- Location
- USA
Boston is not feasible until we get more energy power, we are running close and relying on energy Q2 and Q3 to stay positive, swapping to full boston means we add another energy demand and no energy prodcution
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't know if it's one or two more phases. But we will still have other options: RZ containment lines are building fortifications along what we already have rather than taking new territory. We still need to do the processing plants even if just for the MARV's income. We can spend Tiberium dice on Chicago. And if we somehow have spare logistics we could put a die or two on the Sweeper Convoys; see if that projects unlocks something.
Regardless, we should just concentrate on finishing BZ fencing first for now anyways. We need as large a BZ buffer as possible to delay Tiberium mutation from reaching our industrial centers for as long as we can. And for that BZ fencing is just more efficient, cheaper, and more secure than YZ harvesting. Plus for all we know BZ fencing will unlock other projects that we might want to do as well.
- Location
- USA
Chicago is pushing out though the same YZ harvest is and from the push back on RZ containment it seemed to me that YZ was the less mil intensive of our options. We also get processing increase from Chicago.
- Location
- nz
Combined Boston and military refits is only -2 power (Boston is --- and refits is ++). This is mainly done instead of building new factories for 2 turns and will have a MUCH larger effect on military than building a couple of new factories. We do have plenty of low power options we can take for 2 turns.
Although what is our power following last turn?
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Well, we can always ask.
@Ithillid In terms of GDI Military overextension, which is the worst and which is the least stressful? RZ Containment Lines, YZ Harvesting, or Planned Cities?
And does the military think it can handle any of those in the near future? Or is more investment needed before it feels safe enough to even try?
@Ithillid In terms of GDI Military overextension, which is the worst and which is the least stressful? RZ Containment Lines, YZ Harvesting, or Planned Cities?
And does the military think it can handle any of those in the near future? Or is more investment needed before it feels safe enough to even try?
So we've got 6 Energy left at the end of this quarter according to Lightwhispers, which is a major problem. Even if we just count the projects on the partially completed list we've got Blue Zone Arcologies and Vertical farming, each of which produce 4 Consumer Goods and require 2 Energy. Phase 3 of Shell Plants requires 2 Energy as well, while the Apollo factory at Toronto requires 4 Energy. The Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sector needs 2 Energy to produce 8 Consumer Goods, but it also needs 2 Capital Goods as well, and most of the other projects which produce Capital Goods have Energy requirements of their own.
We desperately need Fusion Power Prototype as soon as possible to unlock fusion power and more efficient Energy options, because we can't keep going with supplying less and less Energy for more Energy-hungry options.
We desperately need Fusion Power Prototype as soon as possible to unlock fusion power and more efficient Energy options, because we can't keep going with supplying less and less Energy for more Energy-hungry options.
That's a net +6 energy from the results of this turn, leaving us with +8 total.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Nitpick, as you pointed out Chicago will cause the same kind of "overextend the military" problems as expanding Yellow Zone harvesting in general.
With the Valparaiso plant online, we can if we have to justify delaying the Apollo factory. That makes the power budget situation a bit less dire.
Yes, yes, I know, we want to reassert air supremacy. On the other hand, we also want a functioning economy with no rolling blackouts.
Again, I'm not proposing that we stop MARV construction for any reason other than getting silo'd by lack of refining capacity.
But I want a clear understanding of what's going on under the hood.
For instance, from the sound of it, if we full-stopped MARV construction now and built no more, and pardon the blasphemy because I'm not recommending such a foolish course of action... We'd likely have Major Stavrakas reporting to the legislature in some kind of inquest about bureaucratic fuckery interfering with MARV operations.
If we stopped at four fleets, the legislature probably wouldn't be riding us about it, but Major Stavrakas might well resign and go back to the military or something.
I'd sort of idly contemplated that but hadn't reached the level of bringing it up in thread. It's basically the only Capital Goods option that pays for something that big all by itself.
I'd also like to at least start the Tokyo plant if we can, though.
Dr. Granger will be all like "I told you that solving the capital goods crisis and obsessively mining a jillion tons of tiberium during the first Plan was going to be important and lead to great things. But did you believe me!?"
Hawks: "...No."
Development: "...Yes."
[look at each other awkwardly]
By itself Boston Phase 4 is only -4 Energy. I... think... there are ways we could scrape that together, especially if we settle for leaving the (now partially built) Toronto fighter assembly line unfinished for another turn or two.
Given the massive implications for the military production situation as a whole, I think the military as a whole (if not the Air Force) would forgive us for that.
I mean, for crying out loud, they're the military in a Command and Conquer game. They understand that sometimes you have to play elaborate and fucky games with base power budget management.
