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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Apollo Fighter Markup
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    • Ithillid said:
    [X] Apollo Fighter Factories
    While the Apollo was developed before the Third Tiberium War, and was in testing at Valparaiso Spaceport, much of the initial run was destroyed in a Black Hand raid that also seized Dr. Alphonse Giraud, the project lead of Apollo. The remaining units were, for the most part, destroyed over the course of the Third Tiberium War. Resume construction of Apollo Factories.
    -[X] Reykjavik (Progress 72/70: 15 resources per die) (-- Labor, --- Energy)
    In three months, a field outside Reykjavik has gone from being an empty plot to being a fully equipped fighter factory. The Apollo carries a mix of missiles and autocannons, its most lethal tool is its speed. At this time, it is the fastest thing in the air.
    While the factory has currently only entered low rate initial production, and no production units have yet reached front line service, they are expected to reach Initial Operational Capability by the midpoint of next year, and be fully capable of defending Blue Zone Airpsace by the end of next year.
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    This could stand a bit of a glow-up, couldn't it...

    Apollo Fighter Factories

    Plans for the development of the new district on reclaimed lava fields in Reykjavik have been floated at several points, most recently as an expansion for the city's Mammoth tank factory. However, a competing plan to bring the Apollo fighter into production from the war has been pulled out, now that funding for tooling has finally been made available. A series of pre-fabricated structural modules have been thrown up into a steel and cement warehouse of sorts, and with the installation of weatherproofing, heating and utility services, the new factory has taken shape, a sinuous path of assembly laid out inside a single main production hall with sub-assembly wings jutting out to the sides. An additional set of defensive measures, including AA turrets, SAM missile batteries, and a coastal artillery battery and torpedo launcher concealed on the nearest segment of coast, protect the factory from any future NOD attack.

    The Apollo has an impressive profile-the fighter is capable of high Supersonic Mach 4 flight, with a supercruise of Mach 2.7, though it's speed is limited if external weapons pylons are used. The Apollo has two autocannons that can be fired linked or independently, an internal weapons bay that can hold five missiles, up to six additional missiles on external hardpoints, and an active-protection system that can let it shoot down NOD SAMs or Man-portable AA missiles. It also carries the finest radar, Lidar, and an ECM unit to detect NOD bombers and sneak up on them undetected until it's too late for them to call for help. With no air-superiority fighter in NOD's arsenal, the Apollo may well rule the air unchallenged in any serious way.

    Testing of the new production Apollo units has been extensive, with the first five units of serial test production already earmarked for flight testing, as the revised design contains many simplifications and alterations not part of Dr. Giraud's prototypes. However, because of this testing schedule, full-scale production is being held back somewhat, and while the first units will be available in blue zones sometime next year, they are expected to not be enough to secure air superiority in the Yellow Zones, a task much more formidable and requiring more production.
     
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    • Chaeronea said:
    @Ithillid What effect does improving our Capital Goods score have? Does it increase our production in other sectors, or reduce the number of points required to complete factories and other projects?
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    It is going to mainly go towards speeding rollout, but will also reduce factory completion points, and a few other things. Basically it hurts everything, and fixing it will give at least some benefit everywhere. The biggest benefit though is that you start getting a lot of bigger, more impactful projects.
     
    So many problems at once!

    We have a bunch of potential of security problems.
    The military department is riddled with Nod tampering which the sweep has only partly been mitigated. The department needs a total replacement of the computer chips and then another review afterwards to truly fix this problem.
    Services. Resentment in the refugee camps grows and the incomplete schools are facing attacks. We need to perform a security review of services and strengthen the military unless we want to have headlines of hundreds of schoolchildren being kidnapped by the Brotherhood of Nod.
    It seems heavy industry will be our focus for the next couple turns and we need a security review to prevent Nod from sabotaging our efforts here.
    Tiberium. The Nod defectors are both a great boon and a great security risk. We will need another security review when we start doing more sensitive tiberium research.
     
    BoredStudent1414 said:
    So many problems at once!

