I think most of are guys will then consider the council as a extremely out of touch government and act hostile to them if they do that.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Nate700
The Great Lurker
- Location
- USA
God save us if we get a Nat 100.
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- Location
- USA
Early thoughts:
Infra 5/5 50R +15
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2) 278/450 5 dice 50 R 99%
HI 5/5 55R +20
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 3) 71/350 2 dice 10 R 0%
-[] Kure Machine Works 78/280 3 dice 45 R 68% (High Priority)
LCI 4/4 50R +15
-[] Chemical Precursor Plants 115/200 2 dice 30 R 93%
-[] Furniture Factories 0/150 2 dice 20 R 47%
Agri 3/3 40R +15
-[] Expansive Aquaponics Campaigns 0/600 2 dice 20 R 0%
-[] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 dice 20 R 91%
Tiberium 5/5 70R +35
-[] Chicago (Phase 3) 107/320 2 dice 40 R 27%
-[] Mecca (Phase 1) 0/80 1 dice 20 R 71%
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Phase) 2/200 2 dice 10 R 42%
Orbital 1/3 10R +15 (5 Fusion dice)
-[] Enteprise (Phase 3) ???/390 ? dice 20 R per dice (fusion, nat 100 has this up in the air, was 168/390 before nat 100 so going to full completion seems a bit much for a nat 100)
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) 43/90 1 dice 10 R 84%
-[] Asteroid Probe followup ??/??? ? dice ?? R per dice
Services 1/4 5R +30
-[] Fashion Development Houses 91/225 ? dice 10 R per dice
-[] Game Development Studios 236/300 1 dice 5 82%
-[] Vaccine Development Programs 61/150 ? dice 25 R per dice
Military 5/5 +5 dice 175R +15
-[] Stealth Disruptor System Development 0/40 1 dice 25 R 91%
-[] Reclamator Fleet YZ-5a (Super MARV) 174/210 1 dice 20 R 95%
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7N (Super MARV) 0/210 2 dice 40 R 7%
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 2 dice 20 R 0% (High Priority)
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Hampton Roads) 3 dice 60 R 59% (Very High Priority)
-[] Titan Mark 3 Deployment 0/175 1 dice 10 R 0%
Bureau 3/3 +15
-???
Free 5/6
5 mil
455/545
PS 55
90 R left for 6 dice (which is why cheap projects like YZ power and all dice into tidal as the cheapest infra project)
YZ power, furniture factory and 2 of the tidal dice will be upgraded if resources allow, but I went for cheap projects to make sure I had enough left over for the 6 dice that have not been assigned yet. Similiar reasoning behind 2 dice on tib prospecting since at 5 R per dice it is cheap but still helps us by gaining more income.
If resources allow it 1 or 2 tidal dice can be swapped to phase 3 chicago to make it more likely to finish next turn and get us some badly needed mitigation.
Income wise we are looking at +15 as well as a one off of 25-30 R from orbital cleanup which makes Q3 a lot easier to manage and Q3 with the above we should rollout the RZ-7N Super MARV which is +25 in red zones for income.
