Personally, I think it just shows how much people underestimate the Salerians, both their intelligence and their ruthlessness. I blame a decade of people reading fanfic where the citadel exists mostly to get dunked on.

It's funny really. People still panic whenever building a new phase of Liquid Tiberium Power because Nod might blow it up with a catalyst missile, but an extremely advanced civilization that's been space faring for thousands of years? That is known for their capabilities in spycraft and subterfuge? Naaaah, no waaaay they could ever steal enough Tiberium to study in a useful manner, let alone enough for it to begin replicating and allow them as much as they could ever want or need.

It's a very tiresome attitude to see endlessly bannied about.
 
Personally, I think it just shows how much people underestimate the Salerians, both their intelligence and their ruthlessness. I blame a decade of people reading fanfic where the citadel exists mostly to get dunked on.

It's funny really. People still panic whenever building a new phase of Liquid Tiberium Power because Nod might blow it up with a catalyst missile, but an extremely advanced civilization that's been space faring for thousands of years? That is known for their capabilities in spycraft and subterfuge? Naaaah, no waaaay they could ever steal enough Tiberium to study in a useful manner, let alone enough for it to begin replicating and allow them as much as they could ever want or need.

It's a very tiresome attitude to see endlessly bannied about.
And you seem to be underestimating GDIs commitment to tiberium containment and that there is going to be trouble just trusting aliens in the first place after what kain and the visitors did so they are sure as hell going to be shot if they get close to Mercury at all which GDI will hope and try to be the only place they have actual tiberium.
 
Personally, I think it just shows how much people underestimate the Salerians, both their intelligence and their ruthlessness. I blame a decade of people reading fanfic where the citadel exists mostly to get dunked on.

It's funny really. People still panic whenever building a new phase of Liquid Tiberium Power because Nod might blow it up with a catalyst missile, but an extremely advanced civilization that's been space faring for thousands of years? That is known for their capabilities in spycraft and subterfuge? Naaaah, no waaaay they could ever steal enough Tiberium to study in a useful manner, let alone enough for it to begin replicating and allow them as much as they could ever want or need.

It's a very tiresome attitude to see endlessly bannied about.
It's not a matter of competence it's a matter of circumstance.

Stealth in space is far more difficult than stealth on the ground, especially since one of Nod's main methods of infiltrating GDI is by pretending to be refugees, etc and just walking into GDI territory. That's not exactly something that'll work for the STG.

Thinking that GDI can keep control over enteance and exits to 2 planets in 1 system, their home system, isn't underestimating the STG. It's just accepting that them trying to get to Venus or Earth is basically an agent's worst nightmare, regardless of competence
 
Last edited:
I figure at some point NOD will get their own off-planet operations and one of their seeded asteroids will end up with the STG for interesting analysis.
 
Just guard the mass relay?
1 way in, 1 way out. (with ME FTL)
I mean, technically they can still slowboat it with 'regular' FTL but yeah, the Sol system is likely to be one of if not the most heavily fortified systems in citadel/cotadel adjacent space.

I figure at some point NOD will get their own off-planet operations and one of their seeded asteroids will end up with the STG for interesting analysis.

It's technically possible sure but it still very much runs into the problem of 'How do you sneak tiberium off earth when GDI controls the orbitals and absolutely will stop and search (or just blow up) any vessel that isn't coming from a GDI facility'
 
Last edited:
It's less that we think that the STGs can't get to tiberium despite our best efforts, it's that actually getting tiberium is very hard, and that is before you consider that if the STGs do get their hands in tiberium... what makes you think they'll actually manage to keep it contained in a lab?

Especially since the salarians? They love wet, humid, verdant worlds, exactly the sort of world that is most vulnerable to tiberium due to the massive biosphere.
 
I'd be surprised if the Citadel races hadn't encountered the Visitors/Tiberium already. It is hardly isolated to Earth.
In all fairness, if Visitors/Tiberium aren't on the mass relay network, there's a good chance the Citadel is unaware. Of course, Earth is technically on the relay network, so theoretically it might not have been the first time that's happened and thus the Citadel might be aware. ...I do have to wonder if the relay being encased and shut down might have caused the Visitors to not realize it was there if they were consciously trying to avoid the relay network.
 
I'd be surprised if the Citadel races hadn't encountered the Visitors/Tiberium already. It is hardly isolated to Earth.
It would be very anticlimactic if they just had access to it, because then it just under cuts a lot of reasons why a crossover between C&C and Mass effect would be fun, like it would be if you had a aliens crossover with a different franchise but just made them have xenomorphs beforehand as well like then what's the point of a crossover at all then?
 
