Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Not really. If they don't do any damage to each other you end up with this boring situation where they spend most of the fight bashing into each other and might as well not even exist.
That situation seems to be the intention of the narrative though, or at least that is my impression of it.

Swords fight swords unless both combatants choose to not have sword on sword action (i.e. full offensive) or one outmaneuvers the other.
 
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So we know that a damage specc'ed splying sword can take out a support specced flying sword in a few hits. I guess the missing part of the equation is how likely it is to hit.
 
I guess the best question is, do we want a support sword or an offense sword?
The support sword buffs our best "attacking" stat, and lowers the defense stat we frequently target.
The offense sword... hits like a 4th realm cement truck.
 
Few problems with "our sword will be attacked and break!" wave of fearmongering:
  • Half the lineup and our future opponents won't have offensive swords but rather defensive ones.
  • Picking a Domain weapon that doesn't scale with our uncapped skill means that when the sword isn't stealthed, it'll be even more vulnerable. Long-term we'll have both more domain dots and expression, and unlike stealth those dice will always be there even against stronger opponents.
  • While our buffs don't work for swords at the moment, we're more likely than any of our opponents to pick those up. That's if things like FVM's auto-debuff to targeted attack don't already work.
  • Worst case when we're up against a strongly offensive enemy sword, we can (and should) attack and debuff it ourselves. Offensive swords have poor self-defense, between our attacks and heavy AoE def debuffs it should only take a few turns to break one.

    Remember that fast, up-front heavy damage is the best way to take us down. Each turn the enemy sword has to focus on ours is one less we have to survive ourselves in those vulnerable first few turns. With a stealth sword we'd be playing a dps race against enemies more likely to specialize in that.
 
@Black Noise your first three points all read like "some day this won't be an issue" rather than a rebuttal to a current problem. After the tournament is said and done and everything is behind us then yeah the number of opponents that can burst down our sword will return to a lower percentage, but right now everyone that is going to have a domain weapon and matter will have an offensive one that can probably burst down the singing mist blade. And sure eventually one stat being uncapped will blow out a capped stat, but that takes a ton of stat xp that we arent exactly flying through. Finally some day we might get arts that will make our domain weapon able to take more of a hit, but again we have no clue when that will happen or when we will have time for it.

The singing mist blade does a bunch if very useful things, and I think most people would be ok with it being our domain weapon, but the idea that it will get bursted down before it can make much of a difference isn't fear mongering. It is just an inevitable risk with a slower building domain weapon that anyone with sense will want to stop before it can really shine.
 
Night's Edge has the highest AP, highest DV, second highest health, bonus damage, instantly stealths every round, and Meizhen recommended we get something stabby. This is stabby.
 
Few problems with "our sword will be attacked and break!" wave of fearmongering:
  • Half the lineup and our future opponents won't have offensive swords but rather defensive ones.
  • Picking a Domain weapon that doesn't scale with our uncapped skill means that when the sword isn't stealthed, it'll be even more vulnerable. Long-term we'll have both more domain dots and expression, and unlike stealth those dice will always be there even against stronger opponents.
  • While our buffs don't work for swords at the moment, we're more likely than any of our opponents to pick those up. That's if things like FVM's auto-debuff to targeted attack don't already work.
  • Worst case when we're up against a strongly offensive enemy sword, we can (and should) attack and debuff it ourselves. Offensive swords have poor self-defense, between our attacks and heavy AoE def debuffs it should only take a few turns to break one.

    Remember that fast, up-front heavy damage is the best way to take us down. Each turn the enemy sword has to focus on ours is one less we have to survive ourselves in those vulnerable first few turns. With a stealth sword we'd be playing a dps race against enemies more likely to specialize in that.

Ultimately I'm not so worried about uncapped expression vs stealth. In the long term we can probably uncap our stealth if we put work into it, and our chosen field of work with Cai (no take-backsies) will require high stealth.

I totally agree that our build is better than most for supporting a domain weapon and we already have techniques that will do so like MotV. But we also need tools that take advantage of our build, like useful combat minions. A flying sword with strong offensive capabilities and a self-defense ability is great because it synergizes with our support. The more damaging and more likely to survive our sword, the better it gets when we've layered down the debuffs, especially in the early-mid stages some have stuck but some are resisted/dispelled. Isn't damage output why we're shopping for an offensive sword in the first place?

