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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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TotallyNotEvil said:
... Are you serious?

I'm wondering if you are just trolling at this point. Let me reiterate: the veteran Witch Hunter, whom specialized in hunting undead, made Elector Count, died to a mob of trash-tier mooks.

You are completely ignoring the "full healing" does shit to prevent crippling. A very real, very likely result when engaging in any fighting.

Not to mention, well, fucking death. That's a bit of an inconvenient too, also known as "game over".

Not only its massively better in these two very crucial aspects, it can earn us uncountable favor and advantages in the campaign itself by healing or ressurection heroes and commanders.
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He actually died to internal bleeding something the Hysh book would fix.
 
Atam the Ork said:
Still have to deal with the fact that what ever killed you is still likely there and would probably just kill you again and the revive function probably only has one use during a battle.
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They probably would take their eyes off us once they kill us the first time, and we can use Mockery of Death to wait for an opening.
 
Atam the Ork said:
Still have to deal with the fact that what ever killed you is still likely there and would probably just kill you again and the revive function probably only has one use during a battle.
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Doesn't address:
A) Mid and post battle crippling.
A.1) Of self.
A.2) Of others.
B) Assassination.
C) Sabotage.
D) Allied forces pulling us out.
E) Alloed forces finishing the battle.
F) We won, but died due to wounds.
G) What we were fighting was almost dead, and we can kill it easily after full heal.
H) We literally have spells to disappear and to befuddle.
Guile said:
With 4 favour banked, that's 1 off from say, getting a Medallion of Burning Vengeance, the spell that can turn one hero unit against another with a will save.
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Which is useless if we are dead.
 
Barnes said:
On revive, a quick Mockery of Death on self until Mathilde has a chance to slink away?
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Mr Apollo said:
They probably would take their eyes off us once they kill us the first time, and we can use Mockery of Death to wait for an opening.
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Well it depends on how quickly the artifact revives you.

Also I don't think Mathilde first thought after returning from the dead would be to cast a spell she probably be understandably surprised.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
... Are you serious?

I'm wondering if you are just trolling at this point. Let me reiterate: the veteran Witch Hunter, whom specialized in hunting undead, made Elector Count, died to a mob of trash-tier mooks.

You are completely ignoring the "full healing" does shit to prevent crippling. A very real, very likely result when engaging in any fighting.

Not to mention, well, fucking death. That's a bit of an inconvenient too, also known as "game over".

Not only its massively better in these two very crucial aspects, it can earn us uncountable favor and advantages in the campaign itself by healing or ressurection heroes and commanders.
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Calm down. You are accusing people of trolling for having a slightly different perspective. Yes, Van Hal lost to skeletons, but any of these items would have saved them. Crippling is possible, but even crippled she is still a spellcaster and could probably go get healed for like 1 favor max.

And 4 favors is pretty big. Consider how much value we just got out of 1 in terms of spells.

There are lots of reasons to go down this path, but arguing against it is not trolling.
 
Also, I dont know a thing about Mockery of Death. Can it be used on enemies? It basically gives them false death right? Does it have to be on a willing target?
 
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Oh, and fun idea: if we'd decided to spend our time fixing up Sonningweise, we could have perhaps ordered a Vital Growth item for 2-3 Favour that allows crops to grow to harvest in 15 minutes. That is goddamn absurd. Even if it took a week to recharge or something, getting four harvests in a month would be quite a thing.
TimEd said:
Also, I dont know a thing about Mockery of Death. Can it be used on enemies? It basically gives them false death right? Does it have to be on a willing target?
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I think you have to touch them, but then if they lose the will save they just enter a near-death state until you let them out.
 
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[X] Regrowth - Ghyran, instantly restores someone to full health from any state up to and including 'recently dead'. -9 College Favours
[X] As a representative of the Grey Order, here to lend a hand where it can be of most use.
[X] As a researcher, here to investigate any strange and interesting phenomena that can be found.
​
 
Regrowth is really, really good, not going to argue that. But it's far from the only valid option. Even a simple Healing of Hysh turns "you're dying because you got stabbed" into "you'll be fine" and would have saved Van Hal after he was rescued- and note that if those dwarves hadn't showed up to bail us out, Regrowth would not have saved him, or us, because a full heal after we died would not have solved the "being swarmed by skeletons" problem. We'd just get killed twice.

Going for Burning Vengeance+Healing of Hysh, for example, would let us take the approach that if we make the battles much less dangerous in the first place by having our enemies kill each other instead of killing us, then we'll be far less likely to be injured in the first place and if we are it'll probably be a normal injury of some kind. That would almost certainly have a bigger impact on the campaign than a Regrowth item. "But what if a hero unit dies and could have been saved" is answered by "but what if a hero unit wouldn't ever have been injured because the enemy forces would have had hundreds or thousands less men because of all the killing each other they were doing"; we can't be certain of either of those scenarios.

