I'm reading the implication that Homu knows it's working for us, the everything-fixer, because of the everything-fixing Wish.
I don't think it matters whether she knows that the Wish is why it's working for us or not. What matters is that it's working for Sabrina and not for her. This is what she wished to do, what she's spend the last decade in a Sisyphusian hell trying to do and getting nowhere, and now we're doing it and we're making it look easy. She feels redundant. She feels useless. She feels like she just wasted the last decade of her life and her soul. I don't think that telling her that it's because of Madoka's Wish will help, because Homura Wished to save Madoka, not for Madoka to save herself. She did that because she wanted to be Madoka's hero, and now she's decided that she's not, Sabrina is. And that means that Homura's Wish is not coming true.

We have to make her feel like she matters, like she's important, like she's still Madoka's hero.
 
We need Homura to be okay with Sabrina succeeding. Otherwise Homura tears it all to pieces because she wasn't the one to protect Madoka.
Hence my wanting to talk about how we need her to keep protecting Madoka in order for Sabrina to succeed at what Sabrina does.

Homura's wish wasn't to be the only one to protect Madoka. She was perfectly okay with Mami being team leader, for example. It wasn't until everyone else completely shit the bed a few loops in that she decided to go it alone.

Homura's issue in Rebellion wasn't (just) that Madoka did a thing, but also that the thing she did kept Homura from doing anything at all to help.

So, yes, talk about Madoka, but we also need to remind Homura that what she's doing now is still good and valuable in its own right.
 
Hence my wanting to talk about how we need her to keep protecting Madoka in order for Sabrina to succeed at what Sabrina does.
Hence my wanting to play up the fact that we're succeeding as a team. We need to change how she sees it from "Sabrina is succeeding" to "we are succeeding together" if not outright to "I am succeeding (with Sabrina's help... and the others too, I guess)."

Right now she's viewing our success as her failure. She needs to start seeing her own success. That's why I don't want to talk a bunch about the Madowish: it gives Homura no agency in the results.
 
No. If Homura reaches any of the conclusions we're worrying about, the conversation becomes "her vs us" and everything gets a shitload harder.

She's had plenty of time to do that in already. I wasn't allowed to play the "urgency" card you are trying to play during the metabomb votes when I knew exactly what was going on. And I won't condone it's being used here, either.
 
Gonna cannibalize the onmur vote down from what it is to what it should be.

[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.

[X] Ask for temporary full hugging privileges.
-[X] And to sit down.

[X] Ask Homura to talk to you. There is nothing she could possibly say right now to alienate you. Not when she needs a friend.
-[X] Cleanse.
I was thinking of cutting down to something like this just now so this confirms catgirl powers. Somehow.

[X] Kaizuki

Though I'm thinking whether we should add a direction to the part about Homura expressing her fears?

Generally, unsaid worries sound a lot worse than when they're put into words; maybe if we prod Homu along, ask questions about what we think she might be worrying about, that might help her.

-[] Help and encourage Homura to express herself. Interpret Homuesque. Is she...
--[] ... Feeling inadequate? (Useless?)
--[] ... Worried we're taking unnecessary risks?
--[] ... Thinking she couldn't replicate what we've done?
--[] ... Worried about relying on Madoka's Wish?

(Prompt lines half baked)

So, I'm thinking we could use the theories we've been crafting. Even if we're not 100% right on any guess, we could steer Homu to put her own thoughts into words.

Also,

[Q] Do not abuse hug privileges. :V

-[Q] ... Is she afraid Madoka will not want to go on a date with her?
 
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She's had plenty of time to do that in already. I wasn't allowed to play the "urgency" card you are trying to play during the metabomb votes when I knew exactly what was going on. And I won't condone it's being used here, either.
Remind me about the immediate ongoing harm you wanted to address. Or the crying girl sitting in front of us that needs a solution now.
 
Crediting everything to the Madowish isn't going to improve Homura's self-esteem issue. If it's all the Madowish's doing, then Homura's still feeling useless and not getting to fulfill her wish.