Military- 3 dice on MARVs, 7 dice on other projects with 3 on working on a 2nd governor shipyard, 1 dice on countering nod stealth (which makes them easier for our artillery, fighters and ion cannons to hit NOD bases and makes it harder for them to carry out raids), 2 dice to chip away at shell plants and 1 dice for steel talons (really just keep on rolling 1 dice in the steel talons cat to keep a slow but steady progress going while still letting us do other needed mil tasks)
Really need to see the exact effects of the nat 100 and nat 1 to nail down orbital, plus seeing what Bureau looks like next turn
Infra 5/5 50R +15
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2) 278/450 5 dice 50 R 99%
HI 5/5 55R +20
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 3) 71/350 2 dice 10 R 0%
-[] Kure Machine Works 78/280 3 dice 45 R 68% (High Priority)
LCI 4/4 50R +15
-[] Chemical Precursor Plants 115/200 2 dice 30 R 93%
-[] Furniture Factories 0/150 2 dice 20 R 47%
Agri 3/3 40R +15
-[] Expansive Aquaponics Campaigns 0/600 2 dice 20 R 0%
-[] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 dice 20 R 91%
Tiberium 5/5 70R +35
-[] Chicago (Phase 3) 107/320 2 dice 40 R 27%
-[] Mecca (Phase 1) 0/80 1 dice 20 R 71%
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Phase) 2/200 2 dice 10 R 42%
Orbital 1/3 10R +15 (5 Fusion dice)
-[] Enteprise (Phase 3) ???/390 ? dice 20 R per dice (fusion, nat 100 has this up in the air, was 168/390 before nat 100 so going to full completion seems a bit much for a nat 100)
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) 43/90 1 dice 10 R 84%
-[] Asteroid Probe followup ??/??? ? dice ?? R per dice
Services 1/4 5R +30
-[] Fashion Development Houses 91/225 ? dice 10 R per dice
-[] Game Development Studios 236/300 1 dice 5 82%
-[] Vaccine Development Programs 61/150 ? dice 25 R per dice
Military 5/5 +5 dice 175R +15
-[] Stealth Disruptor System Development 0/40 1 dice 25 R 91%
-[] Reclamator Fleet YZ-5a (Super MARV) 174/210 1 dice 20 R 95%
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7N (Super MARV) 0/210 2 dice 40 R 7%
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 2 dice 20 R 0% (High Priority)
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Hampton Roads) 3 dice 60 R 59% (Very High Priority)
-[] Titan Mark 3 Deployment 0/175 1 dice 10 R 0%
Bureau 3/3 +15
-???
Free 5/6
5 mil
455/545
PS 55
90 R left for 6 dice (which is why cheap projects like YZ power and all dice into tidal as the cheapest infra project)
YZ power, furniture factory and 2 of the tidal dice will be upgraded if resources allow, but I went for cheap projects to make sure I had enough left over for the 6 dice that have not been assigned yet. Similiar reasoning behind 2 dice on tib prospecting since at 5 R per dice it is cheap but still helps us by gaining more income.
If resources allow it 1 or 2 tidal dice can be swapped to phase 3 chicago to make it more likely to finish next turn and get us some badly needed mitigation.
Income wise we are looking at +15 as well as a one off of 25-30 R from orbital cleanup which makes Q3 a lot easier to manage and Q3 with the above we should rollout the RZ-7N Super MARV which is +25 in red zones for income.
Military- 3 dice on MARVs, 7 dice on other projects with 3 on working on a 2nd governor shipyard, 1 dice on countering nod stealth (which makes them easier for our artillery, fighters and ion cannons to hit NOD bases and makes it harder for them to carry out raids), 2 dice to chip away at shell plants and 1 dice for steel talons (really just keep on rolling 1 dice in the steel talons cat to keep a slow but steady progress going while still letting us do other needed mil tasks)
Really need to see the exact effects of the nat 100 and nat 1 to nail down orbital, plus seeing what Bureau looks like next turn
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- Location
- The Underdark
Star Wars is one of the options where there is both not a good way to slip Tiberium Earth in, and is generally too high powered. It would end up being Star Wars with a few GDI visual nods more or less.
Agree.
Star Wars is one of very few settings where pretty much the whole galaxy is genuinely explored and settled, with policies operating with expected level of power and numbers.
Edit:
The Yuuzhan Vong, the one war truly dangerous for the setting, was a full blown intergalactic invasion with thousands of worlds burning and hundreds of worlds and whole star systems literally destroyed.
Destroying a star was not something Reapers were ever shown doing, a number of policies can do it pretty easily in Star Wars.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Larry Niven's Known Space?
- Location
- The Underdark
Not nearly familiar enough with it to say.
Maybe they'll learn once NOD takes root in their own systems? After all, there are a lot of disaffected poors and youngs in the Citadel space.
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
So got to ask how far into this plan are we? Like are we half way through or just short of that? Because I feel like we're getting our plan commitments done really fast this time around.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I wouldn't recommend the books for characterization, but the future history and the construction of the short stories as, essentially, old school detective/exploration stories but sci-fi was something I found enjoyable at a young age.
No idea how it's aged. It's been a while since I last read a Niven book.
- Location
- USA
We are in the 3rd of 4 years so 7 turns left after this, we also have a lot of cap goods to do for plan goals which take longer than cons good to get out
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
Huh I thought we we're only half way through this still I think we're on tract to finish all the plan goals.
