Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Roomba said:
She's not hurting anyone else right now, and we may be able to convince her to stop. We don't know what will happen if we gem or kill her: maybe the souls will stay as they are; maybe they'll disappear as if the owners died; maybe they'll be released and go back to their respective soul gems/bodies. If the only way for them to be released is for her to do it of her own will, then gemming her is really condemning them to eternal servitude, because we can damn well be sure she'll never cooperate with us again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

She's not hurting anyone else right now?

I think it takes a very particular ethical stance and set of assumptions about the mechanics of Riona's power and set of assumptions about the nature of souls to believe that Riona is not actively doing anything wrong to the souls in her custody. That's a fair amount of improbability piled up there.
 
Personally, I'm worried that Rionna is at least half expecting us to try gemming her. Any attempt at this will result in a fight, one where our opponent is not inclined to hold back. And Riona is powerful; she has to be. I'm expecting a fight at least as difficult as the one against building-guca.

Worst of all, we're in a hotel. There's probably at the very least a couple dozen muggles in here, in the line of fire. We don't want another Sendai on our hands.

In summary, until I get a more in depth vote up:

[X] Stay calm. Keep talking. Obviously, what Riona's done is massively fucked up. But you can't start a fight here, not with all these people around. Get more information, and get Rionna away from the muggles. Perhaps you could show her Warehouse-kun?
 
FeepingCreature said:
No that's plausible. Consciousness doesn't really do all that much. Sleepwalkers can go through their morning routine and drive their cars halfway to work.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She's holding their souls in servitude, proper souls. I wouldn't trust her with a crayon, much less near Mami, Sabrina, and Homura. I mean, with those powersets? She could become something of a physical god. And that's terrifying, cus she also seems the type to do exactly that.
 
Gadjo said:
She's not going to release them of her free will. She clearly sees nothing wrong with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

She doesn't see anything wrong with punishing criminals responsible for deaths of other meguca this way, if we believe her. That is a fairly Old Testament approach to justice, but it doesn't make her a sociopath who would just enslave people for no reason. If we make it a condition of our assistance that she release the shades, and that the victims instead be put in cold storage, we might get somewhere. Won't know until we ask, at the very least.

Reminder that Nadia vouched for Riona not being a monster. I doubt she'd do that if the latter just went around stealing souls for shits and giggles.
 
Gadjo said:
She's holding their souls in servitude, proper souls. I wouldn't trust her with a crayon, much less near Mami, Sabrina, and Homura. I mean, with those powersets? She could become something of a physical god. And that's terrifying, cus she also seems the type to do exactly that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, who wouldn't become God if they could? She's scary, sure. So are we. This is a one-shot prisoner's dilemma, and she hasn't attacked yet.

We don't attack people because we're scared of their power. That's not a character I want to read as my protagonist.

If we can't get to a C-C in a one shot PD, then what's the point of us?
 
Last edited:
Subrosian_Smithy said:
She's not hurting anyone else right now?

I think it takes a very particular ethical stance and set of assumptions about the mechanics of Riona's power and set of assumptions about the nature of souls to believe that Riona is not actively doing anything wrong to the souls in her custody. That's a fair amount of improbability piled up there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The people who are being hurt right now as a result of Rionna's previous actions are going to have exactly the same experience over the next few minutes whether we leave her capable of acting or not, just like everyone else in the universe outside the privacy sphere. This is the relevant distinction.
 
Shadowhisker said:
[X] Stay calm. Keep talking. Obviously, what Riona's done is massively fucked up. But you can't start a fight here, not with all these people around. Get more information, and get Rionna away from the muggles. Perhaps you could show her Warehouse-kun?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't trust her to not attack us, and if she doesn't, then I think she's going to see the intent on Sabrina's face. With her? Attack first, attack hardest, and knock her out before she can do anything to us.
Skelm said:
Bullshit. I see nothing wrong with not going in to work tomorrow, but that doesn't mean there's no way short of death threats to make me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Uh. I don't know about you, but personally I see a tiny little difference in morality in deciding to skip work as compared to uh, stealing the souls of people you don't like.
Roomba said:
She doesn't see anything wrong with punishing criminals responsible for deaths of other meguca this way, if we believe her. That is a fairly Old Testament approach to justice, but it doesn't make her a sociopath who would just enslave people for no reason. If we make it a condition of our assistance that she release the shades, and that the victims instead be put in cold storage, we might get somewhere. Won't know until we ask, at the very least.

Reminder that Nadia vouched for Riona not being a monster. I doubt she'd do that if the latter just went around stealing souls for shits and giggles.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's not even close to justice, and holding people's souls prisoner does kinda make her a monster, and I say we take no chances with that kind of thing.
 
