How could they produce the numbers we do without Tiberian though eezo doesn't sound like a replacement at all for that to make them.

They've been exploiting multiple star systems since before the founding of Rome. We are not beating them on scale.

If Citadel wanted Tiberium, why not go to one of the other planets with Tiberium? There's a whole society of people (Visitors) who use Tiberium, there are actual factual mining operations..

The Visitors intentionally avoid space that the Reapers care about, they screwed up by seeding Earth in the first place.
 
There's a million different ways to get small samples of even the most heavily restricted and dangerous substances, and that's assuming they don't take the two easiest routes. That is buying some, which I'd be shocked if they couldn't come up with at least a tempting offer with all their technology and resources and expertise. Or, force. And they will try everything at least once, because Tiberium is a wonder material that would revolutionize the galaxy. It'd make eezo look cute. That's the sort of thing you pull out all the stops for. They'd be fools not too.
I think the assumption that everyone is going to leap feet first onto Tiberium when they're looking at a dead garden world and billions dead is also a bit premature. The things tiberium offers don't just require getting a hold of it, they require getting ahold of the refining and manufacturing processes among other things. NOD and GDI really have only gotten as far as they have with it as a technological base thanks to Kane, the Tacitus, and the Scrin themselves.

The Salarians probably care far more about preventing the spread of Tiberium to places like the Terminus systems and/or NOD cells proliferating it as terrorism than they do about what it can offer in and of itself. The Citadel unlike any nation or country you or I am familiar with- does not have real competitors it needs to secure advantages over.
 
If the Citadel wants tib, they will get it, sooner or later. Would also be more interesting. We don't need to wank off the power of the GDIs internal security apparatus needlessly, that's just cringe.
 
If the Citadel wants tib, they will get it, sooner or later. Would also be more interesting. We don't need to wank off the power of the GDIs internal security apparatus needlessly, that's just cringe.
If we're emphasizing the Doylistic reasons over the Watsonian based off how cringe it is- I think that just reinforces acquiring tiberium shouldn't be easy (note not impossible).

Narratively, tiberium is always depicted as a poisoned pill as opposed to something like Eezo which is at worst a hazardous material (outside of 'it's a trap!'). It's representative of all the sins of the old world order that fell with it's spread, of the catastrophic damage it's done to Earth and society. It's divided civilization into those who believe it holds some meaning for the hell emerging around them, and those who believe it's the source of the inferno. It twists and warps the world it's parasitizing, the people touched by it, and even the societies who wield it. Even the Scrin are depicted as twisted and bound to Tiberium as they are it's supposed masters- both here and in canon.

Wanting Tiberium to have more narrative weight to it than just a state secret to be hoarded or stolen isn't coming from a place of HFY. It's wanting a major villain to be treated with respect. The narrative role of Tiberium is as much that of the Andromeda strain as it is Eezo. Taking up a sword with no hilt has to come with the expectation of getting cut on it. Reducing it to a technological advantage to be stolen through espionage or touted as a source of HFY obfuscates all the harm its caused and it's role as a catastrophic and destructive force.
 
The narrative role of Tiberium has never been that it has been hard to get ahold of, the series starts with the long term dangers of it unknown, or any warnings unheeded, nationstates and corporations spreading it far and wide for its the value it can provide economically. Who are the Citadel is not another dark mirror of the cultural-economic circumstances that caused the initial spread, the council races are a walled garden, wielding incredible economic and military might on their fingertips with which to keep the relayspace in line. GDI benefits immensely from the Tiberium, a little rumpstate held up by the properties of the exotic material. It would be a disservice to Tiberium to not have it continue to spread its way into the hands of those who seek to try and benefit from it, the Council races seeking another edge in the game of political power or Terminus System powers seeking to prop up their own economies, regardless of the long term consequences. In the days of interstellar space travel, those dangers are much more abstract, who cares if one planet gets made uninhabitable, there are always more, the galaxy endles, a hundred billion stars.

I am the last one to accuse of not respecting Tiberium. I'd argue it would be a disrespect to its source are a villain to twist the narrative into attempting to keep it locked in the solar system, where solely the wise and enlightened GDI can profit from it. Tiberium is not the villain, it is the sympton, the true villain being the folly of those seeking power and money regardless of the consequences.
 
They've been exploiting multiple star systems since before the founding of Rome. We are not beating them on scale.
Not on scale in many senses, but we have a degree of raw industrial output per capita and automation that they'd struggle to match.

The Visitors intentionally avoid space that the Reapers care about, they screwed up by seeding Earth in the first place.
One has to wonder how the Visitors know what spaces the Reapers care about, unless they're intergalactic and "the Milky Way" is a no-go zone for them. And in that case you have to wonder what they were doing around Alpha Centauri four(?) thousand years ago when Kane had Abel-the-ship.
 
