we have too. I would really prefer it if we could reinforce Thuir somehow.
Like that one vote last year that we don't like to even acknowledge existing?
True that.
We're pretty much tapped out unless one of the TFs complete their mission in Q1 or Q2.
Unless you want to try for a State of Emergency...
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*twitches*
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
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What vote was that. I don't recall there being a vote like that?
The situation isn't that bad. Is it worth having the entire federation at high alert probably but State of Emergency. No its not.
Maelore
Totaly not a Romulan
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So how well do we think the Breen and the Romulans will take to a 42 ship fleet popping up on their borders. Because I really can't rationalize a way for those two powers to go "Oh it's okay they said they come in peace. They can't possibly be a threat."
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The Breen shift the balance of their capitals to the Harmony border and say "feck orf muh lawn"! The Romulans aren't really in a position to tell anyone anything, having just come through not one but two wars and loss of territory. Well, at least, nothing she isn't already doing: rebuilding frantically with that big Romulan family attitude of theirs.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
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Settle down Boss. remember fish are friends not food. *subtly reaches for a nearby meatshield.*
Maelore
Totaly not a Romulan
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Okay fair enough. Though now I really want to see the first HoH/Breen sit down diplomatic session. I imagine a lot of flat stares and pointed silence.
I think you mean the Breen say "#%*# £¥*# %^*¥!"
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I paraphrased out of the Classical for the new generation.