In general, I'd prefer not to spend any PS on either Where to Meet nor the exact Trade Policy. The numbers involved are very high on our end to even propose an idea, much less actually weigh the scales to actually push the results towards that direction, so I think we should let the rest of the Initiative decide on their own what they want.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Overall, I want to go heavy on supporting Karachi so we can fulfill that promise (even of the one who wanted it is dead, I think it still really needs to be done so the Treasury keeps to its promises) without getting into a war. For a big concession, I'd like to do Tiberium Abatement, since Tiberium is very much The Enemy we want to keep at bay as much as possible.
Not sure what else, those are the two big things for me though.
Not sure what else, those are the two big things for me though.
[]Plan Diplomatic Support for Karachi
-[ ] Seoul
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Technological Transfers
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Military Concessions
--[ ] Propose (-0 PS)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Lobby (-10 PS)
The idea here is to suggest Seoul to give our negotiators more support, try to get Karachi on the table as a non-military exercise, and also push for nerd treats.
Edit: spends 55 PS, leaving us at a comfortable 54.
-[ ] Seoul
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Technological Transfers
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Military Concessions
--[ ] Propose (-0 PS)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Lobby (-10 PS)
The idea here is to suggest Seoul to give our negotiators more support, try to get Karachi on the table as a non-military exercise, and also push for nerd treats.
Edit: spends 55 PS, leaving us at a comfortable 54.
Last edited:
- Location
- MSC
So, GDI consensus (outside of Treasury) is Limited Navigation at best. And most of Treasury want Karachi.
But is NOD in a bad enough spot to accept such a deal? Plus tech on top?
But is NOD in a bad enough spot to accept such a deal? Plus tech on top?
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
I have no idea what to go for.
But Karachi is a must since we are going to do it regardless of if we get a deal or not. If we just attack after the negotiations whatever deal will probably be ruined.
The tiberium abatement option also appeals to me.
Everything else I'll leave to you guys to discuss. No idea if tech trades would even be worth it. We seem well ahead at the moment but who knows.
But Karachi is a must since we are going to do it regardless of if we get a deal or not. If we just attack after the negotiations whatever deal will probably be ruined.
The tiberium abatement option also appeals to me.
Everything else I'll leave to you guys to discuss. No idea if tech trades would even be worth it. We seem well ahead at the moment but who knows.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, but look at the sheer PS cost of those line items. We don't have the leverage to get many of them with confidence. So unless merely lobbying would reliably be enough to get the conference hosted in India (I doubt it), we need to be careful about what we weigh in on.
We might be able to do a minimalist deal (something like Limited Navigation and Tech Transfer) that wouldn't be scuttled by a military campaign for Karachi, but I'm not certain about that.
- Location
- ?????????
[]Plan Diplomatic Support for Karachi + Taiwan
-[ ] Seoul
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Taiwan
--[ ] Propose (-0 PS)
-[ ] Technological Transfers
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Military Concessions
--[ ] Propose (-0 PS)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Lobby (-10 PS)
Light's plan is good. I like it and probably will approval vote it. But I want to propose Taiwan to a) make it and Karachi a Softline position that our diplomats can reduce to just Karachi and because Taiwan is strategically important
Source for this? The words "Extorting" were used. This isn't a trade but a demand from us. At least that's how I read it
-[ ] Seoul
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Taiwan
--[ ] Propose (-0 PS)
-[ ] Technological Transfers
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Military Concessions
--[ ] Propose (-0 PS)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Lobby (-10 PS)
Light's plan is good. I like it and probably will approval vote it. But I want to propose Taiwan to a) make it and Karachi a Softline position that our diplomats can reduce to just Karachi and because Taiwan is strategically important
Source for this? The words "Extorting" were used. This isn't a trade but a demand from us. At least that's how I read it
Last edited:
- Location
- Most likely California
Hmm, how do people feel about choosing Establishment of Territorial Waters?
