Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Redhead222 · Jun 29, 2021

[X] Plan Carter's Terrible "One With Everything" plan
f it sounds like a plan

Ultranumb · Jun 29, 2021

NOD is just trying to protect the environment though and prevent over harvesting of tiberium.

I don't get why GDI is being so evil, harvesting everything in sight

#greenearth #NODGood

armentho · Jun 29, 2021

trooperist said:
point out how Dr. Granger's programs are slowly ruining GDI and run exposes about how the treasury secretly runs orphan grinding machines they use to worship their Dark and Terrible Gods from beyond the Outer Realms of reality.

Dammit alex jones grandson

But at least he is too crazy to join nod

Hazard · Jun 29, 2021

armentho said:
Dammit alex jones grandson

But at least he is too crazy to join nod

Doesn't mean he's not a useful idiot.

Mordred · Jun 29, 2021

armentho said:
Dammit alex jones grandson

But at least he is too crazy to join nod

Of course not Nod is obviously a puppet of the lizard men who are fighting the Illuminati who control GDI. Tiberium is obviously a ploy by the little grey men with their puppets the so called Scrim who are actually the results of the alien experiments on the abductees. They're all fighting over this secret wish granting machine called the Tacticus, it all makes perfect sense and anybody who disagrees is obviously a gay, Satanist, mutie who should be put down before infects the rest of us. 😉

armentho · Jun 29, 2021

Pertuarbo101 said:
Of course not Nod is obviously a puppet of the lizard men who are fighting the Illuminati who control GDI. Tiberium is obviously a ploy by the little grey men with their puppets the so called Scrim who are actually the results of the abductees. They're all fighting over this secret wish granting machine called the Tacticus, it all makes perfect sense and anybody who disagrees is obviously a gay tiberium mutie who should be put down before infects the rest of us. 😉

at least 1 of the elements of that fever dream rant could happen in the crazy universe of c&c tiberium wars
(tacticus supermech when?)

Absoloot · Jun 29, 2021

With regards to the level of abstraction, I agree that this thing with the media is below ours; on the flipside our discussion on the issues we perceive or imagine can shape how Ilithid decides to narrate certain sections, or describe in the chapter the org chart that exists below our abstraction. So it's not entirely pointless IMO, though I will say it's absolutely not worth getting into a heated debate over.

I was really just spitballing how, in theory, you'd implement a media system with as little bias as possible. It's probably the single most important factor to the success of democracy outside of corruption IMO so not meaningless.

Generally this quest is super nice to us the players. If this was Blackstar quest I'd totally expect the guy that wound up managing the media grants is a FMP plant and we have a massive propoganda problem in 2 years that we have to manage, and can't easily fire the guy without political pushback or something.

Ithillid · Jun 29, 2021

Absoloot said:
on the flipside our discussion on the issues we perceive or imagine can shape how Ilithid decides to narrate certain sections, or describe the org chart in the chapter that exists below our abstraction. So it's not entirely pointless IMO, though I will say it's absolutely not worth getting into a heated debate over.

This. Getting into discussion, trying to figure out how it might work, and the like, having engagement with a topic, means that I will generally try to put more in that area. Because it is something that people care about and so I want to do more emphasis there.

Zanfib · Jun 29, 2021

@Ithillid

The Yellow Zone Arcologies have changed from "deeply unpopular among Hawks" to just "unpopular among Hawks".

Is that intentional?

trooperist · Jun 30, 2021

Does GDI's various agriculture programs include growing spices? There's a lot of focus on food with good calorie content but not a lot on taste, though that's changing. You can do a lot with just some basic ground black pepper or some chilies so spicy food can make a comeback.

Then again, perhaps various spices are included under various consumer goods in the projects.

Theunderbolt · Jun 30, 2021

Zanfib said:
@Ithillid

The Yellow Zone Arcologies have changed from "deeply unpopular among Hawks" to just "unpopular among Hawks".

Is that intentional?

Could be the Shell issue tapering off now thatvwe have the plant going.

Lightwhispers · Jun 30, 2021

Zanfib said:
@Ithillid

The Yellow Zone Arcologies have changed from "deeply unpopular among Hawks" to just "unpopular among Hawks".

Is that intentional?