    We have a bunch of potential of security problems.
    The military department is riddled with Nod tampering which the sweep has only partly been mitigated. The department needs a total replacement of the computer chips and then another review afterwards to truly fix this problem.
    Services. Resentment in the refugee camps grows and the incomplete schools are facing attacks. We need to perform a security review of services and strengthen the military unless we want to have headlines of hundreds of schoolchildren being kidnapped by the Brotherhood of Nod.
    It seems heavy industry will be our focus for the next couple turns and we need a security review to prevent Nod from sabotaging our efforts here.
    Tiberium. The Nod defectors are both a great boon and a great security risk. We will need another security review when we start doing more sensitive tiberium research.
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    On the upside, at least:
    -We are no longer starving to death, even if the Yellow Zones don't have a good enough Logistics network yet to get it efficiently
    -The healthcare system is pretty robust
    -There's at least something of a check on Tiberium Growth, even if it's nowhere near good enough yet
    -Everybody has at least a tent, and a lot of people have actual Commieblock Apartments
    -Everybody has power
    -In general things are getting shipped to places on time

    But yeah, everything is still a dumpster fire, it's just that GDI is notably less of a dumpster fire. Doesn't change the fact that we're standing in a heap of flaming trash though.
     
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    Ithillid said:
    It is going to mainly go towards speeding rollout, but will also reduce factory completion points, and a few other things. Basically it hurts everything, and fixing it will give at least some benefit everywhere. The biggest benefit though is that you start getting a lot of bigger, more impactful projects.
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    Hmm so the completion point reduction is good, the bigger projects are ahh... we have too much to do already with our limited resource pool and dice!
    Edit- how much of our chip problems are solved with the manchester plant?
     
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    I'm thinking that with Q1 if we put all our free dice into Heavy Industry that will give us 8 dice - 1 allocated to Manchester should let us complete that pretty easily, 6 dice allocated to Christchurch should give us fairly good odds of completion, especially if our dice bonus goes up to +6 at the start of Q1, leaving 1 dice for the Security Review into the HI sector. 6 dice into the Christchurch project gives us a +36 bonus so we'd need a total of 264 from 6 dice, which would give us a 56% chance of success. Add in the + for Capital Goods from the Manchester factory, and the bonus from succeeding at the Christchurch option should reduce the point total required by the Boston factory, and hopefully for the other military factories we are looking to set up.
     
    So with all the discussion I am looking at something like
    Infra 1/6 10 R +6
    -[] Monument Restoration Program 75/100 1 dice 10 R
    HI 3/3 +5 Free 105 R +6
    -[] Manchester Chip Foundry 122/150 2 dice 30 R
    -[] Boston or Christchurch 5 dice 75 R
    LC Ind 0/3 0 R +6
    Agri 0/3 0 R +6
    Tiberium 4/6 90 R +26
    -[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Stage 1) 369/400 1 dice 15 R
    -[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 2) 2/150 3 dice 75 R
    Orb 0/3 0 R +4
    Services 0/3 0 R +21
    Military 3/3 50 R +1
    -[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 1) 5/50 1 dice 20 R
    -[] Zone Suit Factories (Christchurch) 0/75 2 dice 30 R
    Bureau 3/3 0 R +6
    -[] Security Review (HI) 3 dice 60 DC
    Free 5/5

    255/310

    55 R left over with 2 dice in tiberium and 5 in infra the most likely to draw attention. For infra- Yellow Zone Housing would be big (as a good chunk of our housing is refugee which degrades so this way we get more people into normal housing). Tiberium would be Experimental Tiberium Treatment Labs at 20 R per dice as the only option that does not further draw on the military. If something like 5 resources leftover throw that into 1 dice on Schools.

    Monument Resto is to try and finish it off but not worth more than 1 dice a turn until it does due to demands elsewhere.
    Manchster Chip- 2 dice to make sure it finishes and has been mentioned in the thread if we roll over it gets production going sooner in the quarter and we really need new chips badly for the military.
    Boston or Christchurch for the rest of our dice (except 1 for security review) which really depends on how much the manchester plant makes a difference because we need a better military and soon to allow us to continue to expand tiberium operations to up our mitigation (at 29 and 19 average rolls of 50 make us lose a good chunk of ground) because otherwise everything we do will be swallowed up by tiberium. Not to mention NOD attacking and making things worse. They cost the same per dice so easy to budget in.
    Perimeter Fencing to finish off a bit of mitigation
    Red Zone harvesting mitigation and badly needed income plus unlocking the next glacier phase. Note that currently we have to leave about 4 dice idle between Infra, HI, Tib, Mil and Free while not doing anything in LC, Agri, Orb and Services- Red Zone Harvesting and Glacier Mining adds 50 to 80 once we do both and at a min gets 3 or 4 (depends on project costs) of the those idle active at max we have enough to actually do stuff in other categories to deal with the the fires that are not as big as those in the Infra, HI, Tib and Mil areas.
    ASAT defenses- we only have 3 mil dice this turn with the free dice needed in HI so trying to get defenses up and running with 1 dice because the other 2
    Zone Suit factories- we have one factory up, we need more to keep the military supplied for further tiberium expansions and Christchurch is far away from the current to make it easier to supply other locations and protection for when we do the future cap goods plant. 2 dice to give this a good shot at finishing this turn.
    Finally Security review because we have not done HI yet and we cannot afford to let NOD misdirect our efforts in this area
     
