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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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So...the reason she is in a hurry and impatient is because not that she left her city unattended personally or its her personality, its just that she thought this is a quick routine kill fake savior and go home to maintain upkeep pokemons ASAP.

About the shades, i presume there is no longer any bodies or even gems. They are really an inch from real death. Even though allegedly they deserve it.

What do you think her Wish was?

"i wish to put my sisters soul out of this broken soul gem and into her body!"?
 
Shadowhisker said:
Have we figured out what Riona wants from us? We're assuming it's cleansing or something, but if high school taught me anything, it's to never assume nothing.
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Never assume nothing?

[Q] ASSUME EVERYTHING

The Narrator said:
Clear Seeds are human souls, and we treat them like property. We use them for our own ends and give them to others as gifts for them to dump grief into. If someone--quite rightly--told us to that the use of Clear Seeds was immoral and that we must stop using them and recover all the ones that we've given away, would we immediately comply?
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We'd explain Clear Seeds are a stopgap measure.

However, it wouldn't be strange for someone to just go on the defensive and not answer, I'd say, yes.


Redshirt Army said:
[x] ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LET RIONNA NOTICE THIS, KEEP YOUR EMOTIONAL REACTION TO THIS MUTED:
-[x] Calmly message Mami with grief, requesting that she not react and contact Homura for timestop, please.
--[x] You need to discuss what Rionna has said with Mami, Homura, and Sayaka to decide what to do. You won't commit to any action without that discussion first.
---[x] Keep calm, do not commit to hostile action against Rionna in your mind.
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Just to say, it would be far easier to not commit to hostile action, and to not show pretense of doing so, by not doing so.

If it comes down to it, we can throw a grief hand to the edge of our range and ask Homu trough Mami to use her power and grab it. Then cautiously move so we can talk.


Muramasa said:
We can treat Rionna's issue with souls as a long term issue. Same with Kyouko and Masami. We don't need to resolve this in a day.
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I have to admit I'm very scared of what Riona might do after this.

But I also think we shouldn't base our decision-making on our fears.

Problem is that, unless Riona is messing with us, she might just leave within 24 hours and I don't think we won't feel guilty of any further atrocities she commits.

Hell, now that she knows about Clear Seeds, she might pop by nearby cities, search, steal one from our friend/allies... And while that could theorically lead to Riona going home and not doing any more evil ever, it could also go the other way around. Badly.

Filraen said:
If Madoka is killed by being run over by a car while she's watching us talking with Riona, that might be troublesome too.

Try again.
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OK, I'll try again:

We're surrounded by ghosts.

Homura's power works on physical contact.

Ghosts obviously have a way to interact with reality, else they'd be useless (in fights).

Homura coming to us means she has to walk through the invisible ghosts not even our senses can pick up.

Homura might get surprised attacked by Riona's ghosts.

There. I tried again. Rate me.

skaianDestiny said:
We need to show her the Clear Seeds. Both so we know what exactly is going on with them and to show that we're not bullshitting about our intentions and ability.
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We kind of did? I think we're holding one in our hand. We just didn't let her take it because we can't trust her with it, yet.
 
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It seems very much like Rionnna is the soul-power equivalent of normal grief-controllers.

That is to say, her power is not going to be useful for fixing things. It's just a fairly nasty variation of power-copying, and Sabrina already knows multiple power copiers who are less awful and more flexible.

I really think at this point, serious consideration should just be given to saying, "OK, lady, I have a long-term project going to try and turn witches back into magical girls. I had hoped that you would be able to help with that, but it doesn't look like you can or would want to, and you're not here long enough to do any good, anyhow. What you do sounds morally abhorrent, but I'm not going to launch a preemptive attack on you either. So, I'm leaving. Good-bye. Go back home without hurting anybody or stealing any souls, and there won't be any trouble."

Basically, I don't see that she has anything useful to offer Sabrina, and she's not going to be helpful, so spending lots of energy trying to make nice is a waste of time.

Starting a fight is a bad idea, because she's clearly good at fighting, and came here ready for a fight, and is currently burning unsustainable levels of magic to seemingly do nothing. Just call it a bad deal and walk away. If the thread really wants to kill her, Edinburgh is not far away by grief transport, and then the fight can happen on something other than her chosen terms.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Easy, we don't. Rionna being potentially useful shouldn't be a factor in our judgement of her, and if she ends up gemmed, we can copy her power with Sayaka, Homura, and Kirika at that point, once Sayaka is already witchbombed.
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The main factor shouldn't be her usefulness, true. It should be the fact that we don't know for sure she's irredeemable and we don't want to break our streak of making idealism miraculously work. I don't want us to give up on the Golden Ending over this.