I'm pretty sure it is - the Hawks are developing a split between factions which favor a return to the old "Blue Zone Only" policies, and the ones which just want the Treasury to throw cash at the military. (I'm cool with the second, since the military does do nice things like blow up NOD.)

trooperist said:
Does GDI's various agriculture programs include growing spices? There's a lot of focus on food with good calorie content but not a lot on taste, though that's changing. You can do a lot with just some basic ground black pepper or some chilies so spicy food can make a comeback.

Then again, perhaps various spices are included under various consumer goods in the projects.

I believe so, although they are rare - there was a Luxury Aquaponics project to increase our capacity for that, among other luxury foods.

Ithillid · Jun 30, 2021

trooperist said:
Then again, perhaps various spices are included under various consumer goods in the projects.

spices are generally considered a consumer good.

Pyro Hawk · Jun 30, 2021

Lightwhispers said:
I'm pretty sure it is - the Hawks are developing a split between factions which favor a return to the old "Blue Zone Only" policies, and the ones which just want the Treasury to throw cash at the military. (I'm cool with the second, since the military does do nice things like blow up NOD.)

Wouldn't be surprised if it's also a benefit from Fortress Towns. Because the further we develop those, the more protected the Arcology locations can become. Thus reducing how much of a risk they are to Nod raids.

Simon_Jester · Jun 30, 2021

Chimeraguard said:
Infra continues steadily making BZ Arcologies, enough to make progress, but not enough to finish. But we'll have the first phase done before election time, and that'll be another 4 Consumer Goods and half of the Socialist Party's demands met.

I'd really like to get fiber optics done.That also contributes significant consumer goods, and gives us more slack in the Logistics system.

HI is BZ Power Production with 3 dice, 2 dice on Fusion Power Prototype because we need to start to work on Fusion for when Fission starts becoming uneconomical from the lack of fissionables. And one die on BZ Microgeneration (subject to possibly being swapped out if needed.) Next turn I plan to push for YZ Power Grid and more BZ Power Production. Not Rolling Stock because it's too much of a power hog right now.

I would like to advocate for something other than Blue Zone Microgeneration, unless it becomes a +Energy option in its own right. The resources don't cost much, but they add up and dice are short too in their way. Among other things I don't want the Heavy Rolling Stock option to languish half-finished indefinitely, even if it has to languish for a single turn. I think it's still at 111/250 or something; we could put a die on it without risk of completion.

Instead, I'm relying on LCI to get the necessary capital goods. One die on Chemical Precursors (we can slow-roll it out since we don't need the Capital Goods immediately, just when the Industry finishes), two dice on Yellow Zone Industry, and 1 die for Security Reviews, since we're about to start investing heavily into LCI and we want to make sure it's clean.

The problem is that we need bunches of capital goods, not just small amounts trickled in here and there...

Agriculture, we finish Vertical Farming for Food and Consumer Goods, then Perennials since getting the kinds of foods it grows feels like the thing that'd unlock some Consumer Good options, plus I think it's been mentioned that there may be narrative effects behind it.

Okay now that is a good idea.

Services has 2 dice on Scrintech so we can get that research and juicy technology relatively early, 2 dice on Childcare to finish up the last of our education obligations. May give up one die on Scrintech if we need the resources elsewhere, but I really want to go heavy on the research. If there's any techline that might come up with more ways to slow down, or at least exploit Tiberium, it'd be the Scrin.

I'm shaky on two dice on Scrintech right now because the budget's still a bit tight, but I do approve of researching it in general.

Pertuarbo101 said:
Of course not Nod is obviously a puppet of the lizard men who are fighting the Illuminati who control GDI. Tiberium is obviously a ploy by the little grey men with their puppets the so called Scrim who are actually the results of the alien experiments on the abductees. They're all fighting over this secret wish granting machine called the Tacticus, it all makes perfect sense and anybody who disagrees is obviously a gay, Satanist, mutie who should be put down before infects the rest of us. 😉

A Forgotten with a rainbow armband on one arm, a red armband on the other, and a very mean grin shows up at the door, knocking forcefully.

"Yeah. About that."