- Location
- USA
We just passed halfway, plans are 16 turns and we just did turn 9 of 16. And yeah Cap goods is likely to be the last we hit, that or food.
The just rolled turn is the first turn in the third year, if I am not mistaken.
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
Ok so we actually did just past the half way point alright good to know I am in fact counting correctly.
- Location
- barking
well for being the first not united species I disagree with cause I think the turians will understand since if I recall they had to fight their war so they might see it as that and the krogan are hardly united.
Any descendants of a yellow zoner will relate to the krogans and what to help us to help them I imagine?
Well, on top of the nat 100 we rolled for Enterprise, we also rolled more than twice the amount needed to succeed for Hewlett-Gardener Method Development and the Rapid Fire Laser Weapons Development projects, so hopefully they will get some nice bonuses.
@Ithillid From your description the Governor class warship sounds more like a destroyer than a cruiser (the ASW role is almost always a destroyer role, although cruisers and destroyers tended to blend together from the 1970's onward), and the requested production numbers seem to tie in to that - the US Navy has built 141 destroyers since World War 2. However I read somewhere in the thread that the Governor weighed in at about 17 000 tons displacement which is massive by destroyer and cruiser standard - the Ticonderoga class cruisers deployed by the US Navy came in just under 10 000 tons while the Slava class cruisers used by the Soviet Navy displaced between 10 000 to 12 000 tons depending on their loadout. Heck, a Harpers Ferry class Landing Ship Dock (like the one in the very first C&C mission which deployed the hovercraft to land your troops), which carries a short battalion of Marines, weighs in at 16 000 tons. So why is the Governor so massive in comparison?
@Ithillid From your description the Governor class warship sounds more like a destroyer than a cruiser (the ASW role is almost always a destroyer role, although cruisers and destroyers tended to blend together from the 1970's onward), and the requested production numbers seem to tie in to that - the US Navy has built 141 destroyers since World War 2. However I read somewhere in the thread that the Governor weighed in at about 17 000 tons displacement which is massive by destroyer and cruiser standard - the Ticonderoga class cruisers deployed by the US Navy came in just under 10 000 tons while the Slava class cruisers used by the Soviet Navy displaced between 10 000 to 12 000 tons depending on their loadout. Heck, a Harpers Ferry class Landing Ship Dock (like the one in the very first C&C mission which deployed the hovercraft to land your troops), which carries a short battalion of Marines, weighs in at 16 000 tons. So why is the Governor so massive in comparison?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I would say that GDI in Babylon 5 works MUCH better from an aesthetic thematic, and lore standpoint that GDI in Mass Effect.
B5 has plasma weapons, crystalline technology, and it's tech tree is generally closer in feel to C&C.
B5 humanity is also culturally closer to GDI which cuts down on the amount of worldbuilding necessary to mesh the settings.
Given that a sequel is years away, I would counsell @Ithillid to give it a second look. It's help up surprisingly well and there are fan curated episode lists that will get you up to date on the series relatively quick.
Beyond that, if source material is a problem, might I suggest taking a co-GM or a consultant that is more familiar with the setting? They'd be able to quickly point you at where to find material.
B5 has plasma weapons, crystalline technology, and it's tech tree is generally closer in feel to C&C.
B5 humanity is also culturally closer to GDI which cuts down on the amount of worldbuilding necessary to mesh the settings.
Given that a sequel is years away, I would counsell @Ithillid to give it a second look. It's help up surprisingly well and there are fan curated episode lists that will get you up to date on the series relatively quick.
Beyond that, if source material is a problem, might I suggest taking a co-GM or a consultant that is more familiar with the setting? They'd be able to quickly point you at where to find material.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
To be fair, you could probably relocate the action of Starcraft to Earth without changing the plot unrecognizably. Especially in a crossover where the specific actual-factual 'United Earth Directorate' and 'Terran Confederacy' simply don't exist.
The Zerg wouldn't care about whether they were approaching the Koprulu Sector or whatever sector Earth's in. Nor would the Protoss.
[Looks at asteroid trajectory]
"And yet, here we are."
"Guess that'll teach us to incorporate bleeding-edge Scrin derived reactionless drive prototypes in our probes "to see what happens."
