Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
- Location
- Wall Gazing
So with that info, we now have 6 STUs, and therefore could afford to finish both the Alloys and the 2Gen Repulsor Plates even without further expanding our STU production.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Perfect.
Let's do that then.
Well, the part about finishing both, not the part about not further expanding STU production.
Let's do that then.
Well, the part about finishing both, not the part about not further expanding STU production.
- Location
- Earth
Assisted thrust on fusion engines from the new repulsors would increase heavy orbital lift and help get those orbital goals. More lift to orbit helps everything space based including everything in earth's immediate orbit. And beyond orbit later too.
I will say no longer doing discount math is quite tempting though.
- Location
- USA
That was a fantastic nat 100 result.
Fully completing the alloys for 3 STUs instead of 6 and now able to do Repulsorplate deployment as well.
That's absolutely great and what we should do.
...but after that we will absolutely have to focus on North Boston and powerplants.
Great great great. Just a wonderful turn.
Fully completing the alloys for 3 STUs instead of 6 and now able to do Repulsorplate deployment as well.
That's absolutely great and what we should do.
...but after that we will absolutely have to focus on North Boston and powerplants.
Great great great. Just a wonderful turn.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
And the Red Zones rolled a natural one, no less!
If we have the STU budget to finish phases 4-6 with -3 STU instead of -6, then there's much less need to wait. My reason for waiting was the fear that if we didn't curtail our alloy production, we'd run out of STU's and have none left for the repulsorplates.
I would say leave Gen 2 plates, then next turn we could put 1-2 dice on Aberdeen while putting 3-5 dice on Gen 2 plate factories. After that point, we go all in on North Boston, with hopefully a couple phases of Aberdeen done and Gen 2 plate factories done. If we do 5 dice a turn, that'd be ~4 turns to completion? Year and a half to North Boston completion from now doesn't seem too bad. The probability array is lacking any probability numbers for North Boston, so I'm estimating based off alloy foundry phase 4+5+6 numbers.
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So, I'm looking at the MARV hub map, and I'm wondering... just what effect would things have to break up RZs into smaller ones? Like separate the North/Central America RZ from South America's, or separate Africa's from Eurasia's, etc. Would it have an effect on how Deep Red reacts to incursions? Would it affect mutation rates any? Would it slow RZ growth in the affected RZs? Would it affect nothing, because Tib don't give a fuck? The reason I'm wondering is because (as of Q1 2062) YZ-11's hub is kinda close to cutting off South America's RZ from the rest of the Americas (on the surface, at least). That would also likely connect it to that patch of YZ on the north coast of South America that we could start securing as well.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think that surging the plate factory after the STU foundry has more potential to be transformational than pushing North Boston.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But the latter is a plan requirement, and it'll take about a year to complete unless we pile a bunch of free dice in.
- Location
- MSC
Well, Alloys will take 2-3 Qs, Tops, Repulsorplate another 2-3 Qs and we have 10 Qs in total before the end of plan.
Should be doable Plus Energy, but anything on top of that is unlikely.
Should be doable Plus Energy, but anything on top of that is unlikely.
- Location
- USA
We can finish another alloy phase and powerplant next turn.
Then try and slow walk the last alloy phase and start Repulsorplates the turn after that?
Then try and slow walk the last alloy phase and start Repulsorplates the turn after that?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes. And I think we're likely to go on spending some variable number of Free dice on Heavy Industry for most of the rest of the Four Year Plan. Because that, Orbital, and to an extent Tiberium are our big go-tos for areas we always wish we could do more in, and Heavy Industry projects tend to be the ones that unlock big benefits everywhere else.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My own view is that the reason we're building up fusion reactors isn't just to finish a specific phase, it's because this is a marathon run. We're trying to build up enough of an Energy surplus that decommissioning old first-generation fusion reactors isn't painful later.
Just before and during the Regency War, we slammed out about nine phases of those plants in a little over three years, as I recall. Losing 12-16 Energy per turn from the plants having to shut down is going to make things very ugly for us if we're not prepared. So I'm trying to plan ahead by building up considerably more Energy generating capacity than we actually need.
Just before and during the Regency War, we slammed out about nine phases of those plants in a little over three years, as I recall. Losing 12-16 Energy per turn from the plants having to shut down is going to make things very ugly for us if we're not prepared. So I'm trying to plan ahead by building up considerably more Energy generating capacity than we actually need.
Yeah, this is why it's probably a good idea to maintain 2-3 die on 2nd gen Fusion for the foreseeable future
- Location
- USA
So what's left in military that we need to do?
Phase 4 of SADN.
Phase two of orca wingmen.