[cracks knuckles]

sunrise · Jun 30, 2021

I decided to compare what it will take to build the blue vs the yellow Light Industrial Sectors

Ithillid said:
[ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors
With Yellow Zone cities now in full development, and the capital goods crisis almost in hand, GDI can now begin looking towards developing a full suite of light industrial developments in the Terminus Cities. While this will cost substantial amounts of capital goods as GDI builds all new factory complexes, for everything from toys and toothbrushes to perfume, it will substantially increase employment in the Yellow Zones, making the yellow zones more obviously mutually beneficial with the blue zones.
(Progress 0/400: 10 Resources per die) (++++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy, -- Capital Goods, --- Labor)

[ ] Blue Zone Light Industrial Sectors
With GDI needing ever more in the way of light industrial products, and Blue Zone reconstruction effectively complete, large sections of many of the cities have been cleared for future development. While industry is not necessarily the most efficient use, it will have substantial impacts on the supply of various consumer goods.
(Progress 0/350: 10 Resources per die) (++++ Consumer Goods, -- Energy, - Capital Goods, --- Labor)

At first glance its 50 progress and 1 Capital Goods, so only a minor difference but we have the one Capital Goods needed for blue but not the two for the yellow

Ithillid said:
[ ] Chemical Precursor Plants
While Tiberium and greenhouses can provide many of the chemicals needed for both day to day living and industrial needs, there are many chemicals, such as ethylene, propylene, nitric acid, sulphuric acid, hydrogen peroxide, and a wide selection of others that are important in everything from body armor to storage vessels, to medication. By building large chemical plants around the world, many of these can be produced and shipped more cheaply than doing small scale production on site.
(Progress 36/200: 15 resources per die) (++ Capital Goods, -- Energy)

As all HI dice will be busy producing power for at least two more turns this is where the capital goods will come form this will take between two and three dice at 15R each.
But the Chemical Precursor Plants need 2 Energy so we need to build:

[ ] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 2)
With the Terminus Cities now having reliable sources of power, local generation is the next major step. While the situation is far from secure enough to allow for sizable nuclear development, and all of the rivers are too contaminated to allow for development of hydro power. This means that the available power solutions are local solar and wind plants. While these plants are at this time surplus to requirements, they will future proof and disaster proof the terminus cities, and most proposed developments. (Progress 101/275 : 5 resources per die) (++ Energy)
And that are two to three HI dice and 10-15R more.

So the blue zone will cost:
4-6 LCI dice at 10R = 40-60R
Yellow
5-6 LCI dice at 10R = 40-60R
2-3 LCS dice at 15R = 30-45R
2-3 HI dice at 5R = 10-15R
Total expected cost= 7-9 LCI dice, 2-3 HI Dice and between 80R and 120R

Void Stalker · Jun 30, 2021

Yellow Zone Light Industry is also a plan requirement and a way to improve ties between YZ and BZ and a way to improve GDI standing in the YZ which will help with the upcoming election. It is more than just raw stats making this decision. Also Rolling Stock plants next turn since it also provides some badly needed logistics.

Simon_Jester · Jun 30, 2021

Yeah. Getting Yellow Zone Light Industry done before the election would be a major feather in our cap. It might also reduce how angry the Hawks get when we build Yellow Zone arcologies, which we'll realistically have to to complete our promise to the Socialists.

EDIT:

On the other hand, relentlessly maximizing for consumer goods output in the first half of the plan isn't such a bad idea either, and if we're relentlessly maximizing, then we want the Blue Zone light industrial zones, because that way, as @sunrise points out, we won't need to spend as many dice on supporting projects.