Regrowth is the best option for keeping Mathilde safe, but it's not the best one for objectives other than "stay alive and intact".

Still, self-preservation is an understandable priority and well worth investing in.
 
But we have Dwarves as our meatshields. Healing THEM will make the battle easier and be more profitable in earning dwarven favours too.

Also Regrowth is a cool party trick
 
And that was the reason elves had pointed ears. It was so they can hear about the cool parties as fast as possible.

The 10% was so they can sneak in or not get kicked out.
 
[X] Regrowth - Ghyran, instantly restores someone to full health from any state up to and including 'recently dead'. -9 College Favours
[X] Nothing further was commissioned.

[X] As a representative of the Grey Order, here to lend a hand where it can be of most use.
[X] As a chronicler, here to record events.

We aren't really here in any official capacity of the Empire, but we ARE a Magister and thus qualified to claim to be a representative of the Order in complete honesty, and after the book with Asarnil I REALLY like the Chronicler, but dwarfs have Expectations of clear and honest reporting, so keep in mind that when we do stuff(though we had practice, because Asarnil was just as anal about his recording).

As for the items...dead man switch please. This place is dangerous and having a 1UP is very important
BoneyM said:
The same problem as last time quickly reveals itself - the stored Shyish drowns out any possibility of seeing the structure of the enchantment - and it's easily defeated by the application of a few coloured lenses.

(Why that works is a lesson in itself. As Teclis went to great lengths to teach, the 'colours' of the Winds of Magic are metaphors instead of actual pigments, they're just how the human brain most commonly interprets it - but there are some sensitive to the winds that perceive them as sounds or even smells. So why would coloured lenses have an effect on something that's not actually a colour? The answer is it doesn't. You expect it to, and so your mind filters accordingly. You could learn how to consciously do that, but you could just use a simple piece of coloured glass and spend your time learning other, more important things.)
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Hmm, a simple mnemonic device huh? Does that mean the Bright college uses Rose Tinted Glasses? :p
BoneyM said:
Modern enchantment is like modern construction, the use of mostly interchangeable building blocks to uniformly achieve the desired result. This enchantment is like construction of the barbarian shaman's time - natural materials heaped together haphazardly. It's mostly Shyish, but here and there it seems that another wind crept into the shaman's casting, tainting patches of it with Dhar, but it's actually what makes the enchantment work at all - the Dhar binds all too readily with any kind of magic, but without other Winds to draw upon it can't corrupt the Shyish so it merely acts as a sort of glue to hold the entire thing together. But it would mean that if they were taken out of a Shyish-rich environment or the safety of the crates for too long, not only would the magic inside become Dhar, but the enchantment itself would become unstable.

The overall structure is something like a net. An empty net lies flat, but a full net is round. And like a net, it has more joins than you can count, each needing to be woven together with great concentration, and if even one was missing the contents could be lost. The mind boggles at the amount of care and attention it would take to make just one of these, let alone the dozens that you found in the burial mound. As an thaumato-archeological artifact its likely of interest, but as a piece of enchantment it really is far too much effort than it's worth. Sure, it is a clever design for the storage of magical energy that any apprentice could manage if given enough time but you could think of better ways to achieve the same result with only slightly more advanced techniques - and you could work in a filter so that it would only absorb the desired Wind.
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Given what we know of Dhar constructs I'm pretty impressed, they managed to incorporate Dhar and keep it functional for centuries.
But on our part we can just make a magic capacitor for Ulgu. Actually pretty good idea. Ulgu comes and goes after all

BoneyM said:
Altdorf, you learn, is in mourning; the Empress is dead and her unborn son with her, leaving the Emperor without issue and his brother remains next in line for the throne. There is suspicion in the air, even though the finest physicians in Altdorf (most of which could also give you a good haircut) declared the death natural.
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Poison, as we just proved, is more than easy enough for a Grey Magister to slip into the imperial household.
BoneyM said:
You fill out your knowledge of the lower tiers of Grey Magic with the ability to give yourself the appearance of another with Doppelganger, the ability to cloud someone's mind to cause them to act unpredictably with Bewilder, and to create areas of impenetrable blackness with Pall of Darkness. But the real jewel of your learning comes when Magister Patriarch Algard passes you in a corridor, turns back, and asks you if you've learned Shadow of Death. "No," you say. Good, he replies, because you won't need it.

And in five minutes of rapid-fire instruction that takes you an hour after he's tottered off to absorb, he explains how to mask yourself in raw terror in such a way that you endanger the sanity of all who look upon you. It takes you a solid week in the training rooms until you manage it, but you grin to yourself at the possibilities inherent in such a potent spell.