One has to wonder how the Visitors know what spaces the Reapers care about, unless they're intergalactic and "the Milky Way" is a no-go zone for them. And in that case you have to wonder what they were doing around Alpha Centauri four(?) thousand years ago when Kane had Abel-the-ship.
You check if any Mass Relays are nearby, the solar system one happened to be buried deep in Plutos moon Charon, easy to miss.
 
I would like people to consider two things regarding the sequelquest and decisions made during it:
First, try to avoid making decisions (or hypothesizing about them) based on metaknowledge.
Second, ask yourself: is this something likely to be determined by the Treasury?

...Well, also a third thing: is this something that Ithillid (who I think we all can agree is a competent writer/worldbuilder) would write into the world of this quest?

As for GDI trying to keep Tiberium to itself, I think that a) people are overthinking it, and b) [REDACTED].
 
You check if any Mass Relays are nearby, the solar system one happened to be buried deep in Plutos moon Charon, easy to miss.
Ah. That might check out, then, if the Visitors normally do serious reconnaissance.

By the way, does anyone know HOW the Charon relay supposedly wound up embedded in Charon? And how deep was it, like "just under the surface, plausibly might have just crashed into it" or "in the core of the moon?"
 
Eh. I'm not feeling the enthusiasm. The canonical First Contact War was a massive misunderstanding, and while you can certainly make a good case that it was a grave slap in the face to a new species reaching out to contact the Council's existing galactic order... in the scheme of things, much worse things have happened between nations.

One of the things that defines Cerberus, for instance, is anger and resentment at the idea of humans not enjoying primacy, or having to tolerate being second best or less respected or less powerful than other species which have spent a millennium or two building up their technology and industrial base. It's a big part of why they're so irrational and prone to 'taco cart' incidents, because they're driven by an all caps desire to MAKE THEM PAY for the universe not catering to their special place in the center of itself.

So I try not to partake too much of similar feelings, either about fiction or real life.

The First Contact War was not caused by a misunderstanding between the Turians and the Humans. It was essentially a failed attempt of the Turians in engaging with an imperialistic activities in order to render the newly encountered species into a client race based on the assessment of being primitive enough and small enough in order to defeat with no issue. Based on the information gained from the Citadel's achieves information. It is partly why the reparations to the Systems Alliance from the Turians was going on for decades, as while it was officially labelled as incident the reality was quite different along with the smear campaign on the humans taking place in canon.

Admittedly the differences between the Systems Alliance and GDI are likely to incur different results due to very differing mentalities, technologies and circumstances behind both of the two entities. Making the occurrence of the same scenario less likely even if GDI encounter the Turians first towards non zero if they encounter any other faction first such as the Salarians, Asari, Quarians, Volus, Krogan or others.

Still regardless of that, tiberium to be honest is likely going to be material which the Citadel are going to be intrigued and horrified off. While it does have numerous applications that would be immensely beneficial for any society, the sheer danger of the material is also staggering, far beyond any other material that exists due to the fact it is essentially a self replicating material that can replicate from the smallest of fragments with other materials, passively emits radiation large amounts of radiation continuously, extremely mutative, adaptive and would sterilize any habitable planet of its ecosystem and life if not treated with absolute caution. In which when considering the presence of the Terminus Systems, Megacorporations, numerous pirates and other parties who would likely not be cautious enough, would be a source of much worry for many of the governments in the galaxy.
 
By the way, does anyone know HOW the Charon relay supposedly wound up embedded in Charon? And how deep was it, like "just under the surface, plausibly might have just crashed into it" or "in the core of the moon?"
You can predict orbital systems with more than two bodies only for so long, there is a famous book series about it, the three body problem. The Reapers might have simply been unable to foresee the Relay eventually crashing into Charon. In canon, Charon is a dust and iceball that formed around the Relay, but that might have been a decision based on outdated scientific information or just "Mass-Effect-writing". Charon has a diameter of 1,212 kilometers, a little bit too much to just be a dust accumalation. I think the current revised theory is that it is just embedded, a few kilometers down.
 
It's fun to imagine GDI having impenetrable security. But a crossover that keeps Tiberium safely in GDI's hands is missing a mountain of narrative potential. Do you want a crossover between GDI and the Citadel, or a crossover between C&C and Mass Effect?
 
