Current Economic Issues:
Housing: Significant Surplus (+10)
Energy: Massive Surpluses (+21)
Logistics: Marginal Surpluses (+5)
Food: Significant Surpluses (+8) (+4 stored)
Health: Substantially improved (+5)
Capital Goods: Meeting Demand (+2)
Consumer Goods: Titanic Shortages (-15)
Labor: Gargantuan Surpluses (67)
Tiberium Processing Capacity (1180/1250)
Yellow Zone
Water: Limited Surpluses (+3)
Current Economic Issues:
Housing: Significant Surplus (+10)
Energy: Massive Surpluses (+21)
Logistics: Major Surpluses (+6)
Food: Significant Surpluses (+8) (+4 stored)
Health: Substantially improved (+5)
Capital Goods: Meeting Demand (+2)
Consumer Goods: Large Shortages (-7)
Labor: Gargantuan Surpluses (67)
Tiberium Processing Capacity (1190/1300)
Yellow Zone
Water: Limited Surpluses (+3)
@Ithillid There appears to have been an error when updating the Economic Issues tracker. Going by the projects completed this turn, we gained +1 Housing, spent -8 Energy, spent -1 Food, spent -2 Capital Goods, and spent -9 Labor. (Other changes appear to be correct.) If there were no other changes or unknown effects, then going by my counting the current stats should be:

Current Economic Issues:
Housing: Significant Surplus (+11)
Energy: ? Surpluses (+13)
Logistics: Major Surpluses (+6)
Food: Significant Surpluses (+7) (+4 stored)
Health: Substantially improved (+5)
Capital Goods: Meeting Demand (=)
Consumer Goods: Large Shortages (-7)
Labor: Gargantuan Surpluses (+58)
Tiberium Processing Capacity (1190/1300)
Yellow Zone
Water: Limited Surpluses (+3)
 
We can't really say that when one of our first major commitments was pretty much giving ZOCOM ubiquitous power armor. Which is both not low cost, and targeted a crack/cutting edge regiment.

Add to that. We had the option to disband them and we didn't. So they were important enough to keep around but not enough to roll equipment out for them. So they got to use the same gear Kane walked on them with. Or down grade to GDI standard gear which was having issues as well.

I grok why the grunts aren't happy.
 
@Ithillid There appears to have been an error when updating the Economic Issues tracker. Going by the projects completed this turn, we gained +1 Housing, spent -8 Energy, spent -1 Food, spent -2 Capital Goods, and spent -9 Labor. (Other changes appear to be correct.) If there were no other changes or unknown effects, then going by my counting the current stats should be:
Keep in mind as we bring people in from the YZ we are getting some labor bumps though not enough to counter the -9 drop
 
We're going to have a bunch of short term capital goods demands too though, for strategic planning and Governor shipyards and who knows what else will crop up. So LCI should get to work on the myomers, chemical plants and superconductors to get cap goods with those dice, and we should probably throw in Kure before plowing all the HI dice into Boston.
I largely agree with this; LCL should cover our immediate Capital Goods needs while we build up North Boston. But I desperately want to fit Personal Pharmaceuticals Plants in there somewhere too. It's our only way to increase our Health stat, which affects our medical research and protects against negative events. One of the victory conditions from the first post was a medical research one, and if we make enough progress there to partially immunize people against Tiberium infection it'll be a major advantage over Kane in negotiations. Plus in the more immediate term, last time we had +6 Health we had the following narrative, which indicates to me that +6 Health may be an important threshold:
Welfare Department
Right now, the Treasury has done quite a bit to reduce the demand on medical services. This has allowed many doctors to go on break somewhat more regularly, and has made the Treasury quite popular with the branch.
 
Heads up to prospective plan makers: there will be sweeping changes to quest options come tomorrow. Might be best to hold off before making draft plans.

From Discord said:
Ithillid — Today at 6:38 PM
Going to try to work on fixing up the missed stuff and preparing the sweeping changes that come tomorrow.

Ithillid — Today at 6:48 PM
At least half of the options will be seeing changes.

Vehrec — Today at 6:50 PM
oh boy
what did we do to earn this?

Ithillid — Today at 6:51 PM
Interdepartmental, and a new parliament.
There are options that are politically viable now that were not last year.

Ithillid — Today at 6:52 PM
And with at least half of your term in office over, you can pick your sucessor.

Vehrec — Today at 6:53 PM
and here I thought all Interdepartmental was gonna do was put gold stars on things other people really want

Ithillid — Today at 6:53 PM
It will.
But it will also see lower priority projects showing up.
 