Also note that gemming her and copying her power is VERY similar to what she's doing with her shades. Let's not be hypocritical.
Adhoc vote count started by LendvaV on Aug 2, 2018 at 1:11 PM, finished with 142564 posts and 17 votes.
  • [X] Reaction: Disappointment.
    -[X] Calm down.
    -[X] Cleanse and offer cleansing.
    [X] Look Riona in the eyes. Put your cards on the table. Override interruptions.
    -[X] You woke up with the will and knowledge you need to help people.
    --[X] And you can. Your power is unprecedented in that it's real, it works, it has no side effects.
    -[X] Your goals are to:
    --[X] Free Magical Girls of the need for Seeds and territory. Allow them to have normal lives.
    --[X] Find a way to reverse Witchification.
    --[X] Help people. People aren't things to be collected and used.
    [X] Ask Riona:
    -[X] Whether she can help with any of that.
    -[X] What does she want?
    -[X] Why does she seem so keen on going back home empty handed?
    [x] Keep Rionna talking.
    -[x] Flat out tell her that you want her help with dewitching, and that you're offering her the cleansing she wants. Why is she so willing to leave?
    [x] ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LET RIONNA NOTICE THIS, KEEP YOUR EMOTIONAL REACTION TO THIS MUTED:
    -[x] Calmly message Mami with grief, requesting that she not react and contact Homura for timestop, please.
    --[x] You need to discuss what Rionna has said with Mami, Homura, and Sayaka to decide what to do. You won't commit to any action without that discussion first.
    ---[x] Keep calm, do not commit to hostile action against Rionna in your mind.
    [X] You don't care, do you?
    [X] Gem her if the answer is no.
    [X] Are you interested in curing witches or not?
    -[X] If yes, tentatively agree to work together for that one day and adjourn to update your friends on the situation.
    -[X] If not, 'I think we've talked enough for the day, and I need to confer with the rest of my team anyway. You have permission to remain in Mitakihara until your return flight, but if you reap any souls I will fucking shatter you. Feel free to contact me again if you actually want to do business.'
    [X] Discretely call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting with her, Homura and Sayaka
    -[X] Get them up to date with the meering with Riona.
    -[X] Discuss the next course of action
    [X]I think you're provoking me so you can get my power guilt free. I could use an insurance policy assuming dewitching research bears fruit to preserve my power but you already have an idea what that would cost. The power copiers I've met can't do it.
    -[X]Do you want to join me in dewitching research?
    -[X] If yes, tentatively agree to work together for that one day and adjourn to update your friends on the situation.
    -[X] If not, 'I think we've talked enough for the day, and I need to confer with the rest of my team anyway. You have permission to remain in Mitakihara until your return flight, but if you reap any souls I will fucking shatter you. Feel free to contact me again if you actually want to do business.'
    [x] Why?
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LendvaV said:
The main factor shouldn't be her usefulness, true. It should be the fact that we don't know for sure she's irredeemable and we don't want to break our streak of making idealism miraculously work. I don't want us to give up on the Golden Ending over this.

Also note that gemming her and copying her power is VERY similar to what she's doing with her shades. Let's not be hypocritical.
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Being unconscious is not the same as being used as a slave. Gemming her is more like prison.
 
By the way, given Riona should think we're 99.999...% an evil Grief Controller (because there shouldn't be any other sort, in a normal PMMM universe), starting by saying we're looking into de-Witchification is probably a bad idea.

We know de-Witchification attempts tend to go bad. Nadia thinks we're crazy for it.

If we just say that? Riona's head will fill with explode with alarms such that she will feel even more defensive, or worse.

This is why I voted:
[X] Look Riona in the eyes. Put your cards on the table. Override interruptions.
-[X] You woke up with the will and knowledge you need to help people.
--[X] And you can. Your power is unprecedented in that it's real, it works, it has no side effects.
-[X] Your goals are to:
--[X] Free Magical Girls of the need for Seeds and territory. Allow them to have normal lives.
--[X] Find a way to reverse Witchification.
--[X] Help people. People aren't things to be collected and used.
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Our reasons why we want and should be able to do something completely usually murderfreak crazy, I want those out of our mouth just before saying we want to do the crazy dangerous thing.
 
blast flame said:
When this is over we do research on the Iowa group now. I want to be able to know if they have tragic sob stories, their exact powers and the threat they pose, if we need to capture them, freezer them or go lethal. This maddening uncertainty cannot happen again.
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Yeah. It's becoming increasingly clear over the past few chapters that we are absolutely paranoid enough to be a danger to ourselves and others in the wrong circumstances. We need answers. For safety's sake.

------

As far as the rest of the discussion goes, I have a hard time remaining calm enough to say anything right now because I'm utterly horrified by some of the lines of action being proposed here. I don't like Godwinson's line of reasoning on Rionna's motives and I really don't like the idea of (quasi-)murder as a response to anything.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Yeah. It's becoming increasingly clear over the past few chapters that we are absolutely paranoid enough to be a danger to ourselves and others in the wrong circumstances. We need answers. For safety's sake.