Sure it might upset the GDI hardliners, but since it recognizes already de-facto NOD territory, it serves as a concession that cost us almost nothing. Thus making NOD more likely to agree to other aspects of the treaty, while the deconfliction lets us build up our defenses during the meantime, especially if we also choose to ask for Taiwan.
For the rest, don't really care about meeting place, want Limited Navigation, Taiwan, Karachi, and Tiberium Abatement Coordination.
Sure it might upset the GDI hardliners, but since it recognizes already de-facto NOD territory, it serves as a concession that cost us almost nothing. Thus making NOD more likely to agree to other aspects of the treaty, while the deconfliction lets us build up our defenses during the meantime, especially if we also choose to ask for Taiwan.
For the rest, don't really care about meeting place, want Limited Navigation, Taiwan, Karachi, and Tiberium Abatement Coordination.
I don't think we'll go for it (due to the other issues involved), but Dhaka does count for fulfilling our promise to complete Karachi.
As I see it, we have three options:
-Go for a minimal agreement now, so that we can break it with minimal consequences when we invade Karachi.
-Give multiple major concessions to Nod for Karachi (noting that Nod giving us Taiwan is a major concession for them, so Nod will be getting a loottttttt of goodies for it)
-Give a minor concession to Nod for Dhaka, with the knowledge that if the deal blows up that the city will be lost
What we absolutely do not want, is for an involved deal (e.g. we get Taiwan and techs) to be made with Nod, but we neither secure Karachi nor Dhaka. As breaking that deal by invading Karachi would invite further reprisals, and more wide-scale consequences with the rest of Nod going forward.
As I see it, we have three options:
-Go for a minimal agreement now, so that we can break it with minimal consequences when we invade Karachi.
-Give multiple major concessions to Nod for Karachi (noting that Nod giving us Taiwan is a major concession for them, so Nod will be getting a loottttttt of goodies for it)
-Give a minor concession to Nod for Dhaka, with the knowledge that if the deal blows up that the city will be lost
What we absolutely do not want, is for an involved deal (e.g. we get Taiwan and techs) to be made with Nod, but we neither secure Karachi nor Dhaka. As breaking that deal by invading Karachi would invite further reprisals, and more wide-scale consequences with the rest of Nod going forward.
Last edited:
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
It is a guess.
- Location
- ?????????
Were this a peace treaty I'd agree with you but it's not that. It's negotiating a humanitarian corridor with some line items being put on the table. We will still be in a state of war after this is all said and done. If items like Karachi are not even on the final deal then you can't really say it's breaking the deal
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Karachi is the absolute must on my end of things. Lightwhisper's plan is fine by me.
I think that suggesting both will send very mixed and confusing messages, and Taiwan becoming useful will likely result in problems such as "war goes hot that blows up the whole agreement."
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[ ]Plan Seo Goes to India
-[ ]Where to Meet 15 PS
--[ ]Chennai
---[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ]Trade Policy 35 PS
--[ ] Establishment of Territorial Waters
---[ ] Campaign (-35 PS)
-[ ]Territorial Concessions 25 PS
--[ ] Karachi Trade Route
---[ ] Insist (-25 PS)
-[ ]Other Items 5 PS
--[ ] Military Concessions
---[ ] Lobby (-0 PS)
--[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
---[ ] Propose (-5 PS)
80/109 PS
The focus here is concessions to the Bannerjees and Yao in exchange for Karachi over Dhaki. Karachi shores up our position in Asia, so we let them shore up theirs and make it mutually difficult to attack each other.
The way I see it, we can't stamp them out, and we can't keep them wound up without risking a nuclear exchange, so we'd better figure out how to live with them. First step is to make them feel secure enough they don't need to try anything without leaving us vulnerable to getting tried.