She is mentally a teenager with a skewed view of morality. Be the bigger person and guide her.

[X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
 
Jiven said:
She is mentally a teenager with a skewed view of morality. Be the bigger person and guide her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is... a bit more than "skewed view of morality", given that she thinks it's okay to steal people's souls. I mean, hell she doesn't even seem to care about the possibility. If she were in any way a decent person the thought would be horrifying.
 
Gadjo said:
Uh. I don't know about you, but personally I see a tiny little difference in morality in deciding to skip work as compared to uh, stealing the souls of people you don't like.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So what? Rionna disagrees.

In general, someone who is doing something you think is wrong is probably not motivated by pure evil and so there's no reason to think it's impossible to convince them to stop.
 
[X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.

Lets take this slowly. Maybe we can turn this around. We're good at befriending people. Hope people, hope.
 
Tally incoming.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jul 29, 2018 at 10:21 AM, finished with 88 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Cut her hand off with grief, do not touch gem with grief, use hand for moving about. Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls.
    [X] Use grief to encapsulate and flash-vaporize Rionna's body.
    [X] Talk about Clear Seeds. Explain that you're distributing them to groups you trust, as a stopgap measure. Show Hildegarde and Aurora.
    -[X] Share your observations, explain your procedures. Ask Riona for her professional opinion.
    --[X] Explain the need for a more moral solution, and your hopes for, eventually, after much study, de-Witching. Ask for her help.
    [X] If she brings it up again: Share your theory of being created by magic: The unusual state of your soul, and having personal amnesia... but significant knowledge of the magical girl system, enough to know to make your wish.
    -[X] Ask what Riona's powers see in you.
    [X] Stay calm. Keep talking. Obviously, what Riona's done is massively fucked up. But you can't start a fight here, not with all these people around. Get more information, and get Rionna away from the muggles. Perhaps you could show her Warehouse-kun?
    [x] Explode her gem
Click to expand...
 
Skelm said:
So what? Rionna disagrees.

In general, someone who is doing something you think is wrong is probably not motivated by pure evil and so there's no reason to think it's impossible to convince them to stop.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No one is motivated by a desire to be evil. You can still be evil though, by ignoring the suffering of others. And frankly if she wants to disagree that it's any more wrong than minor laziness, that'd definitely be evil.
 
Gadjo said:
No one is motivated by a desire to be evil. You can still be evil though, by ignoring the suffering of others. And frankly if she wants to disagree that it's any more wrong than minor laziness, that'd definitely be evil.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So what? I don't care if she's evil, I care about the outcomes for the people involved. I do think that assigning her moral labels like they're an inherent nature is misleading you.
Aranfan said:
The only good slaver is a dead one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Do you think this because you care about her slaves well being, or for other reasons?
 
Last edited:
Disagree very much with all the fear mongering I'm seeing, to not use less kind words.

We're gonna tell this young woman how we're making everything better such that her methods become unnecessary and immoral without any possible justification otherwise.

We'll tell her we're fixing the issues she's seen, that we're making the world better, that we're turning witches back into sane human beings.

Then we can make our demands. She stops, she releases or puts the Souls back in bodies so they can be imprisoned humanely. Helped through their problems if possible.

We'll take care of it, she just needs to stop. Cooperate. Help make things better.

Give her a chance to agree.



Riona's not the first would be monster we'll find. She's part of the people we want to help, to give them a better life so they can, in turn, be better to everyone else.



We should not make any threatening moves, yet. I would like to have Homura grab Sayaka in timestop and bring her here so she can blast Riona with Antimagic if necessary, but Riona notices that and we've fucked up.

For now, keep talking, keep trying to solve things without destroying every chance of making things actually work.
 
Last edited:
Vebyast said:
Assume that she has shades saturating the volume so she'll get pulled into time stop if Homura gets close.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We know she doesn't have shades inside our privacy bubble, she tried to summon one earlier and it failed, furthermore I suspect she left a non-zero volume of them guarding her territory.

This assumption is excessive.

Vebyast said:
Assume that she has shades set as dead man's switches.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

How?

Vebyast said:
Assume she can operate as a soul gem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Maybe with time and practice, but I doubt she's ever been gemmed before.

Gadjo said:
While I'll admit, so far, if anyone deserves it it's her, we should try to rock her first. We can do that in an instant. If it becomes truly necessary it's in our back pocket, but I'd rather not open with that unless given no choice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If we start hostilities now, they will not end until she is either dead or permanently removed from the picture.

Once fighting starts, there will be no peace and no truce, and we will never get a another chance to just talk to her.

I just want to make that abundantly clear.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top