Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

[TheFourthman]

X-COM REFERENNNCE!

But yeah, it turns out we need transuranics to build the silos that we're counting on to store tiberium while we upgrade tiberium refineries to make more transuranics. I can't decide if this is a virtuous cycle or a chicken-and-egg paradox.

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It is more that the entire list of STUs is a pile of references. There are a couple of XCOM ones, some star trek, some star wars, some marvel. I need names and there is a fairly plentiful list in the science fiction of the 70s to 90s.

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I see you both hate yourselves as well. Terror from the Deep is a nightmare and I hope Zrbite remains just a reference. I still get flash backs to Crysallids and Lobstermen. Especially Lobstermen.

 

[Chimeraguard]

It reads to me like the Seoul Havoc factory is going to auto complete if we leave it alone for 2-3 turns.

I'd rather invest the military dice in a different project.

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Given how long we've been neglecting the Steel Talons for, committing more Treasury resources to finishing the project fast is fairly important.

Also, the faster both factories get rolled out, the faster ZOCOM gets a boost from the new Havocs.

 

[Lightwhispers]

I'm with this one.

This is why we need(ed) the point defense refits. To protect this one.

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They're a clueless sailor who absolutely doesn't get the political conversation there, but also is too proud of getting to go out and shoot at NOD to care.

[] Plan Auroras, Orbital Lasers, Liquid T, and Kudzu Tea

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I don't really think Auroras are going to provide as much benefit as some people do, but I like pretty much everything else in this plan, so it's in my "close enough to vote for" field, so far.

 

[Rakuhn]

Given how long we've been neglecting the Steel Talons for, committing more Treasury resources to finishing the project fast is fairly important.

Also, the faster both factories get rolled out, the faster ZOCOM gets a boost from the new Havocs.

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If we want to help the Steel Talons, we should complete the Brest factory, let the Seoul factory autocomplete, and put the dice (and resources) we would have used on the Seoul factory into one of the other Steel Talons projects.

That would let us complete our commitments to the Steel Talons faster, and save far more lives, than rushing the completion of a project that is going to complete on its own.

edit:

We would need to reduce progress needed on the project to move into omake finish range (so maybe late myomer but who knows when that will be rolled out).

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Reread the Havoc blurb (quoted on my previous post). The Seoul Havoc factory will complete when given either time (turns) or funding (dice).

 

[staplesdex2]

About that Tissue Regeneration blurb, maybe we should have Ranching Domes next turn as the results there led me to believe that it synergizes with it well.

 

[Theunderbolt]

This is very very blatant.

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Can the Aurora be built out of our current Firehawk Apollo plants?

 

[Ithillid]

About that Tissue Regeneration blurb, maybe we should have Ranching Domes next turn as the results there led me to believe that it synergizes with it well.

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Er, yes.

Human-Pig Hybrid Created in the Lab—Here Are the Facts

Scientists hope the chimera embryos represent key steps toward life-saving lab-grown organs.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Can the Aurora be built out of our current Firehawk plants?

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No. And no, you don't have enough Apollo capacity to build them there.

 

[Theunderbolt]

No. And no, you don't have enough Apollo capacity to build them there.

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Good to know thanks!

 

[Void Stalker]

Honestly beyond just the opportunity we have from Cherdenko getting Aurora online should also help when we make pushes into NOD territory- such as YZ harvest, massed Apollos escorting Aurora out to hit NOD formation and bases to let the ground forces follow behind to push them back in combo with shell phase 4 online should really help in that push. And we are going to be pushing into long term YZ and thus areas they are more likely to have some industrial capacity in turn we reduce what NOD has there. Meanwhile they are forced closer to the edges of the RZ which they may be able to hide in but if forced to put most of their industry into the YZ/RZ border areas and RZ areas that is going to have all sort of negative impacts on their industry.


Edit- Also will be useful when we establish the Karachi planned city to help suppress large NOD formations in the area.

 

[Dmol8]

Liquid Tiberium power is, compared to fusion, more scalable (used in vehicles and infantry laser weapons), probably more energetic, but also hell of a lot more dangerous and thus completely out of the question for Blue and Green Zones.