[Studying Spells: Learning, 95+19=114]
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o_O

That is a thing.
That is a good spell to know in a battle. Especially against units known for shitty morale like Skaven and Goblins.
BoneyM said:
Finally, as the date of your departure rapidly approaches, one night you hear a scratching on the door to the alley and you exhale a breath and search around for the key and open it, and you're only slightly surprised to see a scruffy wolf pup looking up at you.

"Fine," you say to it. "But you better be house-trained."
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A familiar! A wolf pup is about as inconspicious as you can expect from a familiar I think, since it can be easily mistaken for a particularly majestic dog. Ranald continues to be best god

BoneyM said:
Piety: 20+1=21 - You know implicitly that Ranald exists, and that he watches over you, and that he's actually kind of insufferable. Ranald finds this entertaining.
Learning: 18+2+1-1=20 - The more you learn of magic, the more you realize how ignorant everyone else is.

Magic: 5+1=6 - You're beginning Magisterial Rank with a grasp of magic most spend a lifetime working towards.
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We continue to have better potential at being a priest than a wizard. Ranald is rolling around clutching his sides.
BoneyM said:
Aethyric Reservoir: The Familiar can absorb a spell targeted at itself or its master, holding it for up to several days and disgorging at will at a new target.
Link of Psyche: The Familiar and the Master have their minds linked, giving them the ability to communicate without words and increasing the cognitive ability and willpower of both as long as they are both conscious.
Lucky Charm: The Familiar and Master both tend to be more fortunate.
Magic Focus: Spells can be amplified through the Familiar, doubling one of its quantitative effects - range, duration, area of effect, and so on.
Magic Power: As long as the Familiar lives, the Master is more magically puissant.
Master's Touch: Spells can be cast through the Familiar - touch spells can target what the familiar is touching, the familiar's eyesight can be used to target spells, and so on.
Master's Voice: The Master can speak through the Familiar's mouth, both as a means of communicating and to cast spells if the Master is somehow prevented from speaking.
Voice of Reason: The Master becomes less prone to miscasting.
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You know, I'm just imagining the wolf being the Voice of Reason: "Master, do not cross the streams." "Master, that energy ball is bigger than your head, do not consume." "Master, you're drunk, stop casting"
Chronic said:
I inofficially call it "Plan Don't Become A Skaven". It helps us not to become a Skaven if a Grey Seer throws the Dreaded Thirteenth Spell at us. 2 Scrolls ain't enough to be liberal with them, but in a pinch, when a certain spell absolutely cannot be allowed to be completed they will be a lifesaver.
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Does the Thirteenth Spell work on Dwarfs? Because we're with a Dwarf force. No Skaven is going to bother with that compared to just launching a Doombolt or some variant that can kill both humans AND dwarfs.

Especially not when the Thirteenth Spell is IIRC, the Skaven equivalent to Patriarch level spellcaster and Dwarfs are good at dispels. If they're casting they'd be aiming at dwarfs, not the stealth wizard.

The stealth wizard is what the sharpshooters are for.
 
[X] Boon of Hysh - Hysh, instantly heals all wounds (but doesn't regrow anything missing), and cures any poisons and disease. -5 College Favours.
[X] Dispel scrolls (2 for -1 College Favours; can be taken multiple times)
[X] Second Portent of Amul (you get two rerolls at any time in the next hour) at a -3 College Favours

Reasoning.

Boon of Hysh: This is very solid healing magic, it heals all wounds and hypothetically if we get stabbed in the heart we can just activate it and be back to full health in the next moment. It also does poison and disease making it very comprehensive. The only thing it doesn't do is regrow lost limbs and considering we constantly walk around in chain equivalent and now our Aethyric Armour spell is probably around the equivalent of plate I don't think that's a huge concern (and if it does happen we can just spend a favour to have it regrown later)

Dispel Scrolls: These aren't for random use, if we see a fireball heading at someone we should let it go and shoot the caster. These scrolls are only to be used against enemy battle magic, preferably power battle magic the kind that change the entire course of the war. Battle magic has a tendency to cause the user to explode as well so even by disrupting a single spell we could quite possibly shut down a battle wizard for the entire battle (also attempting to dispel is quite dangerous, a safe way of doing so is very nice).

Second Portent of Amul: Rerolls are powerful and flexible, where a healing item can allow us to heal from a lethal wound a reroll can prevent that wound from occurring in the first place. Also it has far larger flexibility, for example if you're trying to sneak around and scout the enemy this could be vital in preventing a misstep that gets you revealed and surrounded where no amount of healing will help. Miscast a spell? then once again this can help prevent you from making that mistake in the first place. Access to two rerolls is a very powerful item even if it is subtler than regrowing an arm.



