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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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[X] Plan Superconductor Fusion and Communication
[X] Plan Gimme the Fruit

Not too much difference between the leading plans, which I like. It feels like people are able to find a consensus far easier than last time.
 
Most of this type of proposal, especially ones that would involve attempting to establish complete information control over the Yellow Zones are either functionally impossible, politically unacceptable, out of character, and some combination of the above.
 
Karlov said:
No, I want to ensure control over information to have control over the population, not allowing them to be informed about the true state of affairs. We can create information in the blue zones about constant conflicts in the hard and red zones, maintain the image of the enemy who is always nearby. Create a red and black alarm, where no one will think about us. On the contrary, the population will gladly sign war bonds.
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it would be practical if we go only by the metric ''how to defeat nod in propaganda''

but in the greater scheme of things you gotta remind who we are playing,we are playing the GDI a good albeit flawed faction leaded by dr granger wich doesnt strike me as ''pro-totalitarianism'' sort of guy

plus all the effort to turning the yellow zones into censored propaganda centers would easily used against us if any other party discovers it or nod releases the info of such plan

overall,just a stupid plan that ignores how we are a democratic elected faction so pulling a 1984 would get us couped or expelled by the army and/or the other parties
and thats assuming NOD doesnt use that to further their own propaganda to make up for the lack of numbers by radicalizing more people

or get support from anti-totalitarian groups inside the GDI
 
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Simon_Jester said:
This would not be beneficial, would make GDI weaker on net by limiting our ability to react rationally to the situation, and also be illegal because GDI is already a democracy and has a constitution with civil rights and so on.
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Not only that... he is talking about creating an imagined conflict in the red zones. Which is strange considering there is already a very real ongoing conflict in the red zones? You know that conflict that occassionally spawns global wars that are called tiberium wars?
 
Simon_Jester said:
This is a terrible idea and it sounds more like something you're suggesting because you have a fetish for totalitarian dystopias than because you think it will actually help.
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No, I'm not a fan of totalitarian systems. Let's just say that I rather have a slightly different vision of the seriousness of the situation. The war is officially over, the population is waiting for a rapid recovery.

I plan to turn to the pyramid of needs. The population in the blue zones is waiting for an improvement in the quality of life to meet their needs. The population in the yellow zones wants to move to the blue ones, as they believe that the current lifestyle is harmful to them, and they have where to retreat.

By isolating information, I say that it is possible to remove the discontent of the population. The populations of the blue zones remember the Third War, from which they only recently began to recover. They will be afraid of the return of the catastrophe from which they only recently managed to get out. And they will be happy to cut costs so that we can muster large troops, so that the war does not affect them, limiting ourselves to only blue zones.

Likewise, the yellow zones believe they have somewhere to retreat. We can cut off this information. Let them believe that the rate of growth of Tiberium is increasing. That over the next few years, several blue zones will be lost. That they simply have nowhere to evacuate, that there simply won't be any blue zones. As a result, our walled cities are arguably the safest place in the world to fight for.

We can reduce resource consumption and use it to strengthen the armed forces by rationing food, water and electricity.

But if qm said that it was impossible, then I would only agree with that.
 
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Karlov said:
Let's just say that I rather have a slightly different vision of the seriousness of the situation. The war is officially over, the population is waiting for a rapid recovery.
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You are distinctly wrong about the serious of the situation. The war has entered into a low intensity stage, but every day there are conflicts. It is Iraq or Afghanistan every day for the last fifty years. Things do not require the full force of GDI's military and economic might to be brought to bear against a military threat, but at the same time you are still fighting a war.
 
armentho said:
it would be practical if we go only by the metric ''how to defeat nod in propaganda''
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Except it wouldn't even do THAT, because it's predicated on the assumption that:

1) Nod supporters all geographically live in the Yellow Zones, or
2) GDI can function while maintaining total information control and censorship within the Blue Zones.

Neither of those is true, so it wouldn't even win the propaganda war while causing everything else to fall apart. It'd just... fail.