So don't expect it to fix our Power worries any. It could be used in Yellow and Red bases that don't warrant fusion (but we still have fission) and ZOCOM gear maybe (but then it blows up and gives the nearby soldiers Tib poisoning), but no large powerplant feeding into our grid I am near certain, as building those in Yellow or Red would be... dangerous, and difficult.

We should probably look into it one day, but I don't see why it should be a priority. Especially now that Philly is coming up and we need more Rs asap. Maybe if Nod pulls something impressive with it that we cant manage without it, in places that don't mind some Tiberium explosions from time to time.

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we could always use liquid tiberium in space based applications. powering space stations?

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Honestly? I think we should research Liquid Tiberium after we get options for building on Venus as that planet is currently a full on Red Zone as far as our population is concerned and we don't have to worry as much about Catalyst weapons over there if we contain NOD on Earth which we do have good odds of doing.

New version of my preliminary (hopefully) plan incoming soon.

 

[Voidseer]

Remember we still need to include the Study Novel Material as it is integral for our continued research into scrin tech.

 

[BoSPaladin]

Copy pasted from the discord. Two lines in the update stand out to me. Specifically regarding Marv hubs.

"The Mobile Bay fortress has been thoroughly modernized and completed. While the MARV bays are the core of the functions of the base, it is a fully featured fortress."
"a second MARV hub near Savannah. A port fortress, it is built as a fortress first,"

Just my thoughts But considering two of our Marv hubs are having significant fortifications folded into their design, it's probably an idea for us to put some dice on fortress towns, if possible

 

[Dmol8]

I'm just going to QUIT arguing about Columbia.

I'm sick of it. I'm utterly fucking sick of it.

I'm sick of people telling me to ignore things the QM wrote in recent Results updates, or that they don't really mean what they mean on a plain-language reading.

I'm sick of people telling me that the public morale impact of Columbia isn't real, as if there were just no reason for the part where both Starbound AND Development were prepared to offer us double the vote support for Columbia that they were for any other single project, including some that would be equally expensive.

Either people will read the text the QM puts right in front of them, or they won't. I give up. I'll find something else to talk about.

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I don't understand why there was an argument about Colombia for the last few pages. Like everybody agreed to disagree and picked their sides already. You and a few others still going at was just plain confusing.

Also like why did you spend yourself so hard here? This isn't the voting section of the thread where repeating one's arguments is important to drum up support for plans one likes.

@Enerael has made it clear that he wants Enterprise because of the Bays and specifically the Bay that makes everything in Orbital cheaper:

Entirely fair! This is a quest, pick whats most fun.

Myself, pragmatism aside, I am looking forward to seeing our options for Enterprise modules first at least though. We are closer to those anyway.

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and he's been rationalizing every argument for Colombia including:

Actually, Columbia is closer! Enterprise Phase 4 is 0/765 progress, while Columbia Phases 1+2+3 is in total 0/580 progress.

Sidenote: If the station discount Bay is available to the Columbia, that actually makes building Columbia's three phases first the most optimal choice. But we can't count on that; we don't yet know what Bays are avaliable to which stations.

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Oh right Columbia gets them at Phase 3. Thanks for the correction.

I doubt that the station discount module would be available for the habitation station, or the food growth one that would make little sense, so I am pretty sure that each gets their unique modules to pick from. Well, maybe some would be universal, but the station discount one shouldn't be I think.

Anyway this is something that GDI should know the answer to right now I would think so if you are interested in a concrete answer ask Ithillid.

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ignoring an argument that Colombia gets it's bays sooner. Like at this point what is the point of arguing with @Enerael over Colombia construction when all the arguments he's given basically amount to "I have a schedule for Station construction in my head and I'm not deviating from it for anything."?

And @Enerael? Do you understand the concept of a starting point being very different from an end point? I'm asking because your arguments show a lack of understanding of such a concept.

 

[Beyogi]

So um the forgotten apparently have continental level clairvoiance and we've seen surprisingly little nod infiltration.

Could Nod have produced psychics of their own that are simply sitting on a glacier and looking into our offices?

 

[bigking321]

Unless a new option shows up I don't think there is anything we can do about it.

 

[BoSPaladin]

Unless a new option shows up I don't think there is anything we can do about it.

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Not something to be seriously worried about.