Last edited:
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
I am... very tempted to try and complete Boston Stage 4 + Refits before Elections, but I think we'd have to sacrifice too much in HI to really do it. Big thing being Yellow Zone Power Grid, which we want before election time so the Yellow Zoners can vote. Plus continuing Fusion Reactor experiments.
But I think it may be possible to at least get BigBoston started before elections if we commit to it.
But I think it may be possible to at least get BigBoston started before elections if we commit to it.
I'd also like to at least start the Tokyo plant if we can, though.
Tokyo up to Phase 3 should get us cumulatively +10 Consumer Goods and +4 CapGoods, if I remember the math right and it's a mirror of Boston.
With Boston Phase 4 only being -4 Energy, and the Military refits gets +2, if we do PD deployment, myomers , MARVs, and development for future deployments we won't have too much of an Energy problem.
I'm not sure I want to push Boston, but it's not as unfeasible as some are saying.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's feasable. It's just not our best plan of action right now. Not for the elections coming up, certainly; if nothing else we need YZ power extension to get more YZ voters, and dong that at the past minute (again) won't be as effective as doing it earlier.
One thing that hasn't come up yet is that the more tech we replace, the less it'll cost to do the wartime factory refits. If we research a new line of tanks, for example, then a new modern tank factory won't have the capital goods shortage problems the old one did. And I believe this cost reduction also applies to needing less capital goods. So it's a problem that will partially solve itself over time as we do more military projects.
One thing that hasn't come up yet is that the more tech we replace, the less it'll cost to do the wartime factory refits. If we research a new line of tanks, for example, then a new modern tank factory won't have the capital goods shortage problems the old one did. And I believe this cost reduction also applies to needing less capital goods. So it's a problem that will partially solve itself over time as we do more military projects.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Yeah. We almost certainly want to wait at least another turn to get our other HI projects out of the way. Maybe even waiting until we have Phase 2 Power Production done to make sure we'll keep a surplus up no matter how long this takes.
But it's something I am thinking we should get to doing when we can. Not only would it let us do the big refits, but it'd solve our Capital Goods goal practically on its own.
And if our projects in the meantime end up meaning we don't use all of Boston's capital goods? Well, we've got plenty of other projects to spend them on.
But it's something I am thinking we should get to doing when we can. Not only would it let us do the big refits, but it'd solve our Capital Goods goal practically on its own.
And if our projects in the meantime end up meaning we don't use all of Boston's capital goods? Well, we've got plenty of other projects to spend them on.
Main constraint in Yellow Zones is communication links. And right now, our Yellow Zone population is actually more enfranchised than our Blue Zone population until fiber optics roll out completes.
18 dice gives a 68% chance of finishing Boston. Basically, we could totally shock it in 2 turns and along with war-refits we could gain access to another 1/2 mil dice...
What do we really lose by fully dedicating HI for 2 turns? Energy production.
Looking at it, we could probably afford to do it but it would also mean heavy commitment to HI for a third turn so that we could crash course some of energy production things, like fusion and yellow energy. On balance, considering the benefits of war-refit and basically finishing our cap good goal it probably is worth it. Although streching Boston to 3 turns so that we can do some energy production during the building would probably be smarter.
- Location
- nz
With +8 energy left, in terms of power for doing Boston and military refits and 'Plan Rebuilding The Machine part 1' I've mathed some and come up with the following energy draws that will or need to be completed, I've included YZ industrial sectors as I think everyone wants to complete that.
[ ] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1)
(Progress 140/450: 15 Resources per Die) (++++ Housing, +++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy)
[ ] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4)
(Progress 64/1200: 15 resources per die) ( +++++ Capital Goods ++++ Consumer Goods -- Labor --- Energy)
[ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors
(Progress 0/400: 10 Resources per die) (++++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy, -- Capital Goods, --- Labor)
[ ] Vertical Farming projects
( Progress 136/250: 15 resources per die) (+++ Food, +++ Consumer goods, -- Energy)
which is -12
In the positive that can be completed are
[ ] Wartime Factory Refits
(Progress 0/350: 20 Resources per die) (----- Capital Goods, ++ Energy) (+1d2 Military Dice)
[ ] Superconductor Foundries
(Progress 0/200: 30 resources per die) (++ Capital Goods, +++ Energy)
So with adding Superconductor from LCI we can reach +6 energy to total +14 leaving +2 energy which is closer than I'd like but still doable but means switching to Superconductor Foundries instead of Bulk Plastics Facilities. The 2 dice on Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting were being pulled anyway and nicely frees up the extra 40R to do super conductors. So new plan looks like
[] Rebuilding The Machine part 1
Infra 5/5 70R +12
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1) 304/450 2 dice 30 R 45%
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 82/240 2 dice 40 R 34%
-[] Die to Bureau for Security Review
HI 5/5 +5 dice 150R +15 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4) 64/1200 10 dice 150R 0%
LC 3/3 30R +12
-[] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors 116/400 1 die 10R 0%
-[] Superconductor Foundries 0/200 2 dice 60R 8%
Agri 3/3 35R +12
-[] Vertical Farming projects 227/250 1 dice 15 R 100% (10% omake used)
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays 0/300 2 dice 20 R 0%
Tiberium 3/5 45R +30 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 3) 273/400 3 dice 45 R
Orbital 2/3 30R +12
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 1) 59/90 1 fusion die 20R 97% (15% omake used)
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 2) 108/135 1 fusion die 10R 100% (14% omake used)
Services 4/4 20R +27
-[] Game Development Studios 0/300 3 dice 15R 16%
-[] Childcare and Preschool programs 155/200 1 die 5R 98% (15% omake used)
Military 5/5 95R +12
-[] Wartime Factory Refits 0/350 1 die 20R 0%
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ 6 South (Super MARVs) 0/210 3 dice 60 R
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 3) 120/150 1 die 10R 98% (15% omake used)
Bureau 3/3 +12
-[] Security Review (Infra) 3 dice +1 Infra 100%
Also can do review of Tib department if that's better than Infra.
