I'm begging people, don't vote to intervene. It's not a fun lark. It's the moment you'll look back on and go, "This quest sure self-destructed. Ah well."
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Origami Clock
Right twice a day
- Location
- Brighton, UK
[X] We should not intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
[X] We should not intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.
Bah, I still don't know for certain what to do and I'll probably keep arguing for intervention. But for now, I'll go with Stesk.
Bah, I still don't know for certain what to do and I'll probably keep arguing for intervention. But for now, I'll go with Stesk.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm only worried about it self-destructing insofar as I'm worried about quest participants deliberately sabotaging the game because of salt over how the vote turns out.
I'm not worried about that right now.
Are you saying I should be?
I think you should vote for what you think is right. Not for a stereotype.
Come on, this is one step removed from pure fear-mongering. I don't favor intervention myself, but the worst that could happen is humiliating peace, and even that is not without doubt.
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
Strawman harder, please.
The Cardies aren't nazis, they are totalitarians, yes, and have a lot of a fascist smell to their style, but... well, they are a bit different than canon ATM, due to events previous in this game no less.
Still, nice of you to ignore all other arguments for a nice idealist line.
From a realpolitic thing, letting the christovians fall means we might be able to put better roadblocks to further cardassia expansion, do note that even if they conquer, they will need to rebuild and garrison those worlds and that will take them time, time we can use to prop other Ashalla pact neighbours.
If we go in now, we might loose worlds to HOH, which as I mentioned before I feel are a real threat compared to the cardies, we might loose ships and personnel and still loose the war.... simply put: it is too far away and is too risky atm.
Now, if the cardies start doing crimes agaisnt sentients...
Still, not intervinign militarily doesn't mean no intervention. I am sure we might want to send in some of our intel assets and we might try and pressure cardassia politically (specially if we start signing mutual defense pacts with other of their neighbors)
Well, this sucks. I don't know what to vote.
There's been discussion what we can do if we go to war right now. What can we do if we don't? Ideas:
- Send the Explorer Corps to evacuate Chrystovian leadership and VIPs
- Assign Intel Reports to support a Casus Belli of our own to shore up our internal support
-- About the treatment of Bajorans, Chrystovians, Khooberians
-- About the truth of the claimed Cardassian Casus Belli against the Chrystovians
- Fortify
- Get out Keplers and C-Bs and Rennaisance refits
- Assign Intel Reports on Dissident Movements in Ashalla Pact we could support
-- Affiliate/Ally the Bajoran Diaspora
- Get in contact with the Alupii
- SIGINT support for the Chrystovians
- Blockade/Sensor Net around the Lecarre
- Expansion South for additional staging post in the direction of Chrystovia
- P-refits to solve the likely diplo-stalemate in the HBZ
- Bring the Gorn and/or Klingons onside
How plausible are all of these?
The most pressing question though: If we wait, can we declare an offensive war of liberation on the Pact without an immediate provocation on their part (which they won't give us if they're smart)? Because if no, the Cardassians can just continue a game of 'Haha, not touching you' whenever an outside distraction doesn't prevent us from reacting to them.
Gutfeeling is, if we wait but do stuff like publicizing atrocities, there'll be an upswing in Hawk/Expanionist support, which might be inclined to support an offensive war of liberation.
There's been discussion what we can do if we go to war right now. What can we do if we don't? Ideas:
- Send the Explorer Corps to evacuate Chrystovian leadership and VIPs
- Assign Intel Reports to support a Casus Belli of our own to shore up our internal support
-- About the treatment of Bajorans, Chrystovians, Khooberians
-- About the truth of the claimed Cardassian Casus Belli against the Chrystovians
- Fortify
- Get out Keplers and C-Bs and Rennaisance refits
- Assign Intel Reports on Dissident Movements in Ashalla Pact we could support
-- Affiliate/Ally the Bajoran Diaspora
- Get in contact with the Alupii
- SIGINT support for the Chrystovians
- Blockade/Sensor Net around the Lecarre
- Expansion South for additional staging post in the direction of Chrystovia
- P-refits to solve the likely diplo-stalemate in the HBZ
- Bring the Gorn and/or Klingons onside
How plausible are all of these?
The most pressing question though: If we wait, can we declare an offensive war of liberation on the Pact without an immediate provocation on their part (which they won't give us if they're smart)? Because if no, the Cardassians can just continue a game of 'Haha, not touching you' whenever an outside distraction doesn't prevent us from reacting to them.
Gutfeeling is, if we wait but do stuff like publicizing atrocities, there'll be an upswing in Hawk/Expanionist support, which might be inclined to support an offensive war of liberation.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Do note that I have not voted yet. Just listing viable possibilities.
I do not agree. There are many reasons to refuse to go to war other then that you cant win. Such how much winning would cost.