    Void Stalker said:
    Bureau 3/3 0 R +6
    -[] Security Review (HI) 3 dice 60 DC
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    I've been thinking that we could to two Security Reviews in the same turn. Something like:

    Bureau 3/3 0 R +6
    -[] Security Review (HI) 2 dice 89.2%
    -[] Security Review (LC Ind) 1 die + 2 LC Ind dice 98.9%

    Since we've got so many idle dice lying around, and 2 dice gives us such a high chance of success already. Of course, where we really want to do a security sweep is Services, but I'm not sure we can afford 2 or 3 dice from there next turn when we really need to do Primary Schooling already.
     
    Derpmind said:
    I've been thinking that we could to two Security Reviews in the same turn. Something like:

    Bureau 3/3 0 R +6
    -[] Security Review (HI) 2 dice 89.2%
    -[] Security Review (LC Ind) 1 die + 2 LC Ind dice 98.9%

    Since we've got so many idle dice lying around, and 2 dice gives us such a high chance of success already. Of course, where we really want to do a security sweep is Services, but I'm not sure we can afford 2 or 3 dice from there next turn when we really need to do Primary Schooling already.
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    Only bureau dice roll towards the DC it just taxes the department we review one dice which is not rolled. So we cannot use dice from other departments to increase our chances. Also we wont be able to run services at full next turn with our other demands (unless we turn free dice into bureau dice for the next turn)
     
    Void Stalker said:
    BIG POST
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    I agree with most of this.

    I don't care whether Boston or Christchurch gets the 5 Dice as long as one of them is picked.

    Experimental Tib Labs I am good with, although it's going to create additional draw for our Security Sweep Dice.

    Is Christchurch even somewhere where you can build Zone Suits?

    Schools getting only 1 die kinda sucks but oh well, we don't have the money.

    We may have to redirect dice from Yellow Zone Infrastructure into Blue Zone or maybe Yellow Zone Aquaponics. Depends on how badly the current level of Yellow Zone Reconstruction impacts our current food supply. If our Food Supply is = or lower I am going to be advocating for Aquaponics over Infra.
     
    Sailor_Skarro said:
    I agree with most of this.

    I don't care whether Boston or Christchurch gets the 5 Dice as long as one of them is picked.

    Experimental Tib Labs I am good with, although it's going to create additional draw for our Security Sweep Dice.

    Is Christchurch even somewhere where you can build Zone Suits?

    Schools getting only 1 die kinda sucks but oh well, we don't have the money.

    We may have to redirect dice from Yellow Zone Infrastructure into Blue Zone or maybe Yellow Zone Aquaponics. Depends on how badly the current level of Yellow Zone Reconstruction impacts our current food supply. If our Food Supply is = or lower I am going to be advocating for Aquaponics over Infra.
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    Yeah Boston v Christchurch is one I think we need more info on. And yes looked at the zone suits option last turn and Christchurch was one of them so that just fit. The part about schools is basically if we have 5 resources leftover throw a dice at it to chip away some more. Food supply is ++ it is in the results. Housing is = but +++++ is in refugee camps that 1) degrades over time and 2) are not pleasant so yellow zone housing is a good way to reduce NOD recruitment power and we need to cut away at NOD on all fronts win the hearts and minds not just try to bullet harder, McNeil pointed that out perfectly.
     