------

As far as the rest of the discussion goes, I have a hard time remaining calm enough to say anything right now because I'm utterly horrified by some of the lines of action being proposed here. I don't like Godwinson's line of reasoning on Rionna's motives and I really don't like the idea of (quasi-)murder as a response to anything.
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I think its mostly recipricol, her last line is pretty threatening and mumi is nearby
 
[x] You flew half way around the world to find a real Grief cleanser, and you're just going to leave? No. You came here looking for something. Well, so am I. Let's deal.
[x] I'm trying to figure out how to turn a witch back into a person. The Clear Seed is the first step. They have thousands of times the capacity of regular Grief Seeds. One of these can keep a magical girl clean for centuries. And eventually we hope to enchant something that will do the job without needing souls at all. No more witchouts. No more used Seeds going into Kyubey's back for him to do god-knows-what to. No more need for girls to put themselves through this hell of hunting and fighting to survive. We can all just live like real people.
[x] When we no longer need Seeds to survive, we can start helping them, too. We've already gotten some small results from injecting positive emotions into the Clear Seed. Your soul powers might be the key to making this back into a Soul Gem.
[x] You fought the false Grief Cleansers because they were witching girls out. We don't want anyone to witchout either. We can make a world where no one does, ever again.
[x] Please. Help us.




Onmur said:
[X] Look Riona in the eyes. Put your cards on the table. Override interruptions.
-[X] You woke up with the will and knowledge you need to help people.
--[X] And you can. Your power is unprecedented in that it's real, it works, it has no side effects.
-[X] Your goals are to:
--[X] Free Magical Girls of the need for Seeds and territory. Allow them to have normal lives.
--[X] Find a way to reverse Witchification.
--[X] Help people. People aren't things to be collected and used.
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You're burying the lead again. She's not going to wait through the whole idealistic speech to get to the part about dewitchification. She'll say something to preempt you two lines in, just like last time.



Godwinson said:
Except that she just said she has to maintain her shades. That background level of grief accumulation is her norm.
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I find it far more likely that the high usage is due to her currently maintaining some powers, given how similar it is to when Sayaka is doing the same. She may have the powers of other grief users active to protect against us.
 
Godwinson said:
Except that she just said she has to maintain her shades. That background level of grief accumulation is her norm.
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Distinctly not proven.

She has to maintain shades. Seems plausible, given what Sabrina knows. Are shades constantly deployed? Does the upkeep cost change with distance? Does the upkeep change with the number of shades she has currently deployed? Does she currently have a larger than usual number of shades deployed?

Sayaka has a high upkeep cost while she's actively copying powers, but she can turn her power copies off and lose the upkeep, can't she? Riona may well be able to put shades in sleep mode to reduce upkeep, or something, that lowers her magic consumption to a more normal level. The amount she expends while traveling internationally to go fight hostile grief benders does not have to be her baseline, and likely isn't.
 
Muramasa said:
@Onmur

This line is passive aggressively judgmental and won't be taken well.
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Yes, I was thinking someone might object. I'll edit it out.

The Narrator said:
You're burying the lead again. She's not going to wait through the whole idealistic speech to get to the part about dewitchification. She'll say something to preempt you two lines in, just like last time.
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Just posted this, but to resume:
Onmur said:
By the way, given Riona should think we're 99.999...% an evil Grief Controller (because there shouldn't be any other sort, in a normal PMMM universe), starting by saying we're looking into de-Witchification is probably a bad idea.

We know de-Witchification attempts tend to go bad. Nadia thinks we're crazy for it.

If we just say that? Riona's head will fill with explode with alarms such that she will feel even more defensive, or worse.

This is why I voted:


Our reasons why we want and should be able to do something completely usually murderfreak crazy, I want those out of our mouth just before saying we want to do the crazy dangerous thing.
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If we just bring up de-Witching, something Nadia things we're crazy for wanting to do, Riona might take it in all the wrong ways.

Remember she wants to know how our power works. That might be a roundabout way of finding which flavor of evil grief controller we are.

So I think we need to, in some way, precede the de-Witching part by stating that we're the real deal, that we're different, and can make it work. Because we can make it work.

I agree it might be too far down in my current vote, though. I'd like a way to bring up de-Withchification without ringing all of Riona's alarm bells.
 
I think we're at a turning point for the entire quest, in which Sabrina is probably going to learn the hard way that she can't "play nice" and have it work out in her favor forever. In fact, if this was a quest that had "rewinds" I'd say that we're really close to a bad ending if something isn't done soon.

It's okay to be nice, but not too nice. Nice guys finish last after all.
 
Godwinson said:
I posted exactly how that would be true, for crying out loud.
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Are you suggesting that she can transfer her grief into other people's gems in her sleep? I doubt it.

If she was preying on other magical girls in that way, there's no way Nadia would have described her how she did.



Onmur said:
Remember she wants to know how our power works. That might be a roundabout way of finding which flavor of evil grief controller we are.

So I think we need to, in some way, precede the de-Witching part by stating that we're the real deal, that we're different, and can make it work. Because we can make it work.
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Demonstrating by cleaning our own gem might not be a terrible idea. We've done it before.
 
@Firnagzen Could we get a clarification on Rionna's grief accumulation, or is that too much OOC information?
Right now it seems that she's either currently doing something shady with her magic, that she's constantly doing something shady with her territory to keep herself supplied with Seeds, or that we miscalculated how many marbles fit in a Seed.
 
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