A stealth weapon also has the advantage of picking and choosing exactly what to hit, because even duels have rarely been just 1v1. Troublesome flying sword? Spirit beast in the way? Enemy support? The best form of crowd control is dead, and just because we can't immediately murder the strongest cultivator doesn't mean we can't use fast damage. There have been fights we've been in where we'd have paid an arm and a leg for a bit of selective fast damage. Dark Dreams comes to mind.

The problem with characterizing the domain weapons in the same damage race as Ling Qi is that the sword duel follows its own rules. Burst against offensive swords is king, against defensive swords ability to pierce/ignore their defenses is king. We know that equivalent offensive weapons can't withstand a +10 die +4 damage DV12 sneak attack. A cultivator has all sorts of abilities to counteract attacks and escape bad situations, most domain weapons don't. If we were faced with a heavily offensive sword and, as you say, we are weak to fast damage like such a sword could deal, then our best move would be not to debuff it but to burst it, Falling Star Shot or Hoarfrost Caress.

I don't think tools like Singing Mist Blade or Sharp Note are bad at all, they're really good, some of the best tools we've seen so far! But they're anti-cultivator tools. The question of can we consistently apply them to the cultivator at the right time in the fight is completely relevant.
 
I think what we really lack at the moment is damage dealing potential, especially burst damage.
If I remember correctly, this also was what both, Bai and Cai agreed on as well.

This is why Night's Edge, as the best damage dealer among the options was my choice here.
 
I'm changing my vote.
[X] Night's Edge

The key point for me is that we aren't going to be the only one with a domain weapon. Our opponent will have a domain weapon too. In particular:
  • Our enemy is likely to use their domain weapon to take out ours. Unless our domain weapon takes theirs out first or defends itself somehow, it is liable to get destroyed a couple of turns in, which limits the use of weapon oriented towards helping in drawn out fights.
  • Given the way the narrative is developing, it seems like enemy domain weapons are supposed to be a very significant threat. If it is a defensive weapon, it might allow them to deflect our debuffs; if it is an offensive one, it could let the pierce through our defenses. The main way we would take out such a weapon in either case is with our own domain weapon. We could also attack it directly, of course, but we really aren't oriented towards direct damage, plus the enemy weapon would only take half damage, plus it would mean we weren't doing anything else. Thus, a major use of our domain weapon should be to take out the enemy weapon.

Basically, if we think of our domain weapons in terms of Party Roles, Night's Edge is a DPS while Singing Mist Blade is a Support. We could use both in a fight, but having a non-tanky support in our party is asking for them to be ganked, and pluss if they are responsible for actually dealing damage to their counterpart on the other team than I'd rather have a DPS in any case.
 
Sharp note is interesting, because while Night Edge is a DPS ally, and Singing Mist is a support ally, Sharp note seems like the best Anti-Cultivator flying blade. It reduces Qi recovery (Ling Qi's biggest counter-style) and when it's hit or counters, it attacks back for more Qi drain.

It's actually kind of worse than both Night's Edge and Singng Mist for dealing with another flying blade. Because it deals the same amount of damage as Singing mist and does not creating a reoccurring debuff.
 
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Sharp note is interesting, because while Night Edge is a DPS ally, and Singing Mist is a support ally, Sharp note seems like the best Anti-Cultivator flying blade. It reduces Qi recovery (Ling Qi's biggest counter-style) and when it's hit or counters, it attacks back for more Qi drain.

It's actually kind of worse than both Night's Edge and Singng Mist for dealing with another flying blade. Because it deals the same amount of damage as Singing mist and does not creating a reoccurring debuff.
It has +two damage bonus over Singing Mist, which is highly significant to its anti-weapon ability.
 
If Night's Edge wins, it's entirely possible that at some crucial moment it'll end a fight with a surprise backstab and make somebody spit blood!
 
The big problem with sharp note imo is that it again relies on being around late into the fight go really do its best work. No-one is really tossing back consumables early in battles, so sharp note needs to hang around and survive long term for that part of it to matter. It will definitely do some considerable qi damage before it goes down in counters, but if someone pokes it down they can then pop pills at will.
 