With three quarters of continued development towards projects proposed by the Steel Talons, the air of hostility towards the Treasury has settled to a state of worn resentment. Should the current pace of Steel Talons projects be continued, even at a more relaxed but constant pace, the animus towards Treasury may abate in two decades...
I take this as intelligence telling us that the only way to get back to the Steel Talons feeling neutral toward the Treasury is to wait until the current crop of officers and soldiers either retire or finish their service so we can start fresh with a whole new bunch of people.
 
do we really care if the steel talons like us or not

like it get that the branch that does the least amount of actual combat is salty they went to the bottom of the priority lost in favor of equipment that aren't equipment testbeds but so long as they aren't mutinous I don't really see it as a concern, especially as we have the income and slack in our plan goals to begin dumping absurd amounts of dice per turn into military gear, theirs included.
 
A few interesting developments there. Looks like we might need to target some resources into anti-air hardware.

Where sensible, I'd like to shift away from using HI or LCI dice on Consumer Goods for a bit. We are going to continue to get Consumer Goods coming out of Agri and Services (or even Infra).
I'd also like to avoid using free dice on Orbital. I don't see it as a priority at the moment.
Capitol Goods are an issue. Boston appears to be a good option, but it is going to take ages. While it seems likely we'll need Boston or the Heavy Industry sectors, I think we should chase those smaller specialised projects to see if they unlock other benefits. It may even be worth starting Tokyo to see what it is going to be producing.
 
do we really care if the steel talons like us or not

like it get that the branch that does the least amount of actual combat is salty they went to the bottom of the priority lost in favor of equipment that aren't equipment testbeds but so long as they aren't mutinous I don't really see it as a concern, especially as we have the income and slack in our plan goals to begin dumping absurd amounts of dice per turn into military gear, theirs included.
Potential problem is that the Steel Talons are well connected in the GDi military due to being the alpha/beta testers of the GDI's military gear. Plus given their role as the designated defenders of GDI RnD facilities and other critical installations the Talons are also well connected in the GDI's scientific community and beyond.

This translates to the Talons having politically powerful backers that can make things difficult (i.e. more PS cost) for Granger to push through his #1 chosen successor instead of having to accept a compromise candidate.
 
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We can't really say that when one of our first major commitments was pretty much giving ZOCOM ubiquitous power armor. Which is both not low cost, and targeted a crack/cutting edge regiment.
We gave them that because it was absolutely necessary to allow for containment of the death crystal and feed the remains of our industry. You can't use a heavy walker to refine crystal after all.
 
We currently have 1321 different supportive representatives out of 1800.

Which gives Dr. Granger an approval rating of 73.39% going into this new parliament.
Not bad for a guy who is not a politician.
 
They have every right to be Salty we did leave them to hang for the longest time and I doubt as long as Granger is in charge they'll ever really like him but again that's fine as long as they can work with us that's all that matters. And as long as we continue to play catch up with our military as well.
Broadly that's my sentiment. I do not even slightly begrudge the Talons their right to be salty about Granger and the Treasury for decades if they're so inclined. At the same time, I don't think we made the wrong choice in refusing to fund their projects while we were desperately scrambling to get up some semblance of a viable tiberium mitigation system. What little overage we could spare from tiberium mitigation and the capital goods crisis, the regular rank and file military badly needed too.

And given that Ground Forces outnumbers the Talons by well over an order of magnitude, if I have to choose one or the other to support, Ground Forces will win.

any chance for us to place 2 dice on Tokyo Chip Fabricator instead of Boston?
With the Consumer Goods crisis now mitigated to the point where our "shortage" is no longer an infinite yawning bottomless pit where we can't read the dials because all the needles are pegged hard against the "BAD" end of the scale... Well, Tokyo is still something we should do, but it just lacks the immediate payoff we anticipate from North Boston.

Tokyo's supposed to be doing the cutting edge stuff though, so it probably opens up tech advancement options. Or at least refinement options. Cons Goods are something we need, but it'd be nice to do Tokyo sometime sooner then later I'd think.
No, Tokyo's producing goods (that is, computer chips) basically similar to what's already produced. It's the Kure Machine Works that's cutting edge.

its still 2 dice and gives us a good indicator if we want to expand there in future we see how good stage 2 is plus its still cheaper to do now than half way doing boston
We know what Tokyo does; it does the same thing the Boston stages did, just with the amount of Capital and Consumer Goods reversed. We don't need to spend dice to find out what it does, and frankly it's much more efficient to concentrate on the later stages of a project like this; they're more rewarding.