You know how we just spent all this time trying to get Oriko's restrictions lifted so she can have agency? Well, Homura needs agency, too.
 
[x] (If in the course of the conversation, bolstering Homura's sense of self-worth doesn't seem to be the issue at hand after all, break to voting.)
[x] (In the following, the use of first-person plural does not refer to Sabrina as usual, but to Sabrina and Homura and everyone as a group.)
[x] It's working for us. We did this together.
[x] Emphasize that we've accomplished as much as we have by being a team.
[x] Remind Homura of her contributions that made it possible for us to get this far.
-[x] All the times timestop was an epic force multiplier or let us get there in the nick of time.
-[x] Keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
-[x] Tracking down Oriko in timestop.
-[x] Letting us get to Sayaka in time to save her from the witch.
-[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
-[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that we're just here to help her.
[x] Provide much comfort and reassurance.
 
Remind me about the immediate ongoing harm you wanted to address. Or the crying girl sitting in front of us that needs a solution now.

Mami stumbles to her feet. She's transformed and swaying, eyes wide enough to show the whites all around. Manic and staring and terrified.

Her hands are empty.

She manages a step away. Toward the window. Her eyes don't leave yours.

And she stops, rocking in place. She falls.

A wailing sob. On her hands and knees, she scrabbles back to you, grabbing you roughly with shivering hands. She pulls you close, hugging you like a giant bolster.

"W-why," she whispers, shaking you roughly. "Why? W-why- y-you- why?"

Right here: "I'm not leaving you."

Instead, this:

"I-" you lock up for a moment, indecisive and terrified. You don't know what to say. You don't know what to do.

You just-

Mami wails, burying her face in your chest, shaking as she clings tightly to you. "S-sabrina- p-please-"

You just want everyone to be happy. You want Mami to be happy.

A thousand different responses go out the window. You vacillate on your responses, running them through your mind one after another. You come up with a hundred clever answers.

"S-sabrina-" Mami chokes out, giving you a little shake.

Nothing glib to fix this.

You swallow hard.

"I was scared," you whisper, so softly you have no idea if Mami can hear you. Louder, then. "I just- I was scared."

Mami stills, completely and utterly. Her ragged breathing drops to a slow roll.

"I wanted to help," you repeat, squeezing your eyes shut. "I didn't... I didn't know what to do, at first. But I- you needed a friend. I wanted to be that friend. I- I didn't have anything more than that in my mind at the time, just-"

You're crying, too.

You can feel the tears, slow and hot as they course down your cheeks to meet the rising pain clawing from your stomach.

You never wanted to hurt Mami. You knew this would. But it's something you had to do. She had to know. It wasn't right and you want to apologise for hurting her but you had to but it's not about you.

You choke off that train of thought, feeling Mami curl up, practically on your chest. Silent, helpless sobs shake her body.

"I was scared," you whisper. "I wasn't sure what to do and I- I just couldn't find a way to spit it out." You slump, letting your head thump back against the carpet because really, what changed?

You feel Mami's head move, a slow shake.

About right. She might not be answering you, but she might as well be. Nothing at all. Nothing changed. You didn't know how best to say it when you started this and you still don't know how to say it. You just had to do it.

"A-at first I was just trying to keep this away from Kyuubey," you say. The way Mami's arms tighten around you and her fingers dig into your back through the ribbons are enough to know she's listening, at least. "It- after it was gone, I, I- y-you were so hurt t-that I couldn't bear to put you through that again."

Mami makes a tiny, whimpering noise, shivering and curled up, making herself as small as she can.

The best you can do is to lean forward a little and try to brush your face against the top of her head. It's the closest you can get to hugging her without breaking the ribbons. Even that little gesture draws a shuddering sob from Mami.

You swallow, throat thick. Good intentions that pave the way to hell and all. "I-" You shudder. You can feel the Grief bubbling up in your Soul Gem, a rising mire to match the churning confusion in your gut.

But the floodgates are open now, metaphorically and perhaps just slightly less than literally with the tears you can feel squeezing between your eyelids. You clear your nose with a rough snort and you forge onwards.