Technically speaking the Forgottens range seems to be limited to 'x far' which... isn't that far. It's within a military base.

The continental stuff is more like... red zones possibly could as 0 for distance. So from one side of a red zone to another is doable.

But. Try that trick in a blue zone and they'll probably get nowhere near the range.

 

[Taliys]

[] Plan Philadelphia Sprint

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 75 R
-[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 (5 Dice, 75 R) (0% chance, 5/10.25 median)

Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice 90 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 199/300 (2 Diсe, 40 R) (92% chance)
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 146/550 (2 dice, 50 R) (0% chance, 2/5 median )

Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 70 R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 260/320 (3 Dice, 60 R) (99% chance)
-[] Civilian Glider Development 0/40 (1 Diсe, 10 R) (98% chance)

Agriculture 3/3 Dice 20 R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 3) 163/350 (2 Dice, 20 R) (20% chance)
-[] Extra Large Food Stockpiles (1 Dice, 0 R)

Tiberium 6/6 Dice 115 R
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 12) 29/130 (1 dice, 25 R) (45% chance)
-[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 2) 20/100 (1 Diсe, 10 R) (66% chance)
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 148/200 (1 Diсe, 20 R, -5 PS) (94% chance)
-[] RZ-7S MARV Fleet 0/210 (3 Dice, 60 R) (see Military)

Orbital 5/5 Dice + 7 Free Dice 240 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 474/1425 (12 dice, 240 R) (26% chance)

Services 3/4 Dice 60 R
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 42/60 (1 Diсe, 20 R) (100% chance)
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 33/60 (1 Diсe, 20 R) (100% chance)
-[] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development 66/120 (1 Diсe, 20 R) (89% chance)

Military 6/6 Dice 90 R
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 128/300 (1 Dice, 10 R) (0% chance)
-[] Havoc Scout Deployment Seoul 92/110 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] Havoc Scout Deployment Brest 77/110 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] RZ-7S MARV Fleet 0/210 (2 Dice, 40 R) (3 Tib dice. Completes; 35% chance for next fleet.)
-[] Reclamator Hub ??-??, 84/105 (1 Diсe, 20 R) (100% chance)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice
-[] Rationalize Yellow Zones (New) (3 Dice) (99% chance)

7/7 Free Dice
760/760 R

 

[Simon_Jester]

Ahah, so here are the Quarter one results, now we can finally get to logistical bandaging. Hurrah!

Have to admit, I'm still looking for that 1 free die on ICS if we're going for that otherwise I seriously doubt we'll be able to complete it in the 2 quarter timeline that negates most troubles.

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We may actually be able to spare the Free dice better next turn. It's fairly likely that an aggressive spend on the Philadelphia in Q2 will put us into a position where we only need 5-6 dice on it to finish the phase in 2059Q3... at which point shaking loose a couple of Free dice for Infrastructure gets a lot easier.

Or that's my take on things.

Except that if we fall short we have to use Mil dice to finish- and mil dice seem to be more in demand than tib dice right now. Also the extra income is going to help activate more expensive projects and that is dice not being used to finish it before Philly 2 and when we need that income. Not to mention more mitigation early helps add onto the time we can hold out to either get TCN (likely from Kane) or go to orbital evac.

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Mm. The point about extra income is particularly relevant and I'll bear it in mind. I could quibble the rest, but I see what you mean in general.

Ahah, so here are the Quarter one results, now we can finally get to logistical bandaging. Hurrah!

Have to admit, I'm still looking for that 1 free die on ICS if we're going for that otherwise I seriously doubt we'll be able to complete it in the 2 quarter timeline that negates most troubles.

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We may actually be able to spare the Free dice better next turn. It's fairly likely that an aggressive spend on the Philadelphia in Q2 will put us into a position where we only need 5-6 dice on it to finish the phase in 2059Q3... at which point shaking loose a couple of Free dice for Infrastructure gets a lot easier.

Or that's my take on things.

Except that if we fall short we have to use Mil dice to finish- and mil dice seem to be more in demand than tib dice right now. Also the extra income is going to help activate more expensive projects and that is dice not being used to finish it before Philly 2 and when we need that income. Not to mention more mitigation early helps add onto the time we can hold out to either get TCN (likely from Kane) or go to orbital evac.