We can't really say that when one of our first major commitments was pretty much giving ZOCOM ubiquitous power armor. Which is both not low cost, and targeted a crack/cutting edge regiment.
ZOCOM's equipment is high-tech but, after the Third Tiberium War, the Zone suits cannot be said to be "cutting-edge." They were also a relatively large force, and specifically trained to perform a kind of operation that was urgently needed.

The Steel Talons, valuable though their military research programs are, were not doing anything as urgent and pivotal to immediate military necessity. Given that through the course of the First Plan we started out with food shortages worldwide and had to resolve a "tiberium will eat us all by 2068 if not sooner" crisis and a "the industrial economy will collapse in a few years' time if we don't rev up Capital Goods production, there is not a single major working microchip foundry left on the planet" crisis...

Someone was gonna have to take one for the team. And given that tiberium mitigation was A Thing, the Steel Talons taking the hit was better than the alternative.

I'm not saying they don't have a right to be salty about it, but we did what we did for a reason and shouldn't pretend that it was a mistake after the fact when everything we now have the capacity to do is an outgrowth of all the effort we spent standing up Zone Trooper units and glacier mines and North Boston last Plan.
 
do we really care if the steel talons like us or not

like it get that the branch that does the least amount of actual combat is salty they went to the bottom of the priority lost in favor of equipment that aren't equipment testbeds but so long as they aren't mutinous I don't really see it as a concern, especially as we have the income and slack in our plan goals to begin dumping absurd amounts of dice per turn into military gear, theirs included.
I remind you that between the wars when Nod split following Slavik's death it was the Talons who got hold of, examined and locked away the majority of the data on Nods advanced stealth tech while also keeping the Black Hand bottled up in Australia for years. That was a long period of continuous low-medium intensity combat to keep Marcion and his people contained, his people who developed advanced power armour to march Zone Armour and made the Purifier and the flame tank.

Tack on to that that they protected the Tacitus at Cheyenne alongside other units, their stuff isn't just testbeds. It works and works damn well but costs an arm and a leg to produce/operate so it stays with their elite combat branch which were only beaten when: A, LEGION blindsided them. And B, LEGION took the cybernetically enhanced Marked to steal the Tacitus.

Add to that that their stuff still needs field tested in actual combat and they probably do their fair share. Much like the Guard regiments of the British Army, they may be elite units who stand (a not entirely ceremonial) guard most of the time but they still get rotated in and out of the front lines when we fight. Those medals are not for show. Any sort of "elite" formation throughout history has always either been really damn good because they get sent in to fight in areas where you want your best forces or really crap because they were treated as toy soldiers. So whilst they may not get rotated off of guard duty as much as other units GDI knows their value and will stick them in the meat grinder where they need the best troops to push through or in slightly less vital areas to blood recruits/conduct a combat test of a new piece of equipment.

They were ignored because people saw the word "mech" near the Talons and didn't want to do it, also everything was on fire, but the biggest reason I saw being argued against them was that they want mechs. It was only repeated reminders that they have all the shiny toys for the rest of the armed forces behind their projects and the military putting the brakes on further expansion that saw them get any funding along with the rest of the military. Even then when we were dumping huge amounts of money into the military most of that went into land battleships which we've been asked to cut back on a bit and every other branch bar them. ZOCOM don't count they got all the early funding so we could rebuild.

I'm not arguing against us delaying the Talons but can you get why an elite combat unit with what is probably a hilariously large R&D staff behind them might be upset at being ordered to go into battle while still weakened from Cheyenne with last wars gear? Even while the Army got railguns for its tanks (which probably could of waited a bit) and ZOCOM got handed shiny new factories while they had to deal with stuff Nod knows how to counter with shrinking air superiority. Sure, we're fixing those problems now but that's 5-6 years after they asked for the funds to do their jobs and the airforce whom the Talons probably relied quite a bit on actually almost lost air superiority. Yes, there were plenty of other fires but we also spent a fair bit of time stretching every branch bar the space force further and further when in hindsight we now know we should have been throwing the military a bone.

Again, they do deserve the right to be upset but let's at least understand that they aren't a flashy display unit or a unit dedicated to producing over-engineered boondoggles that might not work. They are an elite R&D unit that does outstanding work making the gear we will need for TW4 and beyond and will do their fair share of fighting while doing so.
 