More zone armor factories.
Governor refit development and deployment.
And then some stuff that should absolutely wait until Repulsorplates are done.
Transorbital fighters. Unmanned ground support vehicles. And next generation armored and support vehicles.
And then the Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory to keep the talons commitment.
That's it for plan goals. I think...
I also think we should finish the last dock for the navy. Zrbite phase two if we can get two more STUs. The support Drone. And develop the Novahawk after the Repulsorplates and transorbital fighters development.
Even better if we finish Reykjavik and get another phase of Bergen done.
Phase 4 of SADN.
Phase two of orca wingmen.
More zone armor factories.
Governor refit development and deployment.
And then some stuff that should absolutely wait until Repulsorplates are done.
Transorbital fighters. Unmanned ground support vehicles. And next generation armored and support vehicles.
And then the Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory to keep the talons commitment.
That's it for plan goals. I think...
I also think we should finish the last dock for the navy. Zrbite phase two if we can get two more STUs. The support Drone. And develop the Novahawk after the Repulsorplates and transorbital fighters development.
I'd lower that to 1-2. There isn't a urgent need to hurry there. As long as a powerplant completes every two or three turns I think we'll be fine when the time for refits come up.
Even better if we finish Reykjavik and get another phase of Bergen done.
I don't see why unmanned ground support vehicles or next gen armoured and support vehicles should wait for repulsorplates.
There's not much point in making them hover tanks, especially since it'll cost more STUs
The blurb for it stated:
16.5 tons. A modern Challenger 2 or Abrams weighs over 70
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hover USGVs might be fairly lightweight, actually, depending on the doctrinal role. And it would be good to have the option- especially with tiberium being a threat, not having a mechanical drive train to get bits of tiberium caught in is a huge military advantage that would make it far more practical for Ground Force to operate in or even near the Red Zones.
Also, "16.5 tons" isn't cited as the absolute maximum weight of a hover vehicle. The point is that you can build a hovertruck now that weighs 10 tons loaded and fit it with 6.5 tons of cargo. In other words, about 40% of the mass of the vehicle can be devoted to things other than chassis and propulsion. This is important, because if we could scale that up, it means we can build (for instance) a fifty-ton tank that carries twenty tons of armor and guns, reserving thirty tons for the hover-engine, hover-suspension, and so on.
I'm not sure how this stacks up against a real tank, but it's a lot more favorable than what could have been managed with the first generation of hoverplates.
I'm not so sure. This turn, we went down -6 Energy, even with the DAE and the ion power from our Red Zone operations, and we weren't even trying. One phase of the current fusion reactors every three turns might be enough to keep up with demand, but it's not going to let us build up a sizeable reserve of surplus Energy for the future.
Very tentative draft outline of a 2063Q3 plan:
1145/1215 R budget
6/6 Free dice (2 Heavy Industry, 1 Tiberium, 3 Orbital)
Project Progress cost assumptions influenced by Vehrec's advice, but not copying it strictly.
I posit that an incomplete project phase loses 5 points of Progress cost because of the Phase 4 foundries, per 100 points remaining to be done. Orbital projects lose 5 points per 200. In either case, the reduction is rounded to the nearest 5 points of cost reduction.
[] Draft Plan Attempting to 2063Q3
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2+3) 114/548 (3 dice, 30 R) (Phase 1, 76% Phase 2, 0.33% Phase 3)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2+3) 159/380 (2 dice, 50 R) (Phase 2, 12% Phase 3)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 2 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 240 R)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 263/305 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 2, expect ~100/295 to 150/295 on Phase 3)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5) 136/485 (5 dice, 200 R) (91% chance)
-[] Light Industry (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 75 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1105 (3 dice, 60 R) (82% chance)
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 (1 die, 15 R) (90% chance)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29 bonus, 45 R)
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 3) 98/180 (1 die, 20 R) (63% chance)
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/805 (5 dice, 25 R) (1.3% chance, ~2 dice remaining)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice + 1 Free die, +39 bonus, 225 R)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-9 East Australia) 59/85 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 (1 die, 25 R) (98% chance)
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 0/205 (3 dice, 90 R) (94% chance)
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/195 (2 dice, 50 R) (98% chance)
-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 3 Free die + EREWHON!!!, +34 bonus, 230 R)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1035 (3 dice, 60 R) (1.2% chance, 1-2 dice remaining)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486/520 (4 dice, 80 R) (Phase 4, 3.5/11 median to Phase 5)
--[] Hospital Bay 0/315 (2+E dice, 60 R) (12% chance, median result 245/305)
--[] Life Support Processor Development 0/80 (1 die, 30 R) (75% chance)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice + AA Die, +35 bonus, 105 R)
--[] University Program Updates 137/250 (1 die, 15 R) (38% chance)
--[] Cosmetic Biosculpting 0/360 (2 dice, 60 R) (2/4 median)
--[] Library Enhancement Programs 0/185 (1+AA die, 30 R) (22% chance)
-[] Military (7/7 Dice + AA Die, +31 bonus, 145 R)
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/??? (4 dice, 80 R) (??? results)
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/180 (2+AA dice, 45 R) (49% chance)
--[] MRAP Factory 0/300 (1 die, 20 R) (1/3.5 median)
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus)
--[] Administrative Assistance: Stealth Disruptors
--[] Administrative Assistance: Library Enhancement Programs
- Location
- USA
Hmm. Fair enough.