Scarecrow said:
Not only that... he is talking about creating an imagined conflict in the red zones. Which is strange considering there is already a very real ongoing conflict in the red zones? You know that conflict that occassionally spawns global wars that are called tiberium wars?
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Yeah. It's a plan that involves spending exorbitant amounts of time and effort controlling the populace, which is incredibly dangerous and unwise when we're already fighting a war where our own populace is mostly on our side but there are large neutral or hostile populations, beyond our reach, that are NOT on our side.

Karlov said:
No, I'm not a fan of totalitarian systems. Let's just say that I rather have a slightly different vision of the seriousness of the situation. The war is officially over, the population is waiting for a rapid recovery.
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Except that the war isn't over. Nod is still out there and fighting us in the Yellow Zones. Read the updates; there's evidence of this all over.

The intensity of the war has dropped off from the extremes of 2047 and the Third Tiberium War (chronicled in the games Command and Conquer: Tiberian Wars and the Kane's Wrath expansion pack), but it never actually stopped, and most Blue Zoners know it didn't stop. They do want improved quality of life, but neither our Blue Zone citizens nor our government are stupid enough to think the war's over.

I plan to turn to the pyramid of needs. The population in the blue zones is waiting for an improvement in the quality of life to meet their needs. The population in the yellow zones wants to move to the blue ones, as they believe that the current lifestyle is harmful to them, and they have where to retreat.
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Much of the population of the Yellow Zones doesn't want to move; they want things to get better right where they are, and have proven willing to fight for GDI, or at least to passively participate in GDI's economic activities while helping their neighbors fight for GDI, if we can help them.

By isolating information, I say that it is possible to remove the discontent of the population. The populations of the blue zones remember the Third War, from which they only recently began to recover. They will be afraid of the return of the catastrophe from which they only recently managed to get out. And they will be happy to cut costs so that we can muster large troops, so that the war does not affect them, limiting ourselves to only blue zones.

Likewise, the yellow zones believe they have somewhere to retreat. We can cut off this information. Let them believe that the rate of growth of Tiberium is increasing. That over the next few years, several blue zones will be lost. That they simply have nowhere to evacuate, that there simply won't be any blue zones. As a result, our walled cities are arguably the safest place in the world to fight for.

We can reduce resource consumption and use it to strengthen the armed forces by rationing food, water and electricity.

But if km said that it was impossible, then I would only agree with that.
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Well yes, because the entire scheme is fundamentally stupid. It is not possible to create, rapidly, out of nothingness, this ironclad division of Blue and Yellow Zones as if there was a magical forcefield stopping any information from passing between them, even as our armies and mining expeditions and so on pass back and forth between them freely. Yellow and Blue Zone citizens are already exchanging information. Trying to suddenly create a new 'official truth' that involves lying to the populations of either set of Zones, let alone BOTH sets of Zones, is a recipe for disaster and humiliation on our part.
 
Plan Name: Finishing Up Where We Left Off

Infrastructure (5 dice) 80
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1), 4 dice (60 Resources)
-[] Fiber-Optic Expansion, 1 die (20 Resources)

Heavy Industry (5 dice +1 free) 70
-[] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[] Fusion Power Prototype, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[] Heavy Rolling Stock Plants 2 die (20 Resources)
-[] Security Reviews 1 die

Light and Chemical Industry (3 dice) 35
-[] Furniture Factories 0/150 2 dice (20R)
-[] Personal Pharmaceuticals Plants 0/180 (15R)

Agriculture (3 dice) 50
-[] Vertical Farming projects, 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 die 20R

Tiberium (5 dice) 45
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 2), 3 dice (45 Resources)

Military (5 dice + 4 Free) 140R
-[] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-6 North), 3 dice (60 Resources)
-[] Reclaimator Hubs (RZ-6 South), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[] Valparaiso Apollo Fighter Factory, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 3), 2 die (20 Resources)
-[] Toronto Apollo Fighter Factory, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[] Ablat Plating Development 0/70 1 die (10 Resources)

Orbital (3 dice) 45
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 2), 1 die (1 Fusion) (10 Resources)
-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 1), 1 die (1 Fusion) (20 Resources)

Services (4 dice) 30
-[] Childcare and Preschool programs, 2 dice (10 Resources)
-[] Arts and Culture Grants, 1 die (10 Resources)
-[] Ethnic Restaurant Program 0/150 1 die (10 Resources)

Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[] Security Reviews (Heavy Industry), 3 dice

495/500

My plan is straight forward. All those niggly stuff we've half done? We finish them. Plus, we don't eat that big an energy deficit. Also, we've put people in houses with no furniture. At least give them some cupboards.
 