Last edited:
It would be very anticlimactic if they just had access to it, because then it just under cuts a lot of reasons why a crossover between C&C and Mass effect would be fun, like it would be if you had a aliens crossover with a different franchise but just made them have xenomorphs beforehand as well like then what's the point of a crossover at all then?
In what way is GDI from the C&C universe finding Eezo and a mass relay from the Mass Effect universe not going to be fun?
It doesn't need the Citadel races to learn about Tiberium from Earth to be fun, as that just gives the Citadel races 'fun'. We want to be having the fun, not them.
 
I'd be surprised if the Citadel races hadn't encountered the Visitors/Tiberium already. It is hardly isolated to Earth.
Honestly that would be utterly surprising, as Citadel space is actually really small, like a fraction of a fraction a percent of the galaxy, and haven't explored that much more of it. The whole near total ban of exploration since the Ranchi wars kinda killed their ability to ever discover things like Tiberium.

That and the Citadel just has delusions of Grandeur about how far it's authority extends. And more importantly how powerful it is, so they probably would have killed themselves exporting early stage Tib to every colony they have, as the Salarians would think they could control it and the Asari would deny there's a problem to keep political control.
 
Honestly that would be utterly surprising, as Citadel space is actually really small, like a fraction of a fraction a percent of the galaxy, and haven't explored that much more of it. The whole near total ban of exploration since the Ranchi wars kinda killed their ability to ever discover things like Tiberium.

That and the Citadel just has delusions of Grandeur about how far it's authority extends. And more importantly how powerful it is, so they probably would have killed themselves exporting early stage Tib to every colony they have, as the Salarians would think they could control it and the Asari would deny there's a problem to keep political control.
Or it turns out that Tiberium has a nasty reaction to eezo in the wild, so some Asari colony with lots of eezo around sudden ceases to exist as the two energetically interact.
 
In what way is GDI from the C&C universe finding Eezo and a mass relay from the Mass Effect universe not going to be fun?
It doesn't need the Citadel races to learn about Tiberium from Earth to be fun, as that just gives the Citadel races 'fun'. We want to be having the fun, not them.
... I said in that post that them knowing all about tiberium before GDI has meet them would be antichemactic for a few reasons did you not read what I posted?
 
Has it been confirmed that the ME races will still be using a pure-ME tech-base in the sequel? There is at least one alien race with Tiberium knowledge after all, it's not unthinkable the others do as well.

And of course, we can't forget the inevitability of Citadel Councilor Kane mucking with things. :V
 
Personally, I think it just shows how much people underestimate the Salerians, both their intelligence and their ruthlessness. I blame a decade of people reading fanfic where the citadel exists mostly to get dunked on.

It's funny really. People still panic whenever building a new phase of Liquid Tiberium Power because Nod might blow it up with a catalyst missile, but an extremely advanced civilization that's been space faring for thousands of years? That is known for their capabilities in spycraft and subterfuge? Naaaah, no waaaay they could ever steal enough Tiberium to study in a useful manner, let alone enough for it to begin replicating and allow them as much as they could ever want or need.

It's a very tiresome attitude to see endlessly bannied about.
Arguing against strawmen rather than debating with people you disagree with is generally easy so I don't see why you are tired :V Let me argue some points, rather than concede to this nebulous argument that a civilization is inherently better for being around longer, otherwise we'd all be Assyrians, Romans, or Chinese because their age based advantages were insurmountable :V