BOTcommander · Jun 30, 2021

Calling CQ vote her

[X] Plan Carter's Terrible "One With Everything" plan
-[X]Infrastructure (3 Dice): +35 (AD cost: 2C) -14 personnel, -17, +1 power 434C
--[X][Carter]SCED Base Administrative Building
---[X]Modern 0/600 (3C/Die) (Power -2, Personnel -1) 9 AD 45C 97.58%
--[X][Carter]SCED Base Part Production Plant Shell
---[X]Modern 0/350 (3C/Die) (Power-, Personnel -) 3 dice + 3 AD 24C 99.1%
--[X][Carter]SCED Base Assembly Plant Shell
---[X]Modern 0/300 (3C/Die) (Power-, Personnel -) 5 AD 25C 97.75%
--[X][Carter]Supercomputer Complex Stage 1/5 0/185 (4C/Die) (Power-, Personnel -) 9 AD 54C 99.43% for 3 stages if all the same progress
--[X][Carter]Expanded Power Production 120/150 5/5C (1C/Die) 1 AD 3C 100%
--[X][Carter]Anchorage Site Staff Accommodations
---[X]Modern 0/600 (3C/Die) 9 AD 45C (Power -3, Personnel -3) 97.58%
--[X][Carter]SCED Base Automated Assembly Line Shell
---[X]Modern 0/300 (3C/Die) ( Power-, Personnel -) 5 AD 25C 97.75%
--[X][Carter]SCED Base Mission Control
---[X]Modern 0/300 (3C/Die) (Power--, Personnel -) 5 AD 25C 97.75%
--[X][Carter]SCED Base Staff Accommodations
---[X]Maximum 0/600 (3C/Die) (Power -3, Personnel -3) 9 AD 45C 97.58%
--[X][Carter]Anchorage Environmental Testing Facilities 0/85 0/5C (1AP + 3C/Die) 35C 2 AD (Power -) 99.09%
--[X][Carter]Anchorage Variable-G Laboratories 0/485 0/5C (1AP or 10C/Die + 1C/Die) 7AD 91C (Power --) 93%
--[X][Carter]Anchorage Biohazard Laboratories 0/85 0/5C (4C/Die) 2 AD 17C 99.09%
-[X]Tiberium (3 Dice): +10 (AD cost: 5C) -5 Personnel -1 Power -1 Office Space 65C
--[X][Carter]SCED Base Tiberium Spikes 0/200 ( 4C/Die + 2C/Die) (Raw Resources ++, Personnel -, Power -) 3 dice + 1 AD 29C 76.18%
--[X][Carter]Harper Tiberium Perimeter Teams Stage 1 0/300 (4C/Die) (Personnel ---, Office Space -) 6 AD 36C 81.08%
-[X] Industry (3 Dice): +10 (AD cost: 4C) -3 Personnel, -5 Power, 546C
--[X][Carter]Anchorage Production Laboratory 0/285 0/5C (4C/Die) (Power -) 3 dice 3 AD 29C 86.28%
--[X][Carter]Anchorage Materials Laboratories 0/185 0/5C (3C/Die) (Power -) 4 AD 33C 83.26%
--[X][Carter]Anchorage Chemical Laboratories 0/285 0/5C (4C/Die) (Power -) 6 AD 53C 86.28%
--[X][Carter]Part Fabrication Plant Upgrade Stage 5/5 84/125 (3C/Die) (Power -, Personnel -- ) 1 AD 7C 70%
--[X][Carter]Chemical Plant Stage 2/2 33/200 (3C/Die + 1C/Die) ( Personnel -, Power - )3 AD 24C 61.14%
--[X] Satellite Factory 0/1250 0/50C (5C/Die, only Auxiliary Dice) 24 AD 266C 92.35%
--[X] [Carter]SCED Base Civilian Power Connections 0/100 (3C/Die) 2 AD 14C 69.19%
--[X][Carter]Second Thorium Nuclear Plant 0/500 (5C/Die + 1C/Die) 12 AD 120C (Personnel-) 98.89%
-[X] Assembly (3 Dice): +5 (AD cost: 7C) (Progress limited by assigned Parts)
--[X][Carter]Leopard Class Transport 353/425 20/20 AP 3 dice 97.23
-[X] Development (2 Dice)] +7 3 AP 235C
--[X][Carter]Basic Drive Module Development 2/2 AP 59/100 (5C/Die) 1 dice 5C 67%
--[X][Carter]Leopard Modification Development 0/400 0/10AP 0/10C 8AP 60C for 6AP 70C total 6 dice 22.52%
--[X][Carter]Heavy Space Suit Experiments 0/5C 0/3 AP 0/250 5C/turn 3AP 5C + 5C/Turn
--[X][Carter]Plasma Torch Drive Experiments 0/450 0/5 AP 0/20C 5C/turn 70C + 5C/Turn
--[X][Carter]Fusion Drive Experiments 0/450 0/5 AP 0/20C 5C/turn 70C + 5C/Turn
-[X] Space Command Mission Planning (5/6 Dice) +5 6C
--[X]Launch Herschel-Luna 6C (no die required)
--[X][Carter]Earth Orbit Long Range Comsat Network 0/100 2 dice 60.84%
--[X][Carter]Lunar Commsat Network 0/100 2 dice 60.84%
--[X][Carter]Mission: Unmanned Orbiter Phobos 0/50 1 die 56%
-[X] Bureaucracy (5 Dice): +6 20C
--[X][Carter]Staff Hire (10)C (Requires one Die) 10C
--[X][Carter]Staff Hire (10)C (Requires one Die) 10C
--[X][Carter]Expand Bureaucratic Staff 5/5C 31/50 1 die 88%
--[X][Carter]Expand RnD Staff 5/5C 127/150 1 die 84%
--[X][Carter]Reach out to the Universities 68/100 1 die 75%

