Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I don't disagree, but it should be noted that we're doing pretty well with our targets as-is. We should seriously consider doing the forestry reclamation projects before we start going 'extra' on the consumer food targets.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't care about Reforestation Campaign Preparations. It's a Plan Goal, so we're going to do it no matter what, but it's also a massive dice sink that won't really do much of anything for many many years, and only after putting even more piles of dice into its sequel project. The only practical benefit we really get from the project is as a way to activate Agriculture dice for only 5R per die. I'd far rather we concentrated our Agriculture dice elsewhere.
- Location
- USA
But....
We do have to do it. It is a plan goal.
I'm not saying we put all our agriculture dice on them till they are done but we should definitely start putting a dice or two per turn on them. It's a big project and we've gotten burned trying to rush those in the past. Best to start chipping away at them.
We do have to do it. It is a plan goal.
I'm not saying we put all our agriculture dice on them till they are done but we should definitely start putting a dice or two per turn on them. It's a big project and we've gotten burned trying to rush those in the past. Best to start chipping away at them.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Personally I think it may have real benefits on civilian morale. Because it suggests that Treasury, at least, hasn't actually given up hope of reclaiming the Earth. In the wake of the political crisis brought on by the 1 we rolled for Tiberian Prediction Algorithms, that combined with a strong commitment to distributing inhibitors, rolling back the Red Zones, and continuing to colonize space is going to become a vital policy matter, touching on matters far more fundamental than "but do we have lab-grown hamburgers?"
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Plus it's very much a good goal to get the first phase of done before the election.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, that's a goal that's actually not easy for us to achieve now, because we only have three quarters to fit it into. It's by no means impossible, but it would require us to make a fairly intentional focus on it, to the expense of other projects whose impact on the public is easier to evaluate because we know what "more cheese" means.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Each Phase of Alloys drops the amount of work needed by:
25. Which means at the start, before subtracting any Alloy bonuses, the Reforestation campaign was 905. 905-25*5 = 680
The Difference between 680 and 830, which is the bets case scenario of having the 5% discount from the current phase of Alloys that we did this turn and did not get, is 150 which is 2-3 Dice saved on the first Phase alone. If we just roll 1-2 Die on each turn while still doing alloys it won't be a big deal as it will end up with the first Phase being 700-720 in progress and the other Phases being 680.
We've done Actions like that already. OK then I'll fit in a slow roll of that Action into the next version of my plan since I do have 2 Die I can move to that project.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Wasn't this mathed out earlier and came out to an average of about 9 dice? Or 11? Either way that seems quite reasonable, and shouldn't cut into Lab Meat or Agriculture Mechanization much. Or Spider Cotton and Tarberries. It'd take some concentration, but it's not like we're desperate for some other project.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think we can drop ongoing work on spider cotton and tarberries for a while; we're not that hard up. And there's dice left over to do mechanization, develop lab meat, maybe a limited rollout by year's end.
But it's getting to where things are tight if we want Reforestation Prep Phase 1 and significant other stuff out of Agriculture.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I don't particularly care about the other projects right now. The narrative around Agriculture Mechanization has cooled my enthusiasm for that project. We've gotten a full phase each at least of our gene engineered super crops set up and producing. Vertical Farms could stand to sit while the chicken population catches up with the farms we have. Aquaponics is mostly making animal feed at this point. Stored food might be popular with the population, but isn't with the thread. That leaves the milk farms, which I think should be put on hold until Q3, and Lab Meat, which only needs 1 die this turn. I'd be fine with a plan that put 5 dice on Reforestation and 1 on Lab meat.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The trick is that lab meat research isn't that great an idea without the will to commit to lab meat deployment. Which is liable to be a more significant project.
And yeah, I too have lost enthusiasm for mechanization just as a vehicle for "more Food," though it should be noted that we really do have a Labor crunch on our hands and have to engage with the problem somehow.
And yeah, I too have lost enthusiasm for mechanization just as a vehicle for "more Food," though it should be noted that we really do have a Labor crunch on our hands and have to engage with the problem somehow.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Rereading this, the underlined part might be referring to us getting projects in the future to build more educational facilities. The last time we did so was long before the immigration wave from the Regency War. (Also, the first part might simply be referring to how the project gives us effectively zero +Labor.)
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Problem is, it seems the shortage we are having is in educated, more technical specialties, such as Doctors, drone repairmen, etc. Freeing up farmhands and very simple factory workers isn't that helpful regarding the main problem of lacking advanced technical specialists.
That's almost entirely handled by the Services department these days. They've grown large and well-funded enough that they're able to handle it on their own.
I think the only bits of education we do is technical education for novel or crash-built applications?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, well, we're pretty goddamn hard up for Services projects these days, and we have almost no Plan commitments along those lines.