The problem is that the MARV construction is damned expensive. Like, we only spend 2-3 dice on it every turn so the opportunity costs are kind of invisible, but it's expensive.
We're being directly told "look, if you want to actually expand the military out into extra land besides just asking us to secure MARV hubs, we need 7 dice/turn, minimum. Preferably more. If all you really want is to secure MARV hubs and maybe a couple of specific sites, we need 4 dice/turn and build all the MARVs you want."
The thing is, we DO want to expand out into more land. It's a fundamental goal- build up our military enough that we can resume Yellow Zone expansion, actually reclaim some Yellow Zone territory as Blue Zones, and push. We don't want to just hunker down in the Blue Zones except for a handful of isolated forward bases.
Which means we're committing to 7+ Military dice per turn on average. And doing that plus a significant (2 or more/turn) MARV investment is just unsustainable. We can't spend the rest of the quest sinking practically every Free die we ever have into the military.
I think that after we finish the Chicago fleet and meet our five-fleet commitment, we should dial back to a 1/turn trickle to finish off the second Red Zone hub in North America and then just stop. Have a moratorium so we can actually throw our resources and dice around freely for a few turns, maybe stretch our legs a bit and use Free dice to speed up North Boston. Things like that.
MARVs aren't the only way for us to get mitigation or RpT, and pursuing them obsessively may actually cost us opportunities for mitigation in the long run by limiting the military's confidence.
Yeah, but I think our military advisors are right and serious when they tell us we need to make up our mind. Either we need to make them the backbone and centerpiece of our entire Yellow/Red Zone presence to the point where the conventional military is practically their backup dancers (4/turn on everything else, ???/turn on MARVs)... Or we need to scale back MARV construction as an expense per turn and actually let the military get the 7-10/turn they're asking for, consistently, without need to scrape up literally every Free die we have to make that happen every single turn.
Possibly, but the Council has the reasonably objection that if we protest that Nod isn't our responsibility to chase down, then they can point out with some asperity, "who else's responsibility could they POSSIBLY be?"
The turians are probably perfectly willing to unleash the wall of guns on Nod if Nod makes trouble, but they'll be very put out with us and understandably so if we're not doing our part.
Every other species in the setting, besides the krogans, "owns" its own renegade members. The salarians put down the League of One like so many rabid dogs, the turians fought wars with their own splinter colonies, and the batarians are pariahs in large part because batarians keep turning up as slavers and pirates.
There is effectively no concept within Citadel civilization in Mass Effect of a species that isn't a self-governing monadic whole. While there are plenty of institutions with pan-species or cross-species participation, the entire system of government and treaty infrastructure of the setting are predicated on this assumption. If you have a problem with a bunch of elcor, you go to the Citadel and complain to the elcor representative. If you want something from an organization predominantly full of volus, you go to the Citadel and talk to a volus representative. If you want a problem shot, you go to the Citadel and ask the turian representative.
Which means that the expectation for all galactic races is going to be that if you have a problem with Kane, who certainly appears to be a human, you go to the Citadel, or the human homeworld, and complain to the rulers of humankind. Who will, even if they can't snap their fingers and solve the problem, at least make a good faith effort.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
This plan is an excellent illustration of what I'm talking about regarding the costs of overinvestment in MARVs. By dumping 60 Resources into MARV fleets- and to be clear I know MARV fleets aren't worthless but they're worth a finite amount- we force ourselves into very suboptimal spending elsewhere.
Furniture Factories is a terrible light industry project when we have things like macrospinners and superconductor fabricators on the menu, because dear God do we need the Capital Goods and other benefits.
Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension is a profoundly inefficient way to increase our energy supply when we're trying to get North Boston up and running as a major plan priority.
I won't judge the merits of Expansive Aquaponics save to note that actually finishing it within the current Four Year Plan is going to be a bear.
But running a single die on the Titan Mk III deployment is almost worse than running none at all, because each time we do a mech deployment it slams the production line to a screeching halt and we're under pressure to hurry up and finish that turn or the next. We should put two dice into such a deployment project, or none at all.
Cutting MARV construction expenses wouldn't free us from all these problems necessarily, but it'd at least free us from some of them.