@Kaizuki @Vebyast

Look, do we really need to just literally paste both your votes together with some if-else clauses?

We certainly seem to be in the process of doing that, don't we?

[] Convince Homura that Madoka's Wish guarantees she can find a Good End that satisfies both her and Madoka.

[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.

[X] Ask for temporary full hugging privileges.
-[X] And to sit down.
-[X] And to cleanse.

[X] You're going to do your level best to answer anything she wants to know to the best of your ability. She needs that. If she doesn't want to say anything right now you'll start with your thoughts on why this is working, because that was the most likely thing you made out, but if she wants you to start anywhere else or, or anything...
-[X] Tone and subtext: push her to engage in this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen.
-[X] Absent reason otherwise as pursuant to the previous two lines, subsequently:
--[X] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
---[X] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
----[X] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
--[X] Convince Homura that Madoka's Wish guarantees she can find a Good End that satisfies both her and Madoka.

That's X'ed in and posted. Can somebody get me a cite for why Homura cares that Madoka's wish is still helping if Madoka is uncontracted anyway? This seems like it has a logic hole in it or something...
 
So I haven't caught up on the thread yet -busy couple of days- but just for the record, feel free to go over the wordcount limit. It's there as a guideline because the votes turned into what were basically update dictations, but it's not a reason to dismiss a vote for being too long. If something needs more words to specify the meaning fully, then use them.
 
So I haven't caught up on the thread yet -busy couple of days- but just for the record, feel free to go over the wordcount limit. It's there as a guideline because the votes turned into what were basically update dictations, but it's not a reason to dismiss a vote for being too long. If something needs more words to specify the meaning fully, then use them.

...

breaks down laughing

THE TIMING THOUGH! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OH GOD THAT WAS GREAT
 
Can somebody get me a cite for why Homura cares that Madoka's wish is still helping if Madoka is uncontracted anyway?
...

Because it flatly and directly conflicts with her Wish?

Homura Wished that she could be the one to protect Madoka. If Madoka's Wish is what's doing all the work, then Homura has failed to complete her Wish.
 
[x] Wait to see if Homura has more to say.
-[x] If she doesn't, Vebyast's vote.

@Kaizuki ? Here.

I will... actually not repeat myself, quite.

This isn't about that, Redshirt. If you don't understand that then either I'm not communicating it well enough or you're not understanding what I wrote.

...

Because it flatly and directly conflicts with her Wish?

Homura Wished that she could be the one to protect Madoka. If Madoka's Wish is what's doing all the work, then Homura has failed to complete her Wish.

Whut? But she's still protecting Madoka. Madoka's wish isn't Madoka. Like this is basic math, Madoka wished that everything could be fixed, ergo whatever was causing Homura's wish to fail-state evaporated. Homura still has to do all the work. Madoka wished "could be fixed", not "would be fixed", which is why we still have to win the darn quest.
 
---[X] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
Okay, beyond all the big debate, I want to point out that I have a problem with this line, and the thoughts behind it: It feels like this line is ascribing literally every good turn of fortune to Madoka's wish. In the same way that the conspiracy theorist ascribes everything from the curvatures of the shadows on the moon landing to the price of pizza to the secret illuminati.

Stuff like echoes and late contracts? Sure absolutely. It's not something we're sure of, but we're looking into it and there's a definite mechanism behind it we can point at.

This on the other hand feels like a bunch of disconnected stuff. How you're tying in Kirika's wish is beyond me. and I don't even know what "Anri" there even means.
 
Well, apparently I'm going to be on a cell phone until Tuesday. That's great. So, uh.

[x] Godwinson
Nooooo, you've set up an infinite loop!

Only I can break it!

[x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself and her future by telling her to have faith in Madokami who has faith in her and Wished to fix everything.
-[x] The conflict between the promise she made to Madoka and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
-[x] Homura not liking herself.
[x] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
[x] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
[x] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
[x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
-[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
[x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.
[x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.
[x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.
[x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
-[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
-[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.

There, loop's broken.