"E-even then. Even then you meant s-so much to me," you whisper, almost choking on the words. Fresh tears well up, burning in your eyes. "I c-couldn't- bear to hurt you. I j-just-"

You shake your head. You... You need to clean your Soul Gem. It's not exactly dangerous yet, but still. You're going around in circles. A twist of your will pulls free Grief, sharp and acidic to your mind's eye as it infiltrates between the golden ribbons tying up your hand.

Golden eyes, reddened and puffy from the tears still streaking down her face, twitch open, sightless tracking the cloud drifting out the window. She makes a tiny, worried little whine, arms tightening yet more around you.

"I c-couldn't not tell you." Your voice cracks. "It- it's so much worse not telling you. I-I- can't keep something t-this important from you any longer. I care about you, I care about you so much and I want to stay at your side a-and just-"
 
Crediting everything to the Madowish isn't going to improve Homura's self-esteem issue. If it's all the Madowish's doing, then Homura's still feeling useless and not getting to fulfill her wish.

Well, that is another way to look at it. Failing so hard that the person you've been trying to protect had to step in and salvage everything. Again.

She might not actually feel that way about it, but I suppose it is a possibility.
 
Crediting everything to the Madowish isn't going to improve Homura's self-esteem issue. If it's all the Madowish's doing, then Homura's still feeling useless and not getting to fulfill her wish.

You know how we just spent all this time trying to get Oriko's restrictions lifted so she can have agency? Well, Homura needs agency, too.

Well, you don't have to credit everything to it, but I think your vote goes too far in the other direction by not mentioning it at all. It at least needs to be acknowledged, I think, lest we risk Homura perceiving our assurances as empty platitudes aimed at making her feel better. We should definitely point out that however much the wish is helping, it was Homura's determination that eventually made it happen (I don't think this is close enough to the potentialbomb to cause concern).

That wish is a massive elephant in the room. It's up to us to decide how much of our accomplishments we want to credit it for, but pretending it doesn't exist isn't an option.
 
[X] Kaizuki

When dealing with someone who is stressed out like this, one needs to be patient and listen. This isn't an argument or a debate. This is us giving a friend a listening ear.

If we interrupt her and start making arguments as to why she's wrong to think the way she does(and we don't even know for sure what she's actually thinking here), it'll only scare her away from sharing anything with us in the future.

We can bring up the wish thing, yes. We can tell her why she's actually been extremely helpful. We can tell her how she's truly been Madoka's greatest protector. Being a little patient with her and letting her open up first will not prevent us from doing these things.
 
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Just to make sure:

[X] Kaizuki

Let's let her set the direction before we dive into trying to non-deterministically address it.
 
[Q] I am only doing so well because of the wish to fix everything, which Madoka was only able to make because of you sacrificing so many universes to her. So really, this is all you.
 
We were meant to do something right here. Otherwise Firn wouldn't have broken for a vote. Homura just told us what her problem was. We have listened. If we let her keep going, we're not going to be listening, we're not going to be letting her share, we're going to be letting her spiral. This is a disastrous time to not take action.
 
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I'm inclined to agree, we should take action here, and not just react to things that happen. Remember the whole villains act, heroes react spiel from the first post? This is that: an opportunity to act.

[x] Veybast
 
I don't know that I have anything meaningful to contribute here, I don't really know who I agree with, and I must rush off to do some stuff before work, but I would like to point out that Homura is not a naturally vocal person. She wasn't before this whole debacle and she probably never will be; one of our strongest advantages is that we understand and respect that she doesn't want or need to talk very much. We get her in a way that most other people (particularly Sayaka) just don't, we can pick out what she means and what she wants and how she's feeling in a way that pretty much no one except Madoka ever has. I would argue to a degree that waiting for/encouraging Homura to "spit it out" is rather like waiting for Vesuvius to start smoking before you start running. I'm going to hand my vote to

[X] AuraTwilight

in case of updates because I suspect he's going to wind up on the right side of this. That may change when I get home from work tonight.
 
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