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Mm. The point about extra income is particularly relevant and I'll bear it in mind. I could quibble the rest, but I see what you mean in general.

The problem with that is that it's a die with no bonus. So it might roll a 4 and only give 4 progress. The Seol factory is a special case where it's an inch away from completing.

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It might, but most of the time there'd still be a significant result. Since one isn't trying to complete the URLS phase, just to advance it a bit so that there's a reasonable hope of a single die being able to advance it... in which case rolling a 10 or a 20 isn't all bad, even if it's not what we'd have hoped.

The big argument against using a "bureaucratic assist" die is whether we have something better to do with the Bureaucracy dice.

We would need to reduce progress needed on the project to move into omake finish range (so maybe late myomer but who knows when that will be rolled out).

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At the current rate? Probably 2059Q4, maybe 2060Q1 if we're unlucky.

Just my thoughts But considering two of our Marv hubs are having significant fortifications folded into their design, it's probably an idea for us to put some dice on fortress towns, if possible

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I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong, but I'm not seeing the logical connection between "MARV hubs have fortifications" (of course they do, they're large isolated facilities built deep in the Yellow/Red Zones) and "we should build fortress towns."

 

[Simon_Jester]

@Void Stalker convinced me, so here's a version that puts four Tiberium dice on the MARV fleets.

TENTATIVE 2059Q2 BUDGET:
760 R, 7 Free dice

755/760 Resources spent
7/7 Free Dice allocated

...

[] Plan Auroras, Orbital Lasers, Liquid T, and Kudzu Tea

Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 75 R
-[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 (5 Dice, 75 R) (5/10.25 median)

Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice 95 R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 199/300 (1 Die, 20 R) (37% chance)
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 146/500 (3 Dice, 75 R) (0.4% chance, 3/5 median)

Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 70 R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 260/320 (3 Dice, 60 R) (autocomplete, ~2/9.5 median dice on Phase 4)
-[] Civilian Glider Development 0/40 (1 Die, 10 R) (98% chance)

Agriculture 2/3 Dice 30 R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 3) 163/350 (1 Die, 10 R) (1/2.5 median)
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40 (1 Die, 20R) (98% chance)

Tiberium 6/6 Dice 130 R
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Development 0/50 (1 Die, 30 R) (100% chance)
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 148/200 (1 Die, 20 R, -5 PS) (94% chance)
-[] RZ-7S MARV Fleet (Mobile Bay + Savannah) 0/210 (4 Dice, 80 R) (see Military)

Orbital 5/5 Dice + 4 Free Dice 180 R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 474/1425 (9 dice, 180 R) (9/13 median)

Services 2/4 Dice 40 R
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 42/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 33/60 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)

Military 6/6 Dice + 3 Free Dice 110 R
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 128/300 (3 Dice, 30 R) (84% chance)
-[] Orbital Defense Laser Development 0/40 (1 Die, 20R) (100% chance)
-[] Aurora Strike Bomber Development 0/40 (1 Die, 15R) (100% chance)
-[] Havoc Scout Deployment (Brest) 77/110 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[] RZ-7S MARV Fleet (Mobile Bay + Savannah) 0/210 (2 Dice, 40 R) (4 Tib dice. Completes; 78% chance for next fleet.)
-[] Reclamator Hub YZ-?? (Savannah), 84/105 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)

Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice
-[] Rationalize Yellow Zones (New) (99% chance of hitting DC 90)

 

[marsolino]

Hooray my map was added!

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It is a very good map, thanks

 

[sunrise]

Remember we still need to include the Study Novel Material as it is integral for our continued research into scrin tech.

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It might complete when we do this project in SCED quest. so let's do Philadelphia in the next two turns and we can do the High Security Materials Laboratory Module in SCED quest during those turns.

[-]High Security Materials Laboratory Module (Requires Gagarin-Stage 3)
For security's sake, the Martian transuranic samples will need to be analysed and researched in a laboratory isolated from Earth. Such a high security laboratory module is already an expensive construction operation on Earth and will be even more expensive in space, both in terms of items and hardware launched and in the projected cost.
(0/5 HS-Station Parts; 10 E-Launch Cap, 20C and 20 E-IP per Part)(+1 Research Die)(-4 Astrotech Teams)

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I doubt that the station discount module would be available for the habitation station, or the food growth one that would make little sense, so I am pretty sure that each gets their unique modules to pick from. Well, maybe some would be universal, but the station discount one shouldn't be I think.