I feel very meta right now. *leans on the fourth wall, headpats Sabrina*
 
Whut? But she's still protecting Madoka. Madoka's wish isn't Madoka. Like this is basic math, Madoka wished that everything could be fixed, ergo whatever was causing Homura's wish to fail-state evaporated. Homura still has to do all the work. Madoka wished "could be fixed", not "would be fixed", which is why we still have to win the darn quest.
You're going to have to convince Homura of that. And Homura is currently conceptualizing Sabrina as a manifestation of Madoka's Wish. She's going to ascribe any successes to us. Look at what she said last update! She asked why it was working for Sabrina. She's already having this problem!
 
Whut? But she's still protecting Madoka. Madoka's wish isn't Madoka. Like this is basic math, Madoka wished that everything could be fixed, ergo whatever was causing Homura's wish to fail-state evaporated. Homura still has to do all the work. Madoka wished "could be fixed", not "would be fixed", which is why we still have to win the darn quest.

You're attributing a level of logical reasoning regarding Homura's wish and Homura's promise to Madoka that is flatly absent from Homura's train of thought.

"Madoka's wish is saving Madoka" is not something that Homura will be inclined to accept without conversational finesse and argumentative power sufficient to break through her mental barriers.

This seems pretty obvious and self-evident, to me - perhaps because these sorts of thoughts about being useless were a key contributor to my own suicide attempt?

There are two issues here:
• If Sabrina succeeds because she's just better than Homura (more powerful, more charismatic, etc), then Homura is going to feel like her previous uncountable failures were because she wasn't good enough. Even after selling her soul, she was still a useless good-for-nothing unable to protect Madoka, and success only happened when someone else literally stepped in and did it for her.

• If Sabrina succeeds because of Madoka's wish, then all Homura's looping has ever managed to achieve was to finally, by near-pure luck, set up a state where Madoka wished to save herself. Homura's wish is unfulfilled (she wasn't the one to protect Madoka, Madoka saved herself), and her promise to Madoka (to not let her contract) was broken as well. And even Madoka's wish, rather then empowering Homura, instead made a new person out of whole cloth, because Homura herself was so useless at fulfilling her only goal and desire.


These two things must both be adressed. If they aren't, then the best case scenario is that Homura rejects her wish, hard. In the worst case scenario... Well. I mentioned that this was similar to my state of mind prior to a suicide attempt?
 
Last edited:
Nooooo, you've set up an infinite loop!

Only I can break it!

[x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself and her future by telling her to have faith in Madokami who has faith in her and Wished to fix everything.
-[x] The conflict between the promise she made to Madoka and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
-[x] Homura not liking herself.
[x] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
[x] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
[x] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
[x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
-[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
[x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.
[x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.
[x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.
[x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
-[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
-[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.

There, loop's broken.

I feel very meta right now. *leans on the fourth wall, headpats Sabrina*

Isn't this precisely update dictations?

We have done this so many times. A string of vote lines that we could feasibly work point by point if things went entirely as we hoped... that's usually interrupted because the other character decides to not let us steamroll all over the conversation.

This vote feels like the Sendai arc.
 
So maybe we should go back to the Leviathan angle?

"No matter how well things seem to go for me, I cannot be everywhere at once. My time is finite. [Examples of Homura's timestop being a force multiplier]. Even if this aspiring shadow government is protecting Madoka, you are still making it possible for it to do so. You are a part of that aspiring shadow government. It's like that picture of a person made of people from Hobbes's Leviathan. States are made of people. "
 
Last edited:
[x] Hold a serious conversation with Homura about the issues she expressed in the last post, doing everything you can to keep her actively involved in it. Aim to allay any fears she may have, explain as best you can anything she doesn't understand, and generally just help the poor girl not end up feeling like she's trash. Don't drop the potentialbomb.

This vote is good. It addresses what needs to be done. It isn't a frankenvote monstrosity that rolls over everyone's agency. This is good.
 
• If Sabrina succeeds because of Madoka's wish, then all Homura's looping has ever managed to achieve was to finally, by near-pure luck, set up a state where Madoka wished to save herself. Homura's wish is unfulfilled (she wasn't the one to protect Madoka, Madoka saved herself), and her promise to Madoka (to not let her contract) was broken as well. And even Madoka's wish, rather then empowering Homura, instead made a new person out of whole cloth, because Homura herself was so useless at fulfilling her only goal and desire.
Isn't reaching the middle ground here the exact point of the Madowish approach?

Both Homu and Doka do their part. Neither can ignore each other's wishes and stay in the extremes that hurt the other.

Doka already did her part. It's our job to get Homu to do just as well.
 
