Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Alas, Mathilde got the Sleeper Agent motivation instead of the one involving a divine patron.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Personally I tend to believe that elves with Teclis on top pulled biggest scam in the history by teaching and formalizing magic tradition in the way elves are best suited to. It nicely outlawed all existing non-elf-based traditions. "Have superior elf brain" my butt! It was a nice 'helpful' way to ensure that humans will never match elves when it comes to magic. Sure, it brought order, so it was not completely dickish move. But one needs to remember where elves interest really lie - with elves. If helping 'barbaric humans' allowed elves to cut human potential and reduce threat to elvish supremacy... well. Two birds, one stone.
Presence of Damsels in Bretonia is definite proof that it IS possible for a human to use more than one lore of magic. No need for 'superior elvish brain' or 500 years of apprenticeship - You just need to have correct tradition. Correct way of doing things. Just not necessarily hand-me-down, watered version of elven magic.
...but it seems that we are starting to drift off the subject now.
Claytonimor
WE WILL TAKE JERUSALEM
- Location
- Loudon, TN
You mean the priestesses of the Lady? Who, having a divine patron, neatly sidestep this whole issue? You're arguing with a brick wall, here.
- Location
- California, USA
Perhaps there is way for a human wizard to achieve the ability to use more than one Wind effectively, but that is extremely dangerous experimentation and I doubt it would be worth it.
Keeping in mind the level of attrition human training undergoes. If you want to trim the attrition down to an elf-acceptable level I'm pretty sure you'd be focusing very very heavily on developing and mastering each spell until it's as familiar as walking before you move to the next.
Damsels are basically the same thing as Chaos sorcerors and Nekeharan Sorcerors. They are people with wizard potential signed up for priest training, which lets them get a best of both worlds thing...but the Imperial pantheons are centered on two gods(Sigmar and Ulric) who hate magic as anything beyond Necessary Evil, and the other gods are dubiously neutral at best on the subject.
Instituting the Sorceror method was never going to be politically accepted in the Empire. Work with what you have, not what you wish you have.
Depends how one interprets Damsels. And there is plenty of room for intepretation here. But... let's not get into that. It would only spark further discussion - and Damsels with whatever lore inconsistencies of WFRP have nothing to do with Mathilda and her use of magic.
<sigh> Honestly, I only wanted to point my take on colleges and very propaganda-smelling way the history is told in WFRP. Fact that it's winners that write books. And now I'm kind of starting to regret raising the subject in first place.
Certainly not in this quest, unless BoneyM expliticely hints so.
Edit:
There is also that.
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- Location
- Memphis, TN
I mean if you don't want to trust the elf that has lived centuries longer than you have and experiment with an all ready volatile substance, the Warp/winds, by trying to mix two different types of volatile magic together without any divine help then go for it.
Just don't be surprised when/if you explode
- Location
- Germany
Is this discussion really relevant to the quest?
We are indoctrinated by the Imperial College, we are a mere journeyman and we have far to much to to focus on magical research of the most basic nature.
So this will never come up unless the quest takes some serious turns, okay?
We are indoctrinated by the Imperial College, we are a mere journeyman and we have far to much to to focus on magical research of the most basic nature.
So this will never come up unless the quest takes some serious turns, okay?
It's actually fairly easy for a human wizard to use more than one wind at the same time. It happens somewhat frequently, and the person in question is all, "gee, I don't know what the fuss is all about," and then they're all "THE FOOLS! THEY TRIED TO HOLD ME BACK! BUT I'LL SHOW THEM! I'LL SHOW THEM ALL!" and everyone gets a pretty solid reminder why there's rules about that.
The thing about human magic is humans attune really, really easily to magical energy. The whopper of a downside to this is their susceptibility to chaos corruption, but there's an upside - human wizards attune to their chosen Wind really easily and become better at it at a rate ridiculously faster than Elf wizards. For an elf with a thousand-year career trajectory and firmly-held prejudices against 'lesser' magic the mental and physical side-effects of this would be unthinkable, but for a human half of them aren't even downsides. A thirty-year-old human wizard might be nearing the pinnacle of their career; a thirty-year old elf wizard hasn't even begun their apprenticeship yet.
But it does mean that if you're using two winds at the same time, then the traces of magic left by the spells you cast mingle within you and combine freely, creating free-floating Dhar in the wizard. It is possible, and even technically legal, to stop using your chosen Wind, wait a little bit of time to 'detox', then start using a different wind. It's just, what's the point? You throw away all the effort you've spent getting good at your chosen magic to try to learn an entire knew paradigm without even having the benefit of being taught by that College. And if you've been permanently marked by one wind or another, then you'd have to either 'cure' it somehow or accept that you're effectively locked into that wind of magic.