Seems to me it doesn't even need to come out of GDI space - I expect it would be easier for spying to get the information that it was seeded by an alien mining operation and realize there's opportunity to search outside the usual range of systems for planets where Tiberium is active. And didn't we unlock a map at one point of some scrin activity? Information would be easier to steal than physical samples for sure
 
It's fun to imagine GDI having impenetrable security. But a crossover that keeps Tiberium safely in GDI's hands is missing a mountain of narrative potential. Do you want a crossover between GDI and the Citadel, or a crossover between C&C and Mass Effect?
Honestly I'd consider the citadel getting hold of Tiberium as something that would make this story far less interesting, especially if they are able to properly refine it.

Them causing a massive humanitarian catastrophe would be interesting but it'd likely annoy a lot of the same people who want the citadel to get Tiberium in the first place, regardless of how realistic it'd be
 
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yeah, i see the citadel getting tiberium as the starting of a timebomb due to the arrogance of the citadel races, especialy the turians, the salarians, the asari, and maybe the batarians too.
 
yeah, i see the citadel getting tiberium as the starting of a timebomb due to the arrogance of the citadel races, especialy the turians, the salarians, the asari, and maybe the batarians too.
If the main 3 got it then they'd probably be able to contain it and stop it from infecting anywhere while they researched it at least until companies got hold of it (which they probably would because Mass Effect is all about that neoliberalism). ME's companies don't exactly have the best history regarding workplace safety and I could easily see an improperly decontaminated load of cargo ending up infecting a couple of garden worlds.

Thw Batarians however, if they got it the death toll would be in the billions at least, potentially more tens or hundreds of billions. Those guys absolutely 100% cannot be trusted with Tib
 
If the main 3 got it then they'd probably be able to contain it and stop it from infecting anywhere while they researched it at least until companies got hold of it (which they probably would because Mass Effect is all about that neoliberalism). ME's companies don't exactly have the best history regarding workplace safety and I could easily see an improperly decontaminated load of cargo ending up infecting a couple of garden worlds.

Thw Batarians however, if they got it the death toll would be in the billions at least, potentially more tens or hundreds of billions. Those guys absolutely 100% cannot be trusted with Tib
GDI would respond that they what to frankly cut off contact with them all because they have just started what they wanted to stop which is the infection of the whole galaxy and maybe universe, but don't and help with containment but not without a lot of you fucked up noises at them all.
 
Very mature to turtle down and go radio silent if you are the best source of tib-reclamation, -infection-treatment and -cleanup tech around. The people affected will surely appreciate it.
 
if the citadel gets tib and lets it loose it would be the definition of "they fucked around and found out" and would force the GDI to start going out to start the containment of planets with tib on them to stop them from growing out of control.

though if it happens it is highly likely we will lose a planet or two.
 
Very mature to turtle down and go radio silent if you are the best source of tib-reclamation, -infection-treatment and -cleanup tech around. The people affected will surely appreciate it.
I mean a lot will feel they should but help in the end still, especially if the tiberium was from them because GDI is not going to be quiet about their experience with tiberium and there view of it, it's like telling someone to not put there hand into a jar of unstable nano machines after telling them how many people died the last time they got out but they do so anyway.
 
I mean a lot will feel they should but help in the end still, especially if the tiberium was from them because GDI is not going to be quiet about their experience with tiberium and there view of it, it's like telling someone to not put there hand into a jar of unstable nano machines after telling them how many people died the last time they got out but they do so anyway.
Again, I bet all the alien children totally responsible for their governments actions affected will appreciate the noble and wise GDI telling them of the dangers and then withholding all the clanup assistance.
 
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Again, I bet all the alien children affected will appreciate the noble and wise GDI telling them of the dangers and then withholding all the clanup assistance.
i think that the GDI would provide assistance with the cleanup, it is just that they would do it while saying "i told you so" over and over to the citadel because they ignored the ,most likely, many, many warnings about tib that the GDI had given them
 
Again, I bet all the alien children totally responsible for their governments actions affected will appreciate the noble and wise GDI telling them of the dangers and then withholding all the clanup assistance.
..... Do you read my posts I said nothing about actual withholding just rightfully pissed off that it makes a lot of people say they should just cut off contact because of their blatant disregard for their warnings but just as empty bluster to relieve stress of the new battlefield they're going to.
 
It's fun to imagine GDI having impenetrable security. But a crossover that keeps Tiberium safely in GDI's hands is missing a mountain of narrative potential. Do you want a crossover between GDI and the Citadel, or a crossover between C&C and Mass Effect?
GDI and the Citadel hands down. I don't mind them getting their hands on Tib, it is not confined to our solar system. Depending on the spread and how much they listen it might go OK or terribly. What I do not want, in any shape or form is Nod existing as an independent/covert faction. I want them gone and at worst a political faction in the shape of Open Hand people.
 
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