-[ ]Where to Meet 15 PS
--[ ]Chennai
---[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ]Trade Policy 35 PS
--[ ] Establishment of Territorial Waters
---[ ] Campaign (-35 PS)
-[ ]Territorial Concessions 25 PS
--[ ] Karachi Trade Route
---[ ] Insist (-25 PS)
-[ ]Other Items 5 PS
--[ ] Military Concessions
---[ ] Lobby (-0 PS)
--[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
---[ ] Propose (-5 PS)
80/109 PS
The focus here is concessions to the Bannerjees and Yao in exchange for Karachi over Dhaki. Karachi shores up our position in Asia, so we let them shore up theirs and make it mutually difficult to attack each other.
The way I see it, we can't stamp them out, and we can't keep them wound up without risking a nuclear exchange, so we'd better figure out how to live with them. First step is to make them feel secure enough they don't need to try anything without leaving us vulnerable to getting tried.
Last edited:
The 'humanitarian corridor' is the minimalist deal, which is basically all the military wants.
It is things like 'territorial concessions, tech transfers, military concessions, and tiberium abatement' that would move it towards a peace deal that breaking by invading Karachi that would have disatrous consequences on our end.
Which is why the military doesn't want any of those entanglements.
And that's why IF wants to take as much as possible, and then to break the deal later. They win coming (the GDI is strengthened), and going (the GDI backstabs Nod, the conflict with Nod goes hot worldwide, and Nod is much less willing to make peace for the next generation).
Last edited:
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Oh Boy Here We Go.
Where to Meet:
[ ] Seoul: GDI, Local Area, Security Issues
[ ] San Diego: GDI, Potentially Scuttle Negotiations, Out of Local Area
[ ] Chennai: NOD (Bannerjee), Local Area, Info On India?
[ ] Shanghai: NOD (Yao), Local Area, Smaller, Boost To Yao Relations?
[ ] Manila: NOD (Bintang), Local Area, Info On Pirate?
[ ] Sao Paulo: NOD (Stahl), Out of Local Area, Neutral
This is going to be recorded and used for propaganda purposes by both NOD and GDI. While Sao Paulo is neutral, it gives Stahl, one of the two NOD warlords that came out of the Regency War better then they went in, a lot of influence, and I really don't want to give him anything we don't have to. San Diego is out as it is a bridge to far for the folks we are negotiating with, too far in GDI territory, to far from their center's of power. Manila is similar to Sao Paulo for Bintang instead of Stahl. That leave Seoul for GDI support, Shanghai for Yao support, and Chennai to try to get a look at India. I don't think going for India is a good choice as it would cost too much to ensure it (also similar disadvantages with Stahl and Bintang). Between Seoul and Shanghai, Seoul is the reliable option while Shanghai has more soft power influence to get Yao on side, not as much would potentially get done as it would be smaller, but it has interesting potential.
Trade Policy:
[ ] Freedom of the Seas: Bridge too Far for Hardliners, Naval issues in future, While idealistic not practical, Significant carrot
[ ] Establishment of Territorial Waters: Unpopular with Hardliners, Military reinforcement of Yao, Potential synergy with taking Taiwan.
[ ] Limited Navigation: Humanitarian corridors, moderate security,
[ ] Verified Humanitarian Supplies Only: Supported by Hardliners, maximize security, Potentially Scuttle Negotiations
Limited Navigation, everything else is either too lax in security or too likely to not occur.
Territorial concessions:
[ ] Taiwan: Very much want as a bulwark, not against Yao, but Bintang. It is a very aggressive move though, and isn't something I think we must have.
[ ] Karachi Trade Route: This is the main thing we care about, and could cause a lot of issues should it fall through. Ideally we don't have to fight for Karachi, but
[ ] Dhaka Trade Route: Not worth it in my opinion, It's too isolated, and while is a source of MAD, I don't think we need more then the WMDs already provide us. As certain recent events have shown people can be willing to destroy their economy if it gets what they want.
Not Dhaka. Karachi yes, Taiwan would be nice.
Other Items:
[ ] Technological Transfers: More Gatcha. That is a good and bad thing, there are enough various techs we still need to develop and deploy, this is not needed in my opinion.