[x] Hold a serious conversation with Homura about the issues she expressed in the last post, doing everything you can to keep her actively involved in it. Aim to allay any fears she may have, explain as best you can anything she doesn't understand, and generally just help the poor girl not end up feeling like she's trash. Don't drop the potentialbomb.

[q] Do good and smart and wise things until you win the quest.

There's a certain amount of guidance that's implicit with this being a quest, and that vote seems lacking in that department.
 
You're attributing a level of logical reasoning regarding Homura's wish and Homura's promise to Madoka that is flatly absent from Homura's train of thought.

"Madoka's wish is saving Madoka" is not something that Homura will be inclined to accept without conversational finesse and argumentative power sufficient to break through her mental barriers.

This seems pretty obvious and self-evident, to me - perhaps because these sorts of thoughts about being useless were a key contributor to my own suicide attempt?

There are two issues here:
• If Sabrina succeeds because she's just better than Homura (more powerful, more charismatic, etc), then Homura is going to feel like her previous uncountable failures were because she wasn't good enough. Even after selling her soul, she was still a useless good-for-nothing unable to protect Madoka, and success only happened when someone else literally stepped in and did it for her.

• If Sabrina succeeds because of Madoka's wish, then all Homura's looping has ever managed to achieve was to finally, by near-pure luck, set up a state where Madoka wished to save herself. Homura's wish is unfulfilled (she wasn't the one to protect Madoka, Madoka saved herself), and her promise to Madoka (to not let her contract) was broken as well. And even Madoka's wish, rather then empowering Homura, instead made a new person out of whole cloth, because Homura herself was so useless at fulfilling her only goal and desire.


These two things must both be adressed. If they aren't, then the best case scenario is that Homura rejects her wish, hard. In the worst case scenario... Well. I mentioned that this was similar to my state of mind prior to a suicide attempt?


The important thing about Homura's wish isn't that she wished to save Madoka, it's that she wished to be the one who saved her. Her wish is a vehicle for reinventing herself into a person she can stand living as. To become someone worthy of Madoka's sacrifice.

She should have died, and Madoka should have lived. But that didn't happen. So she should become the cool person Madoka said she could be. And save her. Be the one to save her. Pay her back for all her kindness even though she can never pay her back and all the time she's failing and hurting her more and maybe she's making things worse and she's just failing and it's not getting better what did she wish for this for she was going to save Madoka she was going to be someone who deserved being saved.

If Homura doesn't save Madoka, she becomes a broken nutcracker, a worthless good-for-nothing that can't accomplish the one thing it exists to do. It doesn't matter if Madoka is 'saved' or not if the nutcracker didn't do it. Otherwise it has to live with the curse the Princess put upon it forever.

A Homura that doesn't save Madoka by her own efforts does not deserve to live. That is Homura's mindset. If everything is fixed by Madoka, her debt to Madoka grows bigger and bigger and she's going to see herself as the crying girl who was useless to do anything and lost her.
 
The important thing about Homura's wish isn't that she wished to save Madoka, it's that she wished to be the one who saved her. Her wish is a vehicle for reinventing herself into a person she can stand living as. To become someone worthy of Madoka's sacrifice.

She should have died, and Madoka should have lived. But that didn't happen. So she should become the cool person Madoka said she could be. And save her. Be the one to save her. Pay her back for all her kindness even though she can never pay her back and all the time she's failing and hurting her more and maybe she's making things worse and she's just failing and it's not getting better what did she wish for this for she was going to save Madoka she was going to be someone who deserved being saved.

If Homura doesn't save Madoka, she becomes a broken nutcracker, a worthless good-for-nothing that can't accomplish the one thing it exists to do. It doesn't matter if Madoka is 'saved' or not if the nutcracker didn't do it. Otherwise it has to live with the curse the Princess put upon it forever.

A Homura that doesn't save Madoka by her own efforts does not deserve to live. That is Homura's mindset. If everything is fixed by Madoka, her debt to Madoka grows bigger and bigger and she's going to see herself as the crying girl who was useless to do anything and lost her.

So my joke vote about putting Madoka's ability to make the fix things wish down to her looping building up her potential could have merit?
 
Isn't reaching the middle ground here the exact point of the Madowish approach?