I think it's worth noting that this plan still includes completing important things like Fiber optics, YZ industrial and expand orbital coms for the election as well as keeping up with space and building MARVs.
Edit: noticed mistake in services should be 3 dice on Game Development Studios for 16%
[ ] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1)
(Progress 140/450: 15 Resources per Die) (++++ Housing, +++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy)
[ ] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4)
(Progress 64/1200: 15 resources per die) ( +++++ Capital Goods ++++ Consumer Goods -- Labor --- Energy)
[ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors
(Progress 0/400: 10 Resources per die) (++++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy, -- Capital Goods, --- Labor)
[ ] Vertical Farming projects
( Progress 136/250: 15 resources per die) (+++ Food, +++ Consumer goods, -- Energy)
which is -12
In the positive that can be completed are
[ ] Wartime Factory Refits
(Progress 0/350: 20 Resources per die) (----- Capital Goods, ++ Energy) (+1d2 Military Dice)
[ ] Superconductor Foundries
(Progress 0/200: 30 resources per die) (++ Capital Goods, +++ Energy)
So with adding Superconductor from LCI we can reach +6 energy to total +14 leaving +2 energy which is closer than I'd like but still doable but means switching to Superconductor Foundries instead of Bulk Plastics Facilities. The 2 dice on Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting were being pulled anyway and nicely frees up the extra 40R to do super conductors. So new plan looks like
[] Rebuilding The Machine part 1
Infra 5/5 70R +12
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1) 304/450 2 dice 30 R 45%
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 82/240 2 dice 40 R 34%
-[] Die to Bureau for Security Review
HI 5/5 +5 dice 150R +15 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4) 64/1200 10 dice 150R 0%
LC 3/3 30R +12
-[] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors 116/400 1 die 10R 0%
-[] Superconductor Foundries 0/200 2 dice 60R 8%
Agri 3/3 35R +12
-[] Vertical Farming projects 227/250 1 dice 15 R 100% (10% omake used)
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays 0/300 2 dice 20 R 0%
Tiberium 3/5 45R +30 (-2 for 2 years due to graduates)
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 3) 273/400 3 dice 45 R
Orbital 2/3 30R +12
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 1) 59/90 1 fusion die 20R 97% (15% omake used)
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 2) 108/135 1 fusion die 10R 100% (14% omake used)
Services 4/4 20R +27
-[] Game Development Studios 0/300 3 dice 15R 16%
-[] Childcare and Preschool programs 155/200 1 die 5R 98% (15% omake used)
Military 5/5 95R +12
-[] Wartime Factory Refits 0/350 1 die 20R 0%
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ 6 South (Super MARVs) 0/210 3 dice 60 R
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 3) 120/150 1 die 10R 98% (15% omake used)
Bureau 3/3 +12
-[] Security Review (Infra) 3 dice +1 Infra 100%
Also can do review of Tib department if that's better than Infra.
I think it's worth noting that this plan still includes completing important things like Fiber optics, YZ industrial and expand orbital coms for the election as well as keeping up with space and building MARVs.
Edit: noticed mistake in services should be 3 dice on Game Development Studios for 16%
Last edited:
- Location
- The Underdark
Overall, when it comes to the refits, there are two ways to handle them.
Option 1, build one or more big HI projects that make lots and lots of capital goods, and then go in and refit all the old factories. Big, expensive, hard work.
Option 2, is to actually out tech the situation. Instead of trying to do a massive infusion of capital goods, you do a bunch of the development and rollout projects.