We gave them that because it was absolutely necessary to allow for containment of the death crystal and feed the remains of our industry. You can't use a heavy walker to refine crystal after all.
You can use MARVs, and ZOCOM troops already had the best infantry armor among GDI.
I'm not saying they don't have a right to be salty about it, but we did what we did for a reason and shouldn't pretend that it was a mistake after the fact when everything we now have the capacity to do is an outgrowth of all the effort we spent standing up Zone Trooper units and glacier mines and North Boston last Plan.
I'm not actually railing against how we underfunded Steel Talon, I'm saying there were more realities to the situation than 'do you favor an elite unit or mass roll outs' and cost affordability.
 
Broadly that's my sentiment. I do not even slightly begrudge the Talons their right to be salty about Granger and the Treasury for decades if they're so inclined. At the same time, I don't think we made the wrong choice in refusing to fund their projects while we were desperately scrambling to get up some semblance of a viable tiberium mitigation system. What little overage we could spare from tiberium mitigation and the capital goods crisis, the regular rank and file military badly needed too.

And given that Ground Forces outnumbers the Talons by well over an order of magnitude, if I have to choose one or the other to support, Ground Forces will win.
Same here at the time we simply had different priority's that happens. But now those Priorities have changed so we're giving the various military branches the attention they need and to catch up on the arms race. And as you said the reason we're only getting to the Steel Talons now is because the ground forces are the primary land force the steel talons are at best a branch of that so of course we would focus on the mainline first.

What matters now though is that we spend consistently on all military branches to play catch up and not just on MARV's. Because there is a tech gap that we need to catch up on with NOD.
 
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I'm not arguing against us delaying the Talons but can you get why an elite combat unit with what is probably a hilariously large R&D staff behind them might be upset at being ordered to go into battle while still weakened from Cheyenne with last wars gear? Even while the Army got railguns for its tanks (which probably could of waited a bit) and ZOCOM got handed shiny new factories while they had to deal with stuff Nod knows how to counter with shrinking air superiority. Sure, we're fixing those problems now but that's 5-6 years after they asked for the funds to do their jobs and the airforce whom the Talons probably relied quite a bit on actually almost lost air superiority. Yes, there were plenty of other fires but we also spent a fair bit of time stretching every branch bar the space force further and further when in hindsight we now know we should have been throwing the military a bone

Also as the guys who make the new tech? I'm sure they are also frustrated watching the slow roll out of upgrades. It's not just the people they're losing but they were sitting on testbeds for rapid rail guns and the like which could've saved lives in their heads. So they're probably double dipping on salt atm.
 
Here's what I've got for a draft.

[ ] Plan Chimeraguard Draft
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[ ] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2), 3 dice (30 Resources)
-[ ] Yellow Zone Arcologies (Phase 1), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
...
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[ ] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions, 2 dice (10 Resources)
-[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3), 3 dice (60 Resources)
I think I'd rather, if there was a way, flip one of the Prospecting dice to Chicago and flip the Infrastructure die on Chicago to Tidal Power. The problem is, of course, that this isn't a resource-neutral option; we'd need to find five resources from somewhere, and they're kind of short unless we do something a bit exotic like flip an Enterprise die to orbital cleanup.

Services (4 dice)
-[ ] Game Development Studios, 4 dice (20 Resources)
While there will hopefully be attractive new Services options, this is admittedly not the turn to take them, I suppose.

Military (5 dice +5 Free)
-[ ] Reclamator Hub (RZ-7 North), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Reclamator Fleet YZ-5a (Super MARVs), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[ ] Remote Weapons System Rollout, 1 die (10 Resources)
-[ ] Ablative Plating Refits? (or another die into RWS), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[ ] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards, 2 dice (30 Resources?)
-[ ] Titan Mark 3 Deployment, 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[ ] Security Review, 1 die
I'd rather concentrate on RWS rollout. With two dice we might clear the first stage if it's a phased project, whereas a single die won't get us anywhere near done on Phase 2 of ablatives. I'd rather focus on one of those projects at a time, rather than slow-walk both, because there are important milestones like "we have enough of the good stuff to use it in a major offensive on one continent" and "we have enough of the good stuff to equip our rapid response forces with it on all continents" at the end of each phase.

Infrastructure, try to finish up YZ Arcologies. Tidal Power Plants gets 3 dice because they're our next source of power and we want to stay ahead of the curve there. My last die goes towards Chicago because Need Abatement.
Again, I'd always rather focus tiberium dice on Chicago than infrastructure; it reduces conflicts and the tiberium dice will always stretch that little extra bit farther.