[ ] Military Concessions: Unnecessary risk for the deal to fall through
[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination: Always a good thing
What do we want out of this? We want Karachi. We want humanitarian corridors. We want Yao to become more aligned to us.
[ ] Plan Limited Goals
-[ ] Seoul
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Limited Navigation
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Insist (-25 PS)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Lobby(-10 PS)
Total: -65 PS/109
Seoul to support our negotiating team, Limited Navigation as its the only acceptable option. Karachi Trade to try and avoid an armed conflict over it. Tib Abatement because it would help build trust and fight tib.
Where to Meet:
[ ] Seoul: GDI, Local Area, Security Issues
[ ] San Diego: GDI, Potentially Scuttle Negotiations, Out of Local Area
[ ] Chennai: NOD (Bannerjee), Local Area, Info On India?
[ ] Shanghai: NOD (Yao), Local Area, Smaller, Boost To Yao Relations?
[ ] Manila: NOD (Bintang), Local Area, Info On Pirate?
[ ] Sao Paulo: NOD (Stahl), Out of Local Area, Neutral
This is going to be recorded and used for propaganda purposes by both NOD and GDI. While Sao Paulo is neutral, it gives Stahl, one of the two NOD warlords that came out of the Regency War better then they went in, a lot of influence, and I really don't want to give him anything we don't have to. San Diego is out as it is a bridge to far for the folks we are negotiating with, too far in GDI territory, to far from their center's of power. Manila is similar to Sao Paulo for Bintang instead of Stahl. That leave Seoul for GDI support, Shanghai for Yao support, and Chennai to try to get a look at India. I don't think going for India is a good choice as it would cost too much to ensure it (also similar disadvantages with Stahl and Bintang). Between Seoul and Shanghai, Seoul is the reliable option while Shanghai has more soft power influence to get Yao on side, not as much would potentially get done as it would be smaller, but it has interesting potential.
Trade Policy:
[ ] Freedom of the Seas: Bridge too Far for Hardliners, Naval issues in future, While idealistic not practical, Significant carrot
[ ] Establishment of Territorial Waters: Unpopular with Hardliners, Military reinforcement of Yao, Potential synergy with taking Taiwan.
[ ] Limited Navigation: Humanitarian corridors, moderate security,
[ ] Verified Humanitarian Supplies Only: Supported by Hardliners, maximize security, Potentially Scuttle Negotiations
Limited Navigation, everything else is either too lax in security or too likely to not occur.
Territorial concessions:
[ ] Taiwan: Very much want as a bulwark, not against Yao, but Bintang. It is a very aggressive move though, and isn't something I think we must have.
[ ] Karachi Trade Route: This is the main thing we care about, and could cause a lot of issues should it fall through. Ideally we don't have to fight for Karachi, but
[ ] Dhaka Trade Route: Not worth it in my opinion, It's too isolated, and while is a source of MAD, I don't think we need more then the WMDs already provide us. As certain recent events have shown people can be willing to destroy their economy if it gets what they want.
Not Dhaka. Karachi yes, Taiwan would be nice.
Other Items:
[ ] Technological Transfers: More Gatcha. That is a good and bad thing, there are enough various techs we still need to develop and deploy, this is not needed in my opinion.
[ ] Military Concessions: Unnecessary risk for the deal to fall through
[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination: Always a good thing
What do we want out of this? We want Karachi. We want humanitarian corridors. We want Yao to become more aligned to us.
[ ] Plan Limited Goals
-[ ] Seoul
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Limited Navigation
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Insist (-25 PS)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Lobby(-10 PS)
Total: -65 PS/109
Seoul to support our negotiating team, Limited Navigation as its the only acceptable option. Karachi Trade to try and avoid an armed conflict over it. Tib Abatement because it would help build trust and fight tib.