The Repulsorplates say they will unlock new military and orbital stuff. It made sense to me that if they are going to have significant impact then they might also be worth factoring into the complete upgrade plan for our vehicles.
If they aren't going to do anything then the action remains the same. But if they are as important as they seem then best to give the designers of the new vehicles a chance to look at them. Maybe draw plans for regular stuff and hover variants that can come in later.
Shrug. We aren't in that big of a hurry here. We might have Repulsorplates done in two turns. Maybe. I doubt we will have started the next gen vehicles by then.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
On that subject, having access to the updated Project Discount Tool (all percentages are from AnyDice, rounded to the whole percent and before omakes):
-[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/345 3 dice 60R 68% / 4 dice 80R 97%
-[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/230 2 dice 40R 40%/ 3 dice 60R 92%
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1) 0/145 2 dice 40R 67% / 3 dice 60R 98%
Also, these are just design/prototyping projects, rather than the actual mass production.
Your calcs are off in various places. I suppose I'll put up a draft plan of my own anyway, because I disagree with some of your choices.
Hover stuff might be useful for light vehicles for scouting/etc. Anything likely to get shot at is probably far better off being tracked at least for now. I'm willing to bet you can get more armour and a bigger gun on a tracked vehicle.
Aircraft? Sure, stick repulsor plates on them. Not tanks though
- Location
- The Underdark
Not what that means. 10 total tons fully loaded, 6.5 of which are cargo.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes.
Among other things, this is probably the design of tank, fighter plan, and so on that we will be using for at least the next 15-20 years. The Predator tank and the Firehawk fighter are both 2030s designs, and they are still in service in 2063, while their replacements are at best vaporware. It is unlikely that they will be retired entirely from frontline operations until 2070 at the earliest even if we start building factories to churn out their replacements now.
By extension, it seems likely that the military vehicles we design now would remain in use until 2090 or later.
So we shouldn't be focused entirely on "the STU costs are too high right now." We're planning ahead into the long term. We have every reason to hope that STU production will increase significantly in the next few years as we continue to aggressively mine tiberium and develop more efficient refining practices. Looking forward up to, say, the late 2070s or 2080s, we may even be able to STU mining from the tiberium deposits on Venus.
But with that said, since we only committed to developing the next generation vehicles, not deploying them, I'm not concerned about speed. We can do those developments in 2065 and it's okay.
Do you have a firm number on the cost of SADN Phase 4? Because I don't recall that being released to the thread yet. Also, it should be noted that we need to build at least four of the Set 2 Zone Armor factories, as I recall, so the effective dice cost (given that there is rollover) is more likely to be roughly 7-8 dice total.
If you know this authoritatively enough to say "your calcs are off" and not "I'm not sure you got those calcs right" or something... Would you mind sharing the objective, factual rules of How Things Work so that I can independently understand your reasoning?
Huh? Oh! I thought it was 16.5 tons fully loaded, 6.5 of which are cargo. That's much better than I'd thought! Thanks!
Why? We don't know what the upper weight limit of a hover vehicle is, as far as I can tell, if it's built big enough.
There might be a problem with putting a railgun on a hovertank because of the recoil, granted. But:
1) One way to solve that is with a laser or plasma weapon, and we have those options thanks to Talons research.
2) Another way to solve that is to use, as I recall, the known ability of second generation hoverplates to "emergency brake" in an attempt to counteract the recoil. However, this leaves you with a tank that can't fire on the move without experiencing radical changes in speed and heading, so it's not ideal.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
When you say cost, are you referring to R cost or dice cost? If the latter, absolutely firm. The former, not so firm, and merely an extrapolation based on the past numbers.
The updated Project Discount Tool is available on the Discord, and in a fair number of places, your estimated progress requirements are greater, or lesser than the the amount displayed there.
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