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I don't have the quote any more as it was months ago but each station has its own bays based on the main purpose of the station.

 

[Hazard]

I'm not sure that will actually help much unless the throughput is massive. The turnaround time on our fusion shuttles is enough that orbiting several tons per day is a "just build more shuttles" problem. Orbiting several tens or hundreds of tons per day is a "just build more shuttles" problem, as far as I can tell.

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During the mad dash for the Tiberium Stabilizer Network GDI was launching 20+ shuttles per day, with a turn around time per shuttle of at least 60 days, and a payload capacity per shuttle of 180-200 tons, depending on model. GDI currently has a launch capacity over 4 000 tons per day, and it's probably growing.

Also, yes, GDI has apparently over 1200 fusion drive shuttles available, and we don't even use most of them regularly. Supplying our orbital assets probably doesn't even take 50 shuttles, total, because 200 tons to LEO is a lot of stuff to haul up.

I can't decide if this is a virtuous cycle or a chicken-and-egg paradox.

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Virtuous cycle, it'll just grow and reinforce itself, you know?

Huh. That sounds like a Talons project might help?

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No, we already have neural interfaces; they are part of the Firehawk's control scheme, with an EVA riding along as copilot/weapons officer for the pilot in the seat. Of course, getting a couple of those pilots or getting the scientists that already have such neural interfaces into the AI development teams might not be easy. It might even be easier to just offer the probably rather invasive and difficult operations to interested members of the teams, but that's a 'not Seo's problem' thing. The project leads can deal with that.

It's unfortunate that the BLUE ZONE Heavy Industry centers probably are going to be stonewalled by popular sentiment or at least have PS cost going forward given the Blurb.

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We just rolled badly, so it's not really a problem, just something where GDI's bureaucracy has to go through all the nonsense with the NIMBY's.

I mean, these are the hypocrites who are perfectly fine with all that being build in somebody else's backyard, so long as it's not theirs.

Do we even have time? Its a development and Deployment after all.

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Probably, yes, but we'd need to start immediately and try to finish it up fairly swiftly.

 

[Vocalend]

So um the forgotten apparently have continental level clairvoiance and we've seen surprisingly little nod infiltration.

Could Nod have produced psychics of their own that are simply sitting on a glacier and looking into our offices?

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It should be noted that the Delta are new occurrences, at the very least, they've only just started to appear and able to manifest their powers. And yes, technically speaking the Brotherhood likely knows better than we do about them. However, the Forgotten themselves aren't... enthused at having 'one of theirs' be taken away, be it by eagle's talons or scorpion's tails. The only reason, really, that Zaragoza went forth is because the GDI has done right by the Forgotten the past near decade or so with no signs of stopping or cutting away any good faith deals.

Even then, they are not willing/able to confirm the existence of other rumoured abilities– which if we go by some of the canons, involved doing the full 40K psyker route and call down an Ion Storm.

It's a new and exciting field, putting it simply. The lores are far and few in between and it's likely that no one has been able to harness the Delta power... yet.

 

[Ace of Scarabs]

Even then, they are not willing/able to confirm the existence of other rumoured abilities– which if we go by some of the canons, involved doing the full 40K psyker route and call down an Ion Storm.

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That kind of reveal takes more time and trust, I guess. How long until our next revision of our friendly treaties with the Forgotten?

 

[BoSPaladin]

I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong, but I'm not seeing the logical connection between "MARV hubs have fortifications" (of course they do, they're large isolated facilities built deep in the Yellow/Red Zones) and "we should build fortress towns."

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"Isolated facilities built deep in the Yellow/Red Zones"

That's exactly my point. Building Fortress town to shorten any supply lines and create defences so our forward operating bases aren't so isolated.

I think the fact that they're being built as fortresses, sure it defends the hubs themselves as they're valuable but at their core, the marv hubs act as a base to conduct abatement from and hold ground. Which is a similar role to fortress towns minus the super tanks. But the fact construction facilities are being built as defensive installations, may mean we actually need dedicated forts rather than stopgap measures.