    Void Stalker said:
    Yeah Boston v Christchurch is one I think we need more info on. And yes looked at the zone suits option last turn and Christchurch was one of them so that just fit. The part about schools is basically if we have 5 resources leftover throw a dice at it to chip away some more. Food supply is ++ it is in the results. Housing is = but +++++ is in refugee camps that 1) degrades over time and 2) are not pleasant so yellow zone housing is a good way to reduce NOD recruitment power and we need to cut away at NOD on all fronts win the hearts and minds not just try to bullet harder, McNeil pointed that out perfectly.
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    Depends, do you want to sink 450 Progress into starting to replace our compromised chips, or 300 into solving 1/4th of our Capital Goods crisis and unlocking more Capital Goods projects to do and all the knock-on effects of having Less Terrible Capital Goods?

    Huh. So it is. Neat.

    Yeah, still little bit sad that we can't squeeze out an extra 10 Resources. Education (and PS) are important. :(

    I know, Housing is important and Yellow Zone Welfare is important because a) human decency and b) NOD sucks and being decent people hurts them, Ithillid just mentioned something about Yellow Zones increasing Food draw in the Discord so I'm a bit worried something is going to pop up next turn and am detailing the circumstances under which I'd pull dice from Infrastructure for Agriculture. Namely, if Food drops to = or lower, can't have people starving to death. Starvation is probably worse than living in a shitty tent in terms of Handing NOD Propaganda Wins.

    Of course, if Food doesn't drop to = or lower next turn, forget I said anything, full steam ahead on Yellow Zone Infrastructure.
     
    The dilemma between Boston vs. Christchurch is one of future risk vs immediate reward.
    Replacing compromised chips protects us from a future problem, while more capital goods help with lots of current problems.

    Honestly, with amount of fires we have, Christchurch just sounds better. Also, all those tools could (indirectly but still) help with making the chip factory.
     
    PurposefulZephyr said:
    The dilemma between Boston vs. Christchurch is one of future risk vs immediate reward.
    Replacing compromised chips protects us from a future problem, while more capital goods help with lots of current problems.

    Honestly, with amount of fires we have, Christchurch just sounds better. Also, all those tools could (indirectly but still) help with making the chip factory.
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    Not quite, Boston also lets us spin up the military faster as they get more good chips to use in high end equipment which in turn lets us push further into tiberium recovery while still being able to fend off NOD. As is right now it is either Boston Phase 1 and 2 then Christchurch or flip the order but they are pretty much 1/2 in that category. Phase 3 and future cap good projects are behind both of them.
     
    I don't think we can realistically put off schooling for more than one or two more turns as a priority. It might not be flashy or have an effect on our tracked resources, but it is absolutely 100% bolstering NOD.
     
    I prefer replacing the compromised chips sooner rather then later. We don't want Nod to potentially able to hack into our ion cannons and use them to blow GDI bases or major landmarks like in the Nod ending of Tiberium Dawn.

    Darkandus said:
    I don't think we can realistically put off schooling for more than one or two more turns as a priority. It might not be flashy or have an effect on our tracked resources, but it is absolutely 100% bolstering NOD.
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    At the same time, we also need to be able to provide more security first for the Yellow Zone schools which are favorite targets for Nod sympathizers currently.
     
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    Darkandus said:
    I don't think we can realistically put off schooling for more than one or two more turns as a priority. It might not be flashy or have an effect on our tracked resources, but it is absolutely 100% bolstering NOD.
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    BoredStudent1414 said:
    At the same time, we also need to be able to provide more security first for the Yellow Zone schools which are favorite targets for Nod sympathizers currently.
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    I wouldn't mind pulling one die off of Infrastructure to add another two Dice to Schooling, but we will need to run a Security Sweep on Services sooner rather than later. Sure, HI is taking priority this turn, but we should probably do it next turn at the latest.
     
    The electronics Nod infiltrated are like the desktops the office drones use in the administrative and procurement bureaucracy, I don't read it as they somehow retroactively got perfectly effective back doors into ion cannons that have been in orbit for however many years (certainly since before the quest began since we sure haven't built any). If they had that kind of access and could suddenly steal ion cannons or turn off Mammoths or whatever you'd think it would have come up in the giant world war we just finished fighting.

    I'm coming around to focusing on Christchurch over Boston tbh, a major chip shortage is obviously bad and seriously constraining the economy but having to fall back to late 20th century methods with primitive electronics is better than having to fall back to pre-industrial methods when we can't even keep up with demand for super basic physical tooling like drill bits.
     
    Can someone run the numbers to see what chance of success the Christchurch option would have by using 5 dice like in Void Stalker's plan?
     
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