[X] Plan Superconductor Fusion and Communication Culture Version
[X] Plan Gimme the Fruit

Am fine with either. Plenty of spending on military. some good industry stuff that I can see. Should be fine.
 
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[X] Plan Philadelphia and Chicago
Infrastructure (5 dice) 45R
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1), 140/450 3 dice (45 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice +2 Free) 50R
-[X] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2), 3 dice 30R 99%
-[X] Blue Zone Microgeneration Program (Phase 2) 1 die 5R 65%
-[X] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 2) 101/275 3 dice 15R 77%
Light and Chemical Industry (3 dice) 70R
-[X] Bulk Plastics Facilities 1 dice 10R
-[X] Superconductor Foundries 2 dice 60R
Agriculture (3 dice) 50R
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays, 1 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Entari Development 0/40 1 die 20R 88
-[X] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 die 20R 88
Tiberium (5 dice) 85R
-[X] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 2), 3 dice 45R 99%
-[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1+2) 0/220 2 Dice 40R
Orbital (3 dice) 55R
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 1), 2 dice 40R+ 88%
-[X] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2), 1 dice 15 R 96%
Services (4 dice) 20R
-[X] Childcare and Preschool programs, 2 dice 10R 25%
-[X] Game Development Studios 2 dice 10R
Military (5 dice +3 Free) 125R
-[X] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-6 North), 3 dice 60R 45%
-[X] Reclaimator Hubs (RZ-6 South), 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Toronto Apollo Fighter Factory, 1 die 15R 58%
-[X] Shell plants, 35/150 2 dice 20R 72%
-[X] Copenhagen Hydrofoil Shipyard, 1 die 10R 28%
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Security Reviews (Infrastructure), 3 dice



500/500

Chicago is in a narrow yellow zone and on the great lakes allowing shipping to the west coast cities while also being near the north American red zone.
There is a lot of power production in here and the Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension will also help increase the amount of yellow zone voters.
Philadelphia II gets two dice giving us PS for phase 1 and we get to know what phase two will bring us.
Orbital Cleanup (Phase 1) reduced the progress needed for orbital communications so finishing the nearly done second phase before starting communications is more efficient.
3 military factories as we only have enough planes to cover the blue zones, no reserve of shells and our ships are suffering form piracy.
Agriculture does the development needed to unlock large scale farms for the first results of our novel crop labs.
It will give us a way to boost the military in agriculture as we start to move some free dice to consumer good production closer to the elections.

Simon_Jester said:
1) No resources for fusion power prototyping.
2) No work on fiber optics or orbital communications, both things we really want done before the next election in order to increase voter participation. I get why you expect finishing more cleanup to be more efficient but there's still fiber optics.
3) No work done towards completing the Vertical Farming project that was half-begun last turn.
4) As discussed above, I'd love it if you could pry loose another 5 Resources to activate the fourth Services die and throw it at Childcare. We're almost as good at Services as we are at Tiberium, so leaving a Services die unactivated for lack of resources is almost as counterproductive as leaving a Tiberium die unrolled.
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1: But a lot of other sources of power: Blue Zone Microgeneration Program (Phase 2), Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 2), and Superconductor Foundries
With those three the fusion prototype can wait a turn.
2: With the Chicago planned city I am adding a new region under our control so I want housing in case that starts a new refugee wave.
3: I am using a lot of power so I am waiting a turn so all of the power options are complete before I go on with vertical farms