If they offered us a spinoff "Bureau of Technical Retraining" or something that would be spun off and folded into the Department of Education but ate one of our Service dice in exchange for, oh, +1 Labor per turn or even every other turn, I'd take it.
If they offered us a spinoff "Bureau of Technical Retraining" or something that would be spun off and folded into the Department of Education but ate one of our Service dice in exchange for, oh, +1 Labor per turn or even every other turn, I'd take it.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I don't see your point. Or rather, I don't see why it matters. Two phases of the Reforestation project need to be done. Doing one phase before the election should raise confidence in party we're supporting through this project, as well as alay concerns the public has in GDI's long term plans for Earth. Lab Meat only needs one die to find out what the size of the project behind it is. If the project is to big to fit alongside phase one Reforestation, it'll keep. If we can do both, we do that.
I feel you simply don't understand that not everyone can understand the education to do the kinds of jobs we're running into problems with. Automating unskilled jobs away doesn't help with that. More available education doesn't help with that. That requires either a way to automated those highly skilled positions, or increase GDI's population so we have more of those kinds of people.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My own perspective is that frontloading a reforestation phase and doing the meat development later is probably for the best, but I don't want to argue endlessly over one die.
I feel you're being kind of condescending here. Actually very condescending. "I feel you simply don't understand that not everyone can understand." Fucking really?
I also think that the fraction of the populace which is educable is much higher than some believe. Not everyone has a head for calculus, but there are very very few people who are incapable of doing anything more complex than picking fruit. And frankly, putting those people out of a job and onto permanent welfare because a robot can do their job more efficiently isn't necessarily a bad thing. Among other things, someone who's mentally incapable of doing anything more complex than picking fruit is probably someone it's morally problematic to force to work for you in the first place.
As an aside didn't various education options also provide for trade schools and such - education does not simply mean 'university' it also means other types of training. Which is good. A society should give its people options when it comes to bettering themselves - be it going to school for liberal arts or going to school to pick up a trade. Both, and other options, are essential, and all get covered by 'funding education'.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Plan draft REWRITE. Based off Lightwhispers work, but cross-referencing the results post.
EDIT: Some accounting fixes. 'Promoted' three housing refit dice to rail dice.
Budget:
1190/1300 R
(only 1220 RpT income)
6/6 Free Dice
==Issues==
ENERGY BALANCE:
+28 (baseline) +4 (DAE) +2 (RZBO Stage 4)
-1 (dairy) -12 (inhibitors) -1 (hospitals) -2 (SADN) -2 (Santiago)
->
+16 Energy, 12% chance of +35 Energy.
Realistically better than this; it is very unlikely that all four inhibitors complete, for instance
CAPITAL GOODS BALANCE:
+27 (baseline) +2 (DHIA) -1 (gravitics) -1 (hospitals) -1 (Santiago) -10 (private sector)
->
+16 Capital Goods, closing in on +8 more from ongoing projects unlikely to complete
FREE DICE:
3 on Heavy Industry
1 on Orbital
2 on Military
[] Draft Plan Attempting to Inhibit Some Tiberium
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 0/170 (1 die, 10 R) (1/2 median)
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 5) 39/280 (3 dice, 45 R) (55% chance)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 110/225 (1 die, 25 R) (28% chance)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 280 R)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 75/310 (2 dice, 40 R) (12% chance)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 4) 32/510 (6 dice, 240 R) (73% chance)
-[] Light Industry (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 553/1120 (4 dice, 80 R) (4/7 median)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29 bonus, 55 R)
--[] Laboratory Meat Development 0/100 (1 die, 15 R) (45% chance)
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 2) 163/190 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 0/835 (4 dice, 20 R) (4/10.5 median)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice, +39 bonus, 195 R)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-2 North America) 49/90 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-4 Southeast Arabia) 0/85 (1 die, 30 R) (70% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-8 Patagonia) 0/85 (1 die, 30 R) (70% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-9 East Australia) 0/85 (1 die, 30 R) (70% chance)
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 4+5) 93/440 (3 dice, 75 R) (Stage 4, 11% Stage 5)
-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 1 Free die + EREWHON!!!, +34 bonus, 190 R)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 392/430 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
--[] Fusion Shipyard 446/475 (E die, 20 R) (86% chance)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 324/1045 (4 dice, 100 R) (4/8 median)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/520 (3 dice, 60 R) (45% chance)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +35 bonus, 105 R)
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/280 (3 dice, 75 R) (94% chance)
--[] Autodoc Systems Development 52/120 (1 die, 30 R) (88% chance)
---[] If other non-AEVA Services projects present themselves, I'll probably put one of the hospital dice on one
-[] Military (7/7 Dice + 2 Free + 1 AA dice, +31 bonus, 205 R)
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 2+3) 149/615 (7+AA dice, 160 R) (Phase 2, 98.2% Phase 3)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Santiago) 127/165 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Combat Laser Development 38/80 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 0 R)
--[] AA die on Strategic Area Defense Networks
--[] Hand Off Capital Goods to Market (-10 Capital Goods)
--[] Interdepartmental Favors:
---[] Housing (complete Postwar Housing Refits and Rail Network Phase 5)
EDIT: Some accounting fixes. 'Promoted' three housing refit dice to rail dice.