Sharp note is interesting, because while Night Edge is a DPS ally, and Singing Mist is a support ally, Sharp note seems like the best Anti-Cultivator flying blade. It reduces Qi recovery (Ling Qi's biggest counter-style) and when it's hit or counters, it attacks back for more Qi drain.

It's actually kind of worse than both Night's Edge and Singng Mist for dealing with another flying blade. Because it deals the same amount of damage as Singing mist and does not creating a reoccurring debuff.
Well that's because it isn't standalone. Like, when the enemy's Flying Blade is tied up, it's going to be dropping it's effects each turn without being contested. It doesn't need to do damage, it simply needs to be present on the battlefield and survive clashes with the opposing Domain Weapon.

Like, it has the highest amount of health between the top three contenders, and keeps up in terms of overall damage, is one of the two that benefits from uncapped expression, and basically dumpsters any and all possible attempts to escape the debuff spiral once it gets going.

Its an offensive element that effectively neuters any uncertainty about Ling Qi's attack strategy. People could come back from Night's Edge or Singing Mist...But they can't come back from Sharp Note.

It doesn't give us any 'new' options in terms of Cultivator vs Cultivator combat, but it eliminates the risks that already exist. Plus, given what I asked and how Yrs has described it, I honestly think that narratively Sharp Note is very likely to develop that Domain-combat specialty that I requested once we move on to Narrative stuff.

But that's speculation on my end.

Ultimately, Sharp Note is the perfect anti-Cultivator weapon...

When Cultivators are going to be our most relevant opponents for the foreseeable future.

The big problem with sharp note imo is that it again relies on being around late into the fight go really do its best work. No-one is really tossing back consumables early in battles, so sharp note needs to hang around and survive long term for that part of it to matter. It will definitely do some considerable qi damage before it goes down in counters, but if someone pokes it down they can then pop pills at will.
And if they focus on that, they're not focusing on Ling Qi and basically giving her more free actions to further widen the gap.

Early stages of the fight the enemy wastes actions on taking down the Minions that are worms or Mobile Oppression Fortress Zhengui, Mid fight they spend their time focusing on winning the Flying weapon clash, by the time they get through all those it'll just be too late for them to do anything about it to stop the death spiral. Assuming a bare minimum of two turns on the AoE side of things, and one turn on taking out Sharp Note, that's three uncontested turns for Ling Qi to set up the battlefield.

That's not something that you can come back from.

She's too tanky and too fast to be effectively caught once given the opportunity to layer all debuffs and self buffs uncontested. To even make things even the enemy would have to start burning dispels just to overcome FVM, let alone everything else, and by then we'll just keep layering everything back on.

It'll be the Neizhui fight all over again.
 
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Sharp note still a distant third place.
Also there is a tie, I guess.
Adhoc vote count started by Katreus on Apr 16, 2018 at 4:06 AM, finished with 58435 posts and 108 votes.
 
The key thing about consumables is everyone has access to the same ones for green. It doesn't seem like recovery items differ really as opoised to some cultivation pills.

If so, we know they only get 100 qi extra and so do we. So even if we don't apply it directly to the 100 qi, the diff in qi will be in the cultivators v cultivator and forcing someone into deficit early so that they resort to their items first is a death spiral.
 
The key thing about consumables is everyone has access to the same ones for green. It doesn't seem like recovery items differ really as opoised to some cultivation pills.
Sure they do, because long-standing noble families intrinsically have better access to better stuff.

Like, we certainly couldn't buy stuff like Meizhen's siegebreaker rod from the Market, right? Nor could Ling Qi arrange the renting out of a White Room herself.

For that matter, I half expect Sun Liling giving her own remaining minions the ability to tap into her own resources for the tournament as well.
 
So? They can still batter it into nothing in two to three rounds using their own sword, which is also how long it takes to start the resolve tests. I mean, Singing Mist Blade is a good idea and synergistic, but its specific weakness is that it has nothing to protect against or neutralize the opposing flying sword.

And 15m is not a very big AoE. Our melee range is 10m. In fights movement techs regularly take people 80m+ in a single round. It should be possible to intercept the blade outside proper AoE range, depending on the circumstances of the fight. Again, that doesn't make it bad, but those are the weaknesses.
What, no. Not only is it "take every possible worse case scenario as the truth", it also deeply misunderstand the combat system.