Both Homu and Doka do their part. Neither can ignore each other's wishes and stay in the extremes that hurt the other.

Doka already did her part. It's our job to get Homu to do just as well.

Getting Homura to accept Madoka's wish is one of the few things I would call "prerequisites for victory" for PMAS. It's also going to be ludicrously difficult - on par with solving dewitching, in my opinion.

Vebyast's vote (now passed to Godwinson) seems likely to make some useful progress, in my opinion.
 
Getting Homura to accept Madoka's wish is one of the few things I would call "prerequisites for victory" for PMAS. It's also going to be ludicrously difficult - on par with solving dewitching, in my opinion.

Vebyast's vote (now passed to Godwinson) seems likely to make some useful progress, in my opinion.
In my opinion, it seems likely to crash and burn like the dozens of steamroll votes we have had in the past, that we seemed to have stopped doing with time, trusting in Brina pilot.
 
It occurs to me that-- in simple, overly blunt terms-- Homura's pretty much built her entire universe around denying Madoka any sort of agency whatsoever. How do we even deal with that, psychologically?
 
Hey. Hey guys. I was serious. Frankenvote here. How's this for a plan?

Also, yes, even if we go for something like this, it needs to be shrunk at least a little because this is ridiculous.

Also, pronouns and tenses do not match at all. Whoops.

Disclaimer: None of this is intended to be dialogue-pilot or update-direction beyond a truly impressive number of contingencies and if-else statements. If this needs to be more formatted to fit that last point, I'll do so. But please. Someone else, come up with a better compromise than this. Please.



[x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself and her future by telling her to have faith in Madokami who has faith in her and Wished to fix everything.
-[x] The conflict between the promise she made to Madoka and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
-[x] Homura not liking herself.

[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.

[x] It wasn't just me, though. It's never been just me. I've been handed so much, Homura. Everything we've done- it's been all of us.

[X] Ask for temporary full hugging privileges.
-[X] And to sit down.
-[X] And to cleanse.

[x] Tone: Quiet, gentle, explaining, reflecting, not lecturing. Where possible, address these points such that we try and at least get an acknowledgement of each of them. Preferably actual conversation so we have a bit more to respond to that how we've been having to divine Homura's mental state from a truly impressive amount of subtext.
-[X] Subtext of our own: Push her to engage in this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen.
[x] I've been given so much.
-[x] Knowledge
--[x] Literally a guidebook. Not just what people could do, or who they could be. You've got that. I was given narrative framing. Not just events, or information- I was given the exact information on which everything rests, and the certainty that it's the information that matters. The information that could change things, and a decent suggestion on where to apply it. That's something you've had to figure out on your own, yeah?
-[x] A power that specifically derails resource issues- the one largest and greatest tool that Homura hadn't been able to leverage before.
-[x] **gentle levity, sincerity** And I have you. I get to start with all this information, plus an Akemi Homura. **more serious** Don't sell yourself short. Everything I've done- I've said it before, but I stand on the shoulders of giants. You've done so much of the groundwork- my information, my knowledge, it all comes from what you've done.
--[x] Remind Homura of her contributions that made it possible for us to get this far.
---[x] All the times timestop was an epic force multiplier or let us get there in the nick of time.
---[x] Keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
---[x] Tracking down Oriko in timestop.
---[x] Letting us get to Sayaka in time to save her from the witch.
---[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
---[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
--[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
--[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that we're -just here to help her.

[x] If there's an indication during any of the above that this is not actually answering Homura's unspoken question, and that she is in fact still stuck on 'no, wtf, fine, I've fucking helped but this is literally still incomprehensible this loop is fucking weird what the hell is happening' or, alternatively, if we get through the above and it looks like the conversation still has steam to keep going:
-[x] But I there's more than that, we both suspect, huh?
-[x] I'm just going to say it- we've both got a pretty good idea where I come from. Why I'm here. **gently** Madoka's wish last loop was "I Wish that everything could be fixed", right? And... it's pretty likely I'm a result of that. Specially equipped to work on the fixing. A result of that, Homura. But... I don't think it's just me. And I have some thoughts about that.