  1. We know what peak ME stealth tech is, I even gave an example of it if you'd bothered to read- it's good, but it doesn't exist yet and while I'm positive ME3 has featured creeped invisibility onto Salarian special forces, that's not inherently any different than the capabilities GDI is already having to contend with.
  2. We've literally been talking about how insanely devalued any precious material in our economy is thanks to Tiberium. The natural consequence of our distorted economy is that others aren't going to want free trade with such a market for a number of reasons. Trade with the Council is going to be heavily regulated from both sides because the Volus are liable to explode if you ignore the economic instability posed.
  3. There's one way into Sol. It's a giant, enormous tuning fork that makes a colossal *ding* anytime something comes through. You can conventionally FTL in, but that explicitly produces Cherenkov radiation when the ftl field ends (though presumably less the more you decelerate). Cherenkov radiation should be very conspicuous in space.
  4. GDI detection schema have already had to compete against highly advanced and old alien civilizations.
  5. GDI is a panopticon state the likes of which doesn't really have another example in ME. I'm not going to pretend that makes us immune, but we are far more invested in counter espionage than anyone in canon ever was with the exception of the Salarians themselves. I wouldn't say the Salarians have a panopticon of their own because the Dalatrasses are in political competition (and thus by necessity spying on and withholding information from each other).
  6. Earth is already covered in kill-sats intended to fire on anything on the surface or breaking for orbit that they don't like. Most targets the Salarians are trying to infiltrate, presumably don't have guns lined up to fire at their surface because it's usually a poor survival strategy. .
So, we're going to have barriers with the Citadel by necessity, strong choke points that govern all access to the Tiberium, are more hardened than most Salarian targets, and will have a developed detection network using technology the Salarians are unfamiliar with. I don't doubt that the Salarians are going to see extensive success in electronic warfare, that it will be hard for us to actively hide troop/ship movements, and that they'll have some idea of what we're getting up to.

That doesn't correlate to them physically infiltrating Earth or Venus, putting boots on the ground and harvesting a substantial amount of Tiberium and then escaping with no pursuit. That's just ignoring physics, geopolitics, and common sense in favor of a no limits fallacy. That's not how space-based stealth is shown to work in ME, that's ignoring how many space assets GDI has dedicated to creating no fly zones, and the simple paranoia of a state that *has* had to deal with espionage for the sake of the survival of it's species since it's inception. GDI doesn't get to trounce the Salarians at all things espionage, but refusing to acknowledge the Salarians aren't used to dealing with people who had to get good at espionage or be remorselessly nuked is 'tiresome'.

Edit: as for the Council having Tiberium, the Council has only explored a relatively small section of the galaxy (understandable given the Rachni) and I think we have WoG that the Scrin have been hiding from the Reapers. If you're advanced and remote enough to hide from the Reapers over multiple cycles, you are probably advanced enough to hide from the Citadel.

Edit2:
More accurately, it is a form of FTL that is very bloody obvious if anyone is looking, and has the right tools. So if you are trying to hide from people who have the right tools, it is a good idea to not use it.
This is the closest I could find to wog that the Scrin are hiding from Reapers (in describing ME FTL and why you may or may not use it as opposed to being a trap). Conveniently, it also highlights the difficulty in trying to steal our glowing death rocks.
 
Last edited:
Has it been confirmed that the ME races will still be using a pure-ME tech-base in the sequel? There is at least one alien race with Tiberium knowledge after all, it's not unthinkable the others do as well.

And of course, we can't forget the inevitability of Citadel Councilor Kane mucking with things. :V
Not 100% confirmed in the thread but based on Discord musings by the QM (that may or may not change, as with all Discord info) it certainly seems likely that they'll be using ME-tech
 
I think there are some very convincing arguments presented for why the Salarians aren't going to be able to sneak onto Earth and into Tiberium fields. I think the Salarians are going to focus more on trying to sneak Tiberium out in the hands of subverted Terrans, forged transport orders, and the like.
 
It's also worth noting that if the Citadel races had Tib and Tibtech in the sequel then we'd basically be relegated to being an unimportant minor power with no influence for the entire sequelquest due to our hideously low population so for Doylist reasons it's probably a bad idea.

Even with the OOC nature of our techbase we're likely to end up a regional power at best
 
I think there are some very convincing arguments presented for why the Salarians aren't going to be able to sneak onto Earth and into Tiberium fields. I think the Salarians are going to focus more on trying to sneak Tiberium out in the hands of subverted Terrans, forged transport orders, and the like.
That's possible, but I think between increased trade barriers out of necessity, economic separation, the cultural taboo that Tiberium itself is, and the inherent cultural wariness of a society that has been the victim of attempted xenocide it's not going to be easy.

To suborn a human and get them to supply it to you- that human a) needs to be successfully suborned by an agent who needs to find hooks to convince them in the first place b) needs to remain beneath the eyes of the panopticon c) needs to get access to the Tiberium itself (which I imagine even now carries some degree of extensive vetting) d) needs to get the stolen Tiberium out of Sol through limited checkpoints and carefully curated traffic.
 
The thing about Tiberium though is that since it's self-replicating, you don't need to smuggle out a large amount of it. Given a very small sample you can make a field in a matter of years.
 
Back
Top