Singing Mist Blade is excellent from the first turn. It gets our system rolling from the get go, does good damage and weakens enemies on top of it. It is also very powerful against opposing flying swords, and it can reliably hit enemies because you can't block it.

Now, it is excellent from the first turn on because we have a debuff build, and as such we need to get the debuff ball rolling. Singing Mist Blade's Qi/turn loss is excellent if it manages to get to there, but logically speaking the first couple turns are the most important turns for Ling Qi as those are the turns where she is vulnerable and need to assert dominance... and this is where Singing Mist Blade shines.

Singing Mist Blade does excellent damage against other domain weapons and against opponents. While it 'only' has decent AP and decent DV compared to the other choices , those are excellent compared to actual domain weapons of non-monsters. As in, we can totally expect most nobles in green to have domain weapons roughly at the that level:
domain weapons said:
Glacial Fang
A curved blade carved from glittering blue tinted ice and inlaid with curving patterns of powdered onyx, whose touch freezes flesh and blood. Best used by cultivators who maintain a cool head in conflict. DV 9. Durability 10. Dexterity+Intelligence. Water. Deals 1 additional Cold damage on hit. 300 Red Stones

Falcon's talon
A long dagger of brilliant emerald, which strikes and flits away before the wounds it inflicts may even bleed. DV 7, Durability 10. Dexterity+Wits. Wind. Acts on user's initiative+4. 300 Red Stones

As for 15m AoE being small, this is a joke. Singing Mist Blade does not have a range of 15m, it has a AoE of 15m. Not only that, Ling Qi is constantly within 2/3 meters of an opponent during a fight. Arguing that our sword will never get in range of the opponent (when it probably has a significant range beside the 15m AoE) is silly.

None of those are the 'weakness' of the blade, it's a blade that excelles at blade vs blade combat. Less so than, say, Sharp note or Night's Edge, but not that much worse than the latter, as it also has its advantage of "can hit anything in the battlefield with impunity".

The problem of Night's Edge is that the fact it's not targettable if it stealths, means that we have to fight an enemy and their domain weapon at the same time first.
This is sadly not how stealth works. Once Night's Edge has attacked an opponent, it leaves stealth, and can thus be wrecked in a single turn like any of the other other domain weapon (except that most of our domain weapons actually have good dice and health so can't).
The big problem with sharp note imo is that it again relies on being around late into the fight go really do its best work. No-one is really tossing back consumables early in battles, so sharp note needs to hang around and survive long term for that part of it to matter. It will definitely do some considerable qi damage before it goes down in counters, but if someone pokes it down they can then pop pills at will.
My other big concern about the singing mist blade is how long will it last turn wise? I can't help but think back to Reshu's shield getting destroyed in one shot. The mist blade will become an obvious priority target with no real defenses, and I have to wonder if it will survive enough turns to really get the death spiral going if it is drawing attention from everything within 15 meters of it.
I don't understand why you think either sharp Note or Singing Mist Blade can be popped at will. Sharp Note is our best domain weapon vs domain weapon choice and the one that has the most chance to survive till the end of the fight and to wreck other domain weapons.

Singing Mist Blade is inferior there, but still in the top 4 choices for that, and flatly superior to any non-monster tier domain weapon... and if we are choosing a domain weapon for fighting against the monsters, sharp note is the best by far.
How does that stop them from attacking our sword and destroying it before it really gets the debuff stacks rolling? Hitting everyone in a large area seems more likely to draw fire and get it destroyed.
Because it has too high defence for that.

Night Edge is the one with lowest defence and the one inspiring the most fear, considering that assassin type are higher one the list of 'gank' than spiritual attack with no bonus damage.
 
This is sadly not how stealth works. Once Night's Edge has attacked an opponent, it leaves stealth, and can thus be wrecked in a single turn like any of the other other domain weapon (except that most of our domain weapons actually have good dice and health so can't).

Can you explain why Night Edge can't stealth at the end of its turn, and then come out of stealth to attack at the start of its next turn? As long as it can ever start a turn stealthed it can enter this beneficial cycle and be very hard to deal with.
 
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