Maybe there's a way that a human can cast so efficiently and cleanly that there's no free-floating magic left in their system and they can switch between Winds freely. But attempting to do so would be explicitly against the laws of the Colleges and the only way to know if it works is trying it and seeing if you go insane.
Anyway. Voting closed, writing has begun.
The thing about human magic is humans attune really, really easily to magical energy. The whopper of a downside to this is their susceptibility to chaos corruption, but there's an upside - human wizards attune to their chosen Wind really easily and become better at it at a rate ridiculously faster than Elf wizards. For an elf with a thousand-year career trajectory and firmly-held prejudices against 'lesser' magic the mental and physical side-effects of this would be unthinkable, but for a human half of them aren't even downsides. A thirty-year-old human wizard might be nearing the pinnacle of their career; a thirty-year old elf wizard hasn't even begun their apprenticeship yet.
But it does mean that if you're using two winds at the same time, then the traces of magic left by the spells you cast mingle within you and combine freely, creating free-floating Dhar in the wizard. It is possible, and even technically legal, to stop using your chosen Wind, wait a little bit of time to 'detox', then start using a different wind. It's just, what's the point? You throw away all the effort you've spent getting good at your chosen magic to try to learn an entire knew paradigm without even having the benefit of being taught by that College. And if you've been permanently marked by one wind or another, then you'd have to either 'cure' it somehow or accept that you're effectively locked into that wind of magic.
Maybe there's a way that a human can cast so efficiently and cleanly that there's no free-floating magic left in their system and they can switch between Winds freely. But attempting to do so would be explicitly against the laws of the Colleges and the only way to know if it works is trying it and seeing if you go insane.
Anyway. Voting closed, writing has begun.
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Or turn into Nagash I guess.
Grey order, though, is the one to think in terms of Elven Conspiracies and The Govt Doesn't Want You To Know. I think that's one of the reason the need to have the most deadly internal security of all Colleges.
Which is also against the laws of the Colleges.
- Location
- Germany
I guess Teclis didn't think to write down "Don't invent a new type of magic and try to become immortal ruler over the whole world with it" in the original statutes.
It took humans to make that necessary.
It took humans to make that necessary.
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
So instead of trying to use more then one wind it should be better to try an adapt the spells of other winds into the one you have.
Can we experiment with that? It might be really difficult though and not as efficient. If it works we would have tons of variety though.
That's more or less trying to adapt basketball dribbling techniques to golf.
That's basically what petty magic is.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Plan The Front Don't Need Us Yet
Wait, someone cannot be attuned to 2 winds of magic without getting dhar...
But there are workaround: Divine magic, where you channel your god power and Nagash Magnus opus: Necromancy.
FYI Nagash TORTURED the secret of dark magic from a Druchi. He realized soon that direct contact with Dhar would make him nuttier than a squirrel, so he created necromancy which is like using a shyish khebab to take the dhar steak from the barbecue to avoid burning your hands.
We could try doing the same with Ulgu, wielding it to manipulate other winds or Dhar or High Magic.
Yeah, higher up than the petties...you're basically trying to use a hammer to cook a meal instead of fire....with the note that Necromancy is basically sticking said hammer in fire to cook things on the hammer without directly touching the fire.
Which, I might note, still gives you crazy necromancers, so it's clearly not working!
@BoneyM, could You treadmark this? It is important piece of info.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm reading some serious hints from the QM to drop this entire idea chain because it's really dumb, super illegal, and guaranteed to end with us dead and or insane, but it might just be me reading into things too much.
It's not so much hints that you shouldn't talk about it, just that the end result of said talk should be that the rules exist for a reason and that you are not the second coming of Nagash.
And I think it's about time I put together a more official FAQ - I'll work on it after this update.
And I think it's about time I put together a more official FAQ - I'll work on it after this update.
It...isn't? We aren't going to drop 20 years of work for it...especially not when we have a mastered spell that's acting like an Arcane Mark I'm not sure is possible to remove without soul damage.
We also aren't going to find it relevant unless we turn up a Stirlander local with a talent for one Wind of magic who prefers NOT to say, learn to do Shyish, and we can send them on to the Colleges with the advice that where they are it's possible to change paths.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
.....nope I am not getting involved in this argument.
Instead why don't we imagine how hilarious it would be to use Burning Shadow in conjunction with a holy symbol of Sigmar to literally brand a vampire's face with it.
Instead why don't we imagine how hilarious it would be to use Burning Shadow in conjunction with a holy symbol of Sigmar to literally brand a vampire's face with it.