HI, 1 die into Fusion Peaker Plants to keep the R&D and Power train going. 2 dice go into Heavy Rolling Stock because we really can't afford for that to not complete, we need the Capital Goods. 2 remaining Dice go into either Kure or Boston. They both cost the same Resources per Die, so it's a question on if we want to grab Kure, or start rolling for the big Boston Push.
I think we want Kure; we're getting increasing hints that we need the ability to make more advanced machine tools.

Military continues the MARV rollout (YZ Rollout gets 2 dice just in case our NOD friends decide they'd rather crash the hub before the MARVs finish, plus it's more Resources and Abatement early)...
You're not wrong, but ironically I'm more worried about Nod hitting the Chicago hub while it's still under construction, because the defenses aren't finished. Also because Nod in South America is running into problems, in that they don't have the new high-agility Banshee-bis fighter and are having to contend with our anti-laser ablatives.

Rollout the Titans to continue providing Steel Talons with consistent funding, get the Governors out for the Navy, and then it's RWS, maybe with a bit of Ablatives to, since it's the next in-demand thing. And we do a Security Review because that's been waiting for far too long as-is.
We should, again, focus in on RWS or Ablatives, not both, because neither project is going to get far with only a single die rolled.

Also as the guys who make the new tech? I'm sure they are also frustrated watching the slow roll out of upgrades. It's not just the people they're losing but they were sitting on testbeds for rapid rail guns and the like which could've saved lives in their heads. So they're probably double dipping on salt atm.
True, true, but not gonna lie, I feel like we're pushing up against the limit of how much we should be kicking ourselves over it.

Our underlying position was something like:

"We don't have the spare budget to work on next-generation super-science railguns and mecha prototypes when millions of people are eating fungus bars and no one can afford a shirt and the entire industrial economy will LITERALLY collapse in a single digit number of years at this rate because Nod wrecked every major semiconductor fabber on the planet, oh, and yeah about that tiberium..."

It wasn't all nonsense, there were reasons for it. The Talons have their reasons and I don't begrudge them their hard feelings over it, but we ourselves shouldn't end up overcompensating. There will never, never be enough resources to play Santa Claus for everyone at the same time. And while we can and should do our best to keep any one area from becoming a critical shortfall, there's a certain decorous limit to how much regret it's worth having over the fact that we didn't play Santa Claus for all the deserving good little boys.
 
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True, true, but not gonna lie, I feel like we're pushing up against the limit of how much we should be kicking ourselves over it.

I wouldn't advocate getting to torn up about it. What's done is done. We just need to grok why these guys are mad. And put on our big boy pants and move on with modernization.

Like you said it was a resource issue when we started out. Nature of the beast. Clean up of bad policy and the last war was going to cost lives. The grunts took it on the chin. If we had focused on them? Civs in the Yellow zone would've been in bags.

As long as we spread the wealth with upgrades in the future? We won't end up here again.
 
So, question about NOD and the yellow zones.

Historically, NOD pulled the majority of its troops from disenfranchised yellow zoners, right? If not a supermajority. They had a core of true believers and properly trained crew and soldiers, but even they had to come from somewhere, again probably tying into GDI's fucktastrophy about actually helping out the yellow zones.

But now we're forcing more investment into yellow zones. We should be eating into NOD'd recruitment base.

Has this had an effect on NOD's military campaigns? The general mood with the military is we've fallen behind and are only now starting to put in the work to catch up, but would the current theaters have looked even bloodier if we hadn't put all that work into the economy and all the social policies? Would they have had the forces to fight us on even more fronts?

And, if any of this is accurate...

The in-chapter military people are justifiably angry at us for putting them off so long, but I wonder if they would ever consider that we were already firing the opening shots against NOD with every house, solar tarp, and food delivery. And they may be feeling a tech crunch now, but we saved them a whole lot of dying by the numbers in exchange.
 
But now we're forcing more investment into yellow zones. We should be eating into NOD'd recruitment base.
To some extent, you are. The thing is that you have very little force projection actually into the Yellow Zones. You have a small band of Yellow Zones beyond the limits of the Blue Zones. The rest of the world, places like southern China, the vast majority of Africa, India, South America, you just don't have a serious presence. There are occasional lines and holdings, often supporting harvesting operations, but generally those are massively limited in scale.
 
We should be eating into NOD'd recruitment base.
We are in a sense. Last "hard number" that I recall is that for what would have given NOD 100 mooks will only give them 98. Not enough to really reduce their recruitment at the moment. If we can get deeper effective penetration and force projection into the YZ and RZ, expect the number to change rapidly.

As for now, NOD is currently aware but not that worried.
 
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