BoneyM said:
And after some thought, you put your usual grey hat you've been wearing since you were an apprentice on your desk, and put Abelhelm's leather hat atop your head.
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Wow, that's just awesome.

BoneyM said:
[ ] As an adventurer, seeking fame and glory.
[ ] As a mercenary, seeking fortune and payment.
[ ] As a warrior, here to hone your skills.
[ ] As a wanderer, not entirely sure what you seek.
[ ] As a representative of the Empire, honouring the ancient alliance between Man and Dwarf.
[ ] As a representative of the Grey Order, here to lend a hand where it can be of most use.
[ ] As a representative of the Colleges of Magic, here to provide magical aid.
[ ] As a chronicler, here to record events.
[ ] As a researcher, here to investigate any strange and interesting phenomena that can be found.
[ ] As an advisor, hoping to be a part of the council of the King when he takes his throne.
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Alectai said:
And as much as I'd like to say that our private motivation is "Because someone has to do it", we're not actually officially here on the Empire's dime--we're here because they're not pulling their weight damnit, but someone has to keep the oath, it might as well be us.
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Mr Apollo said:
Maybe rephrase it as 'A knight of the empire, honouring the ancient alliance between Man and Dwarf.'
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I agree with these motivations, I want to turn up because we want to give aid because of the alliance between Man and Dwarf.


[X] As a representative of the Empire, honouring the ancient alliance between Man and Dwarf.
[X] As an adventurer, seeking fame and glory.
[X] As a representative of the Grey Order, here to lend a hand where it can be of most use.
[X] As a wanderer, not entirely sure what you seek.


An additional note Dhar happens when you try to feed a life spell with metal and death magic or try to do a similar effect. It occurs when you just haphazardly throw all the local winds into your spell and force it to work through sheer will. Having a few completed spells that use different winds isn't going to suddenly create dhar.
 
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@veekie

You do know Magic is on a 1-10 scale, right? And 6 is a Peak Magister level of magic. 7-10 is Battle Wizard\Magister Lord level power.

Our skill in magic is genuinely as impressive as our Piety/Learning stats.
 
WorldSlayer said:
Dispel Scrolls: These aren't for random use, if we see a fireball heading at someone we should let it go and shoot the caster. These scrolls are only to be used against enemy battle magic, preferably power battle magic the kind that change the entire course of the war. Battle magic has a tendency to cause the user to explode as well so even by disrupting a single spell we could quite possibly shut down a battle wizard for the entire battle (also attempting to dispel is quite dangerous, a safe way of doing so is very nice).
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Worth keeping in mind that dispel scrolls are not the magic bullet you might imagine, since dwarf runepriests do nothing BUT dispel(and are thus very good at it), and that, after you use the scroll, they can and will just cast it again.

As the dispellers are well fulfilled by native dwarf capabilties, we are much better off focusing on the intrigue/stealth/recon/sabotage side, which dwarfs have less of.
Darik29 said:
@veekie

You do know Magic is on a 1-10 scale, right? And 6 is a Peak Magister level of magic. 7-10 is Battle Wizard\Magister Lord level power.

Our skill in magic is genuinely as impressive as our Piety/Learning stats.
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I'm aware, I'm referring to our Piety > our Learning.
With less trait buffs.
 
veekie said:
Does the Thirteenth Spell work on Dwarfs? Because we're with a Dwarf force. No Skaven is going to bother with that compared to just launching a Doombolt or some variant that can kill both humans AND dwarfs.

Especially not when the Thirteenth Spell is IIRC, the Skaven equivalent to Patriarch level spellcaster and Dwarfs are good at dispels. If they're casting they'd be aiming at dwarfs, not the stealth wizard.
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I'm pretty sure it works on everything.
 
veekie said:
Worth keeping in mind that dispel scrolls are not the magic bullet you might imagine, since dwarf runepriests do nothing BUT dispel(and are thus very good at it), and that, after you use the scroll, they can and will just cast it again.
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I'm aware dwarfs can dispel, but rune smiths are if anything more rare than wizards are so they can't be everywhere. Also if we're reserving these scrolls for battle magic then enemy spellcasters can't just cast again without any consequences, battle magic is dangerous and can easily cause you to explode so making an enemy wizard have to go through that risk again is very valuable.

Regardless the dispel scrolls are a 'break in case of emergency' not a magic bullet solution to be used whenever mildly convenient.

Basically I want them in case someone tries to drop a Purple Sun or equivalent on us.
 
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Priests should actually be more common than wizards I believe, but again, we're not on counterspell duty, we actually have enough Magic stat to self-dispel, and again, we're the stealth unit. You aren't looking for battlemagic being used on us very often. You're more likely looking at snipers and assassins.
 
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