Not really? Christovians arent even affiliates. And rather far besides. Are we bound to interfere in any war that we judge without sufficient casus beli in our sights? I am not sure about that.
We would like to help them, but do we have to? Is that our duty? Can we afford to? What would it cost? Is it worth starting a war over it? With the countless more death that would cause?
We do need to make the Cardassians drop it or at least regret doing it though, or we can expect such behavior again.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
What's the point of playing as the Federation if you can't even be idealistic?
- Location
- Austin, TX
[X] We should intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.
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- He/Him
...Jerks.
[X] We should not intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.
We really need ships that will participate in this war elsewhere.
We really need ships that will participate in this war elsewhere.
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
We are the CNO of Starfleet, not a random captain with a plucky crew.
More seriously, idealism isn't bad, sustaining the federation's ideals is great even. But will going to war with cardassia at this point be inline with that?
We have reason to believe that at least part of the Cassus Belis from Cardassia is valid, it would be a strain to our logistic capability to do so, it would mean deescalating other commitments we really can't afford to.
Plus that sort of blind idealism is more TNG than current (speaking of which I hope we won't inflict space jammies on our crew)
cokerpilot
Here comes the rain.
What I find interesting about this whole thing is the argument going on in this thread is, while slightly different, Probably closely mirroring the exact debate going in the Council right now.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
This vote is close. Very close. And I don't know which way to go. There are reasons to choose either side, depending on what's important to you or how you value different things.
Assuming we do wind up intervening:
Assuming we do wind up intervening:
- Can/should we push the Hishmeri towards confronting the Imelak now when the Pact is distracted?
- Can we solicit the Ittick-ka to intervene and protect a fellow wanderer in the dark forest?
- Can we contact the Allupii and seek aid in some fashion? This is going to be their best chance for quite some time to push back against the Pact.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Ok, I have decided.
[X] We should not intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.
We like to help, but we are not the police, bound to help every time. We are not affiliated, we have had minimal contact with them. We can eat the diplomatic penalty, we are great at diplomacy, and we will outproduce and outscience the Cardassians in time. We will make sure to use every (other) lever in our arsenal to make them regret this.
Some might say that this is a proof that the Federation wouldnt help them. I say that we consistently help those around us, but that there are limits to our ability and willingness. We are not allmighty.
War is a no, for many reasons. The deaths, the destruction, the costs,, the many other threats and atrocities around us.
We can prevent this from happening again by befriending the powers surrounding Cardassians. We can also use politics to make great many enemies for them for this. There is also softer pressure we can apply, though it is less likely to help the Chrystovians.
This choice was made years ago. Changing our minds now is a bad idea.
I am also not entirely sold that intervention is the moral choice, considering the chance of war and the other atrocities that would lie unaddressed.
[X] We should not intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.
We like to help, but we are not the police, bound to help every time. We are not affiliated, we have had minimal contact with them. We can eat the diplomatic penalty, we are great at diplomacy, and we will outproduce and outscience the Cardassians in time. We will make sure to use every (other) lever in our arsenal to make them regret this.
Some might say that this is a proof that the Federation wouldnt help them. I say that we consistently help those around us, but that there are limits to our ability and willingness. We are not allmighty.
War is a no, for many reasons. The deaths, the destruction, the costs,, the many other threats and atrocities around us.
We can prevent this from happening again by befriending the powers surrounding Cardassians. We can also use politics to make great many enemies for them for this. There is also softer pressure we can apply, though it is less likely to help the Chrystovians.
This choice was made years ago. Changing our minds now is a bad idea.
I am also not entirely sold that intervention is the moral choice, considering the chance of war and the other atrocities that would lie unaddressed.
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- Location
- Germany
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Just because there's more to do than we can handle so we have to concentrate? That's a politically incorrect view.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
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- She/Her
I just want to say: in the Meta this is probably an excellent fucking episode. Enterprise is almost certainly at Earth right now because of the ratification, so they're right at the heart of the decision process. This is very much a Star Trek Moral Quandary.
- Location
- Germany
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- He/Him
under the assumption it includes a cost-benefit analysis.
- Location
- Kansas City area
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- He/Him
If we dispatch forces from Rethelia, can we send them with orders to simply show the flag and offer to coordinate efforts to undo damage to nearby prewarp populations? I don't want to send a squadron to simply die under Cardassian guns, and given the official casus belli, a Federation fact finding mission would be entirely appropriate.
- Location
- Germany
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- He/Him
In a ST episode, if the Council decides to go for peace, at least one captain would take things in its own hands and the Enterprise would be sent to call him back ...
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- Location
- Illinois
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And if we send it, and they find that there's nothing? We're in the same position as before, except the Chrystovians have already been conquered.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
1) Cardassians don't allow entry because of 'operational security and too dangerous'.
2) Cardassians allow entry to select planets. Hard S checks to find anything not matching propaganda (for that we'd had to visit unallowed to visit planets)