1306/1665C
3AP/7AP

cageorks · Jun 30, 2021

what the hells wrong with the dice lately lol

Void Stalker · Jun 30, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
Yeah. Getting Yellow Zone Light Industry done before the election would be a major feather in our cap. It might also reduce how angry the Hawks get when we build Yellow Zone arcologies, which we'll realistically have to to complete our promise to the Socialists.

EDIT:

On the other hand, relentlessly maximizing for consumer goods output in the first half of the plan isn't such a bad idea either, and if we're relentlessly maximizing, then we want the Blue Zone light industrial zones, because that way, as @sunrise points out, we won't need to spend as many dice on supporting projects.

Looks at the service and agri projects we have done and will continue to do. Plus cons goods from stuff like Fiber Optics next turn and BZ arcologies (if space takes less R or in Q2). We have a lot of Cons Good across 4 categories right now so we will be pushing that. And I think we can get both YZ and BZ light industry finished before the end of the coming year (and I think elections are at the end of the coming year)

Simon_Jester · Jun 30, 2021

Void Stalker said:
Looks at the service and agri projects we have done and will continue to do. Plus cons goods from stuff like Fiber Optics next turn and BZ arcologies (if space takes less R or in Q2). We have a lot of Cons Good across 4 categories right now so we will be pushing that. And I think we can get both YZ and BZ light industry finished before the end of the coming year (and I think elections are at the end of the coming year)

Personally I think it's a bit optimistic to expect to have both sets of zones by the end of 2055, but I haven't really crunched the numbers. My main point was that in principle, doing the Blue Zone version of the industrial target might free up enough dice for us to do another additional consumer goods project of some kind- but I'm not really sweating the details here, I could be wrong. Just something to at least consider.

Redhead222 · Jun 30, 2021

Nat 1 on sat factory of course.

Void Stalker · Jun 30, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
Personally I think it's a bit optimistic to expect to have both sets of zones by the end of 2055, but I haven't really crunched the numbers. My main point was that in principle, doing the Blue Zone version of the industrial target might free up enough dice for us to do another additional consumer goods project of some kind- but I'm not really sweating the details here, I could be wrong. Just something to at least consider.

Light Industrial sectors at +8 are tied for the best with VR arcade (services) and Ranching (agri) with the rest of the cons good being +4 or lower and are a way to get people employed and for that matter the YZ Light mentions: from toys and toothbrushes to perfume, it will substantially increase employment in the Yellow Zones, making the yellow zones more obviously mutually beneficial with the blue zones.

And as mentioned we have Cons Good projects in Infra (Fiber optics and BZ arcologies), Agri, and 2 service project (and we have already done several cons good from service already) so we can still push cons good overall.

Math wise we are looking at 7-8 for YZ and 6-7 for BZ so 15 on the high end which is 5 quarters or 4 quarters and 3 free dice (dependent on rolls) so quite doable and would be a major feather in our cap to get both online by end of the year.

Derpmind · Jun 30, 2021

@BOTcommander I don't normally look at the mechanics of Carterquest much, but... I just counted over 140 dice. That is way too many dice. You might want to cut back on how many actions and dice you're using, by like, a ton.

Simon_Jester said:
On the other hand, relentlessly maximizing for consumer goods output in the first half of the plan isn't such a bad idea either, and if we're relentlessly maximizing, then we want the Blue Zone light industrial zones, because that way, as @sunrise points out, we won't need to spend as many dice on supporting projects.

Maximising consumer goods leading up to the election is an inherently political action, and if we're doing that we might as well make sure to do Yellow Zone light industry first since it'll look way better politically than doing BZ industry first. The lack of maximal efficiency is made up for by far by the optics of supporting the Yellow Zones.

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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