[X] You're going to do your level best to answer anything she wants to know, explain everything we can think of, to the best of your ability. She needs that. If she doesn't want to say anything right now, that's fine. But please- if she wants you to start anywhere else, or elaborator or go back to a point, or, or anything...
-[X] Tone and subtext, once again: push her to engage in this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen.
-[X] Absent reason otherwise (as pursuant to the previous two lines), subsequently:
--[X] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
--[X] Lay out all your evidence. The timings of events; Nagisa. Echoes of could-have-been-timelines; Sayaka's behaviour. Opportunities that aren't always there; Asunaro. Etc.

--[X] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
---[x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
----[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
---[x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.
---[x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.
---[x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.
---[x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
----[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
----[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.
 
Last edited:
Hey. Hey guys. I was serious. Frankenvote here. How's this for a plan?

Also, yes, even if we go for something like this, it needs to be shrunk at least a little because this is ridiculous.

Also, pronouns and tenses do not match at all. Whoops.

Disclaimer: None of this is intended to be dialogue-pilot or update-direction beyond a truly impressive number of contingencies and if-else statements. If this needs to be more formatted to fit that last point, I'll do so. But please. Someone else, come up with a better compromise than this. Please.



[x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself and her future by telling her to have faith in Madokami who has faith in her and Wished to fix everything.
-[x] The conflict between the promise she made to Madoka and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
-[x] Homura not liking herself.

[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.

[x] It wasn't just me, though. It's never been just me. I've been handed so much, Homura. Everything we've done- it's been all of us.

[X] Ask for temporary full hugging privileges.
-[X] And to sit down.
-[X] And to cleanse.

[x] Tone: Quiet, gentle, explaining, reflecting, not lecturing. Where possible, address these points such that we try and at least get an acknowledgement of each of them. Preferably actual conversation so we have a bit more to respond to that how we've been having to divine Homura's mental state from a truly impressive amount of subtext.
-[X] Subtext of our own: Push her to engage in this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen.
[x] I've been given so much.
-[x] Knowledge
--[x] Literally a guidebook. Not just what people could do, or who they could be. You've got that. I was given narrative framing. Not just events, or information- I was given the exact information on which everything rests, and the certainty that it's the information that matters. The information that could change things, and a decent suggestion on where to apply it. That's something you've had to figure out on your own, yeah?
-[x] A power that specifically derails resource issues- the one largest and greatest tool that Homura hadn't been able to leverage before.
-[x] **gentle levity, sincerity** And I have you. I get to start with all this information, plus an Akemi Homura. **more serious** Don't sell yourself short. Everything I've done- I've said it before, but I stand on the shoulders of giants. You've done so much of the groundwork- my information, my knowledge, it all comes from what you've done.
--[x] Remind Homura of her contributions that made it possible for us to get this far.
---[x] All the times timestop was an epic force multiplier or let us get there in the nick of time.
---[x] Keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
---[x] Tracking down Oriko in timestop.
---[x] Letting us get to Sayaka in time to save her from the witch.
---[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
---[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
--[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
--[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that we're -just here to help her.

[x] If there's an indication during any of the above that this is not actually answering Homura's unspoken question, and that she is in fact still stuck on 'no, wtf, fine, I've fucking helped but this is literally still incomprehensible this loop is fucking weird what the hell is happening' or, alternatively, if we get through the above and it looks like the conversation still has steam to keep going:
-[x] But I there's more than that, we both suspect, huh?
-[x] I'm just going to say it- we've both got a pretty good idea where I come from. Why I'm here. **gently** Madoka's wish last loop was "I Wish that everything could be fixed", right? And... it's pretty likely I'm a result of that. Specially equipped to work on the fixing. A result of that, Homura. But... I don't think it's just me. And I have some thoughts about that.

[X] You're going to do your level best to answer anything she wants to know, explain everything we can think of, to the best of your ability. She needs that. If she doesn't want to say anything right, that's fine. But please- if she wants you to start anywhere else, or elaborator or go back to a point, or, or anything...
-[X] Tone and subtext, once again: push her to engage in this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen.
-[X] Absent reason otherwise (as pursuant to the previous two lines), subsequently:
--[X] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
--[X] Lay out all your evidence. The timings of events; Nagisa. Echoes of could-have-been-timelines; Sayaka's behaviour. Opportunities that aren't always there; Asunaro. Etc.

--[X] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
---[x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
----[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
---[x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.
---[x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.
---[x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.
---[x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
----[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
----[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.
Did you just vote for literally everything.

:o
 
Back
Top