So how that would work in the case of the MBT-7 Paladin is that you do
- Titan Mk3
- Ablat
- Remote Weapons System
- Lasers
or at least some combination of the above, and you would eventually get an option that says
[ ] MBT-7 Development
and then
[ ] MBT-7 Factories
and a few sub options for big factories that eat up some capital goods because this is a big backbone of your military level project, but overall less capital goods than fixing all of the old stuff.
Option 1, build one or more big HI projects that make lots and lots of capital goods, and then go in and refit all the old factories. Big, expensive, hard work.
Option 2, is to actually out tech the situation. Instead of trying to do a massive infusion of capital goods, you do a bunch of the development and rollout projects.
So how that would work in the case of the MBT-7 Paladin is that you do
- Titan Mk3
- Ablat
- Remote Weapons System
- Lasers
or at least some combination of the above, and you would eventually get an option that says
[ ] MBT-7 Development
and then
[ ] MBT-7 Factories
and a few sub options for big factories that eat up some capital goods because this is a big backbone of your military level project, but overall less capital goods than fixing all of the old stuff.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
If we were to do the "fix the old stuff" option, and then start doing things like MBT-7 Development, would there be any different effects once it's time to make factories?
Because I do want to get a lot of heavy metal out there now, but I also say we need to tech up. We can't fight the whole next Tiberium War with the last Tiberium War's army, just bigger and more numerous.
On the other hand, the military seriously needs a boost right now, and R&D will take a long time compared to Big Boston -> Refits.
Because I do want to get a lot of heavy metal out there now, but I also say we need to tech up. We can't fight the whole next Tiberium War with the last Tiberium War's army, just bigger and more numerous.
On the other hand, the military seriously needs a boost right now, and R&D will take a long time compared to Big Boston -> Refits.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Underdark
The refit is much cheaper, but involves a massive immediate expenditure of capital goods. Once you total everything up the new tech is going to be much more expensive, in terms of resources and progress, and to some extent in capital goods, but you have to pay that anyway, and it is broken up across several different programs to replace different parts of your military, rather than some massive single project.
- Location
- nz
Well I'm all in on refits, then upgrading. Mostly because currently if NOD united they could roll us. And justifying the treasury building this massive budget. Also not gonna lie, the meme worthy value of getting it done before election might be a part of it.
Does this mean capital goods cost is lower overall for Refits+Upgrades than going straight upgrades?
Does this mean capital goods cost is lower overall for Refits+Upgrades than going straight upgrades?
- Location
- The Underdark
Refits + Upgrades ends up being about the same as straight upgrades in total.
ODST-AdvRecon
Enjoyer of Chicken Tenders
- Location
- Asia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To be fair, GDI tech from the last Tiberium War was formidable. At present, I think it lost that edge but it is still reliable. I think going for their production now then upgrading later is a good choice. Having a ready, able, and well-equipped large force despite having outdated tech beats having a smaller one with newer tech if we want to make sure the current projects and efforts aren't lost, destroyed, or captured in the event of skirmishes, raids, or an all-out war. (Edit)One other possible plus side of this as well is that with a replenished force, they could buy GDI time. That's time that can be spent to plan and act accordingly in the case of a sudden and unexpected emergency. It's time made to drag out a fight over a Tiberium processing site, a fortress city, or blue zone areas before it's lost. Time bought to stall a battle over an asset or strategic point and before retaliating and securing it.
Sure, there would be a stockpile of 3rd Tiberium GDI tech once the upgrades come rolling out but those can serve as militia or reserve forces armaments down the line should the need ever arise (which I hope never would).
Sure, there would be a stockpile of 3rd Tiberium GDI tech once the upgrades come rolling out but those can serve as militia or reserve forces armaments down the line should the need ever arise (which I hope never would).
Last edited:
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
So like in this example. Does a freshly built model in this case preform better then the kitbash version that's a bunch of upgrades?
Concerning the power worries, we could instead commit to Boston in 3 (max) turns. 7 dice into Boston and then put the other 3 in fusion / yellow zone power. Resource wise the cost is the same; Boston is 15R, Fusion 20R and YZ Power 5R. The extra 3 power is small true but it gives us a little more wriggle room.
- Location
- The Underdark
Yes, that is why you would build it. If you could, you, like the US or pretty much everyone else, would keep using the 1980s era tanks, because they work well enough and can keep being upgraded. The array of changes represent a need to reformat nearly everything about the tank, from its hull shape, to ammunition handling, to fitting the laser emitters so they can have a decent arc of fire. To a fairly substantial degree, there are design considerations made in the 2030s that are fundamentally different to the ones made in the 2050s, and that would require a new platform and then their own development cycles on top of that.