[X] Plan Philadelphia and Superconductor
Infrastructure (5 dice) 45R
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1), 140/450 3 dice (45 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice +2 Free) 50R
-[X] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2), 3 dice 30R 99%
-[X] Blue Zone Microgeneration Program (Phase 2) 1 die 5R 65%
-[X] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 2) 101/275 3 dice 15R 77%
Light and Chemical Industry (3 dice) 70R
-[X] Bulk Plastics Facilities 1 dice 10R
-[X] Superconductor Foundries 2 dice 60R
Agriculture (3 dice) 50R
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays, 1 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Entari Development 0/40 1 die 20R 88
-[X] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 die 20R 88
Tiberium (5 dice) 75R
-[X] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 2), 5 dice 75R 99%
Orbital (3 dice) 55R
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 1), 2 dice 40R+ 88%
-[X] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2), 1 dice 15 R 96%
Services (4 dice) 30R
-[X] Childcare and Preschool programs, 2 dice 10R 25%
-[X] Arts and Culture Grants 1 dice 10R
-[X] Ethnic Restaurant Program 1 dice 10R
Military (5 dice +3 Free) 125R
-[X] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-6 North), 3 dice 60R 45%
-[X] Reclaimator Hubs (RZ-6 South), 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Toronto Apollo Fighter Factory, 1 die 15R 58%
-[X] Shell plants, 35/150 2 dice 20R 72%
-[X] Copenhagen Hydrofoil Shipyard, 1 die 10R 28%
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Security Reviews (Infrastructure), 3 dice
 
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Ithillid said:
You are distinctly wrong about the serious of the situation. The war has entered into a low intensity stage, but every day there are conflicts. It is Iraq or Afghanistan every day for the last fifty years. Things do not require the full force of GDI's military and economic might to be brought to bear against a military threat, but at the same time you are still fighting a war.
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At the moment, maybe. I just think that NOD is preparing something large-scale. Something comparable to the third war. This is the result of my expectation of such a development of events, since the quest is the same work of art. And in any case, we need a growth of problems that forces us to respond to it. Whether it's problems with NOD or tiberium. And for this we need resources, be they human or material. And therefore, I believe that by fanning the red and black anxiety, we will be able to more effectively control what is happening.

And that's why I propose population control, remembering that in the first part, both sides used meme agents.

However, you are the leader of the quest, you certainly know better. This is the impression I got from reading the quest. They may be wrong, and I do not claim to be true.
 
[X] Plan Philadelphia and Chicago
[X] Plan Superconductor Fusion and Communication
 
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sunrise said:
-[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 1+2) 0/220 2 Dice 40R
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We can't afford to spread the military any thinner than it already is. Chicago plants 4 workforce of population in a new city and puts another burden on our already overstretched forces.

We want it eventually for its abatement, but it's something that'll be waiting for another year while we go through the military build-up. Right now it's asking too much from our soldiers to guard yet another high priority target away from the bulk of friendly territory.
 
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[X] Plan Gimme the Fruit

There's a very real chance that we square away one of our plan military commitments this turn... that's pretty good going.
 
[X] Plan Philadelphia and Chicago

Much better to start on the Tiberium abatement focused city earlier than later.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Plan Gimme the Fruit
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The first thing I notice about this plan is the power use vs production:
produced is: 16+2 = 18
Used:
Shell Plants:2, Copenhagen Hydrofoil Shipyard: 6 two Apollo Fighter Factories: 8 Vertical Farming projects 2 =18
This will leave us with 0 energy at the start of the next turn, resulting in us needing to complete one or more energy projects
Work is done on both Blue Zone Arcologies and Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors both requiring energy that will not be there.
-[] Copenhagen Hydrofoil Shipyard, 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 3), 1 die (10 Resources)
I would go for 2 dice on shells and one on Copenhagen. If Copenhagen rolls high we only get a slightly better harbor but if we do it the other way round we get closer to shell plants phase 4 if it has 2 dice that roll high.
And with our ammo dumps empty of shells I would give those a higher priority than getting the shipyard done this turn.
 
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