Budget:
1190/1300 R
(only 1220 RpT income)
6/6 Free Dice
==Issues==
ENERGY BALANCE:
+28 (baseline) +4 (DAE) +2 (RZBO Stage 4)
-1 (dairy) -12 (inhibitors) -1 (hospitals) -2 (SADN) -2 (Santiago)
->
+16 Energy, 12% chance of +35 Energy.
Realistically better than this; it is very unlikely that all four inhibitors complete, for instance
CAPITAL GOODS BALANCE:
+27 (baseline) +2 (DHIA) -1 (gravitics) -1 (hospitals) -1 (Santiago) -10 (private sector)
->
+16 Capital Goods, closing in on +8 more from ongoing projects unlikely to complete
FREE DICE:
3 on Heavy Industry
1 on Orbital
2 on Military
[] Draft Plan Attempting to Inhibit Some Tiberium
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 0/170 (1 die, 10 R) (1/2 median)
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 5) 39/280 (3 dice, 45 R) (55% chance)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 110/225 (1 die, 25 R) (28% chance)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 280 R)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 75/310 (2 dice, 40 R) (12% chance)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 4) 32/510 (6 dice, 240 R) (73% chance)
-[] Light Industry (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 553/1120 (4 dice, 80 R) (4/7 median)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29 bonus, 55 R)
--[] Laboratory Meat Development 0/100 (1 die, 15 R) (45% chance)
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 2) 163/190 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 0/835 (4 dice, 20 R) (4/10.5 median)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice, +39 bonus, 195 R)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-2 North America) 49/90 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-4 Southeast Arabia) 0/85 (1 die, 30 R) (70% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-8 Patagonia) 0/85 (1 die, 30 R) (70% chance)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-9 East Australia) 0/85 (1 die, 30 R) (70% chance)
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 4+5) 93/440 (3 dice, 75 R) (Stage 4, 11% Stage 5)
-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 1 Free die + EREWHON!!!, +34 bonus, 190 R)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 392/430 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
--[] Fusion Shipyard 446/475 (E die, 20 R) (86% chance)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 324/1045 (4 dice, 100 R) (4/8 median)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/520 (3 dice, 60 R) (45% chance)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +35 bonus, 105 R)
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/280 (3 dice, 75 R) (94% chance)
--[] Autodoc Systems Development 52/120 (1 die, 30 R) (88% chance)
---[] If other non-AEVA Services projects present themselves, I'll probably put one of the hospital dice on one
-[] Military (7/7 Dice + 2 Free + 1 AA dice, +31 bonus, 205 R)
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 2+3) 149/615 (7+AA dice, 160 R) (Phase 2, 98.2% Phase 3)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Santiago) 127/165 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[] Combat Laser Development 38/80 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 0 R)
--[] AA die on Strategic Area Defense Networks
--[] Hand Off Capital Goods to Market (-10 Capital Goods)
--[] Interdepartmental Favors:
---[] Housing (complete Postwar Housing Refits and Rail Network Phase 5)
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
Shala is there:
-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/520 3 dice 60R 45%, 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4+5) 229/1550 13 dice 260R 9%, 14 dice 280R 32%, 15 dice 300R 63%
Also I would move the AA dice to the shipyard and move the normal dice down to shala so we can knock out that phase and spend fewer turns pushing phase 5 since that is going to lock our follow up stations and let us know how much we need to stress orbital.
I would also slide a die from housing refits to suborbital shuttle, you have the free R to do so and still rollover a good chunk and phase 1 of housing should still finish while it makes it much more likely phase 2 of shuttles finishes.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm looking at the version linked in the threadmarked version, here
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
New, hopefully-up-to-date (as of Feb 26, 2023) Probability Array. (Newness not guaranteed in all regions. Void where prohibited, or in regions of nulled spacetime. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.) -[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 4) 1/510 5 dice 75R 5%, 6 dice 90R 35%, 7 dice 105R 74%, 8 dice...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
And it's not there. I believe your numbers, but it's not in the threadmark.
I consider being that much more sure of completing SADN Phase 3 to be worth it, compared to the +39 Progress on Shala. Also, an AA die gives us a small but nontrivial chance of having to spend a second die on the gravitic shipyard next turn in the event of failure, which I prefer to avoid with 30 R/die projects.
This is reasonable, especially since my plan didn't involve a major income handover to any other department this turn.
- Location
- USA
That would also help with red zones and connecting all those cities we built.
Shala's there, SV just ate the line between it and the Columbia Bays, so it was hiding.
Seems to be fixed, but let me know if that comes back.