Last edited:
I generally speaking like all the plans so far - though I do think Limited Navigation would be useful as well. I think some sort of safe travel corridor would be extremely useful. And if not the one I said then the humanitarian one. I'm also a huge fan of Tiberium Abatement Coordination.
Taiwan sounds like a thing to throw on the table as a 'hey maybe we can get this" sort of deal. Karachi Trade Route helps our future goals immensely.
--
Actually Plan Limited Goals seems like the one I like the most. I see a lot of potential for this being useful for future elements.
I could see adding tech transfer but its not super important as a focus to me.
Taiwan sounds like a thing to throw on the table as a 'hey maybe we can get this" sort of deal. Karachi Trade Route helps our future goals immensely.
--
Actually Plan Limited Goals seems like the one I like the most. I see a lot of potential for this being useful for future elements.
I could see adding tech transfer but its not super important as a focus to me.
Last edited:
- Location
- ?????????
Yeah. I didn't quite mean it as that. I meant that in the event of a war going hot, having Taiwan would be nice. It is still a secondary/sacrificial point to try and get Karachi. Alabative armour if you will
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[] Plan Draft Focus In, Spend Heavily
-[] Limited Navigation: Propose (-15 PS)
-[] Karachi Trade Route: Insist (-25 PS)
-[] Tiberium Abatement Coordination: Campaign (-20 PS)
Limited Navigation seems to be the most likely consensus result of the negotiations based on what we've seen up to this point. Pushing for it, rather than the more restricted Verified Humanitarian Supplies Only action, or the less restrictive options that give Bintang and the Bannerjees a lot of wiggle room, seems like a good angle.
Karachi Trade Route would be a godsend for us and is well worth maximal investment. Hopefully it means we can build the planned city and transportation route without fighting.
Tiberium Abatement Coordination: Right now, southeast Asia is one of the biggest stretches of territory on the planet where we have effectively no penetration for purposes of getting tiberium under control. This is worth us spending PS on.
Technology Transfers is sexy but we can live without it. The location of the conference matters not a whit to me.
This plan spends a full 60 PS, putting us at 49 PS at the start of the 2062Q4 turn post, but we'll start recouping our losses very quickly with Shala and Columbia, and by investing heavily in the Karachi and tiberium items, we may make room for some very good things.
-[] Limited Navigation: Propose (-15 PS)
-[] Karachi Trade Route: Insist (-25 PS)
-[] Tiberium Abatement Coordination: Campaign (-20 PS)
Limited Navigation seems to be the most likely consensus result of the negotiations based on what we've seen up to this point. Pushing for it, rather than the more restricted Verified Humanitarian Supplies Only action, or the less restrictive options that give Bintang and the Bannerjees a lot of wiggle room, seems like a good angle.
Karachi Trade Route would be a godsend for us and is well worth maximal investment. Hopefully it means we can build the planned city and transportation route without fighting.
Tiberium Abatement Coordination: Right now, southeast Asia is one of the biggest stretches of territory on the planet where we have effectively no penetration for purposes of getting tiberium under control. This is worth us spending PS on.
Technology Transfers is sexy but we can live without it. The location of the conference matters not a whit to me.
This plan spends a full 60 PS, putting us at 49 PS at the start of the 2062Q4 turn post, but we'll start recouping our losses very quickly with Shala and Columbia, and by investing heavily in the Karachi and tiberium items, we may make room for some very good things.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, in this case, Taiwan is a matter of asking Nod to give something up, and so is Karachi, so as "ablative armor" things could get weird.
Uh, could you expand on that? It sounds like you know something I don't, or that I missed something.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Since it is gatcha, it might get us some better tib refining tech, which we very much need. It's low risk and variable reward, so I'd go for it.
I also want to point out that we've got a lot of Political Support options coming our way, so I wouldn't bat an eye at spending 80 support or more. We can earn it back pretty quickly.
Last edited:
- Location
- ?????????
Maybe not 80 but @Nottheunmaker does have a valid point. We can regain PS pretty quickly by making a few promises next turn