So there was a bit of a back-and-forth on the Discord regarding what our 'Next Gen' robots might be like, augments and such which... Basically is just revisiting stuff that I'm pretty sure has been talked a bunch about even here in the thread before. But it put a hilarious idea in my head that I typed up, and then elaborated on and uh... Well, I felt like it was worth bringing over here. Especially the last bit.

You know, I'm now picturing our GDI having a cross-over event with 'canon' Post 2100 GDI. Just with a few things fiddled with so we lack the whole 'set up is there for Mass Effect cross over later on'.
It is absolutely hilarious.

Like, we probably creep them out so much worse than Nod popping back up from where ever they disappeared to would.

Also kind of curious just how the two Kane factions would react to bumping into each other, however our Kane faction turns out...
I mean, think about it. It's two very different GDIs. The canon one crushed Nod utterly, yet 'lost' in the end because tiberium consumed them to the point that they basically had to 'surrender' to Kane in order to save the world. Even then, indications are they got an inferior TCN than we will.
Which is one of the reasons their civil war's probably a lot more... all-or-nothing than ours might be. Though it could also go the other way.

We however... We haven't crushed Nod. We've soundly defeated them in a way that they just aren't used to suffering because all the previous times it's happened, it's been in a way they can rebuild from by trading territory whilst GDI's also needing to rebuild. We took the territory when they have very little 'spare' territory left, forced them to need to rebuild and... didn't really need to rebuild ourselves. In fact, we're more or less undoubtedly come out stronger from the Regency War than we went in.

On the other hand, Tiberium is in severe retreat. It's definitely not defeated as learning what the underground situation is starting to show but... We have time. A very possible result is that we lose the Earth but continue as an interplanetary civilisation at worst.
Then you have the social and technological changes which are just... oh boy...
If there's a cyborg-gene aug faction in the future, it's going to be GDI. Not Nod.

Nod's gone for the 'super soldier' and 'clone army' routes instead.

Plus all the energy weapons we've picked up.
And a solid start on the stealth tech tree.
To put it one way, 'canon' GDI is a mix of Soviet and USA Cold War 'into the future' military whereas our GDI is very much more 'modern USA military into the future'.

Our GDI probably looks on them with a touch of pity and also a wince at how they very much could see themselves having gone down that path. Canon GDI meanwhile is... I'm not actually entirely sure. But I'd suspect a solid amount of bitterness, guilt, envy at how they lost to when it was clear they didn't have to and stubborn pride in how they at least broke Nod.

The two Kane factions meeting on the other hand...

I can see that going much better and also completely disastrously. Because one was only saved by a miracle at the hands of their Messiah. The other was saved by Kane yes. But on their own terms, proving themselves a peer, if a lesser one, to GDI as a whole.
Canon Nod probably goes a lot deeper into the religious element of things. Meanwhile our Nod is unlikely to lose the reverence of tiberium as 'the great catalyst of change' but... A lot more of a religious-yet-secular society, much closer to the kind of thing that Kane in our 'canon' history was hoping to push humanity into developing.
Also, I can just see the two Kanes meeting up, comparing notes and going...

Q-Kane: "Okay, so your situation was just completely FUBAR. But at least you seemed to have competent helpers. "
C-Kane: "And you on the other hand got a very beneficial situation regarding GDI... But incompetent helpers in the most painful way possible. Even Stahl needing to have his hand held through anything touching on politics or diplomacy..."
Both Kanes: "And then there's fucking GIDEON!"
 
Sorry about the lack of updates everyone. Working an excessively long week this week, and most of it is actually work, rather than sitting around waiting for something to happen, so I have not had the time/energy to get the update out. It is mostly done, just need to actually sit down and finish it.
 
So there was a bit of a back-and-forth on the Discord regarding what our 'Next Gen' robots might be like, augments and such which... Basically is just revisiting stuff that I'm pretty sure has been talked a bunch about even here in the thread before. But it put a hilarious idea in my head that I typed up, and then elaborated on and uh... Well, I felt like it was worth bringing over here. Especially the last bit.

Except they didn't break NOD in canon? NOD is still around and causing plenty of trouble all over the planet in canon?
 
So, GDI has been using a 6.5mm round basically from the 2030s on. The GD3 is keeping more or less the GD2 round, and adding a grenade launcher over top.
Would the GD-M3 be our standard Ground Force Zone Armor weapon going forward, or will ZOCOM's infantry railguns remain the standard?

For that matter, is the GD-M3 exclusively an automatic grenade launcher or does it retain the 6.5mm rifle/machine gun as a 'co-ax'?
 
Sorry about the lack of updates everyone. Working an excessively long week this week, and most of it is actually work, rather than sitting around waiting for something to happen, so I have not had the time/energy to get the update out. It is mostly done, just need to actually sit down and finish it.
Hey, you gave us a pretty sweet update post and it wasn't that long ago.

You really shouldn't beat yourself up, not if there's any real amount of refiguring and rethinking and added content at all to go into the turn post. And I'm sure there is, because just the idea of deciding which projects get the alloy bonus gives me a splitting headache. @_@

Nobody's gonna blame.
 
Hey, you gave us a pretty sweet update post and it wasn't that long ago.

You really shouldn't beat yourself up, not if there's any real amount of refiguring and rethinking and added content at all to go into the turn post. And I'm sure there is, because just the idea of deciding which projects get the alloy bonus gives me a splitting headache. @_@

Nobody's gonna blame.
Not beating myself up, just an update on where things stand. Honestly, with the alloy bonus, it was a matter of going over it with Rakhun, and throwing numbers at a spreadsheet. That was pretty quick and dirty.

Would the GD-M3 be our standard Ground Force Zone Armor weapon going forward, or will ZOCOM's infantry railguns remain the standard?

For that matter, is the GD-M3 exclusively an automatic grenade launcher or does it retain the 6.5mm rifle/machine gun as a 'co-ax'?
So, Infantry Railguns are the standard, and will remain the standard basically forever. The -M3 is really just an automatic grenade launcher, and does not have a co-ax, primarily due to belt management issues.
 
Except they didn't break NOD in canon? NOD is still around and causing plenty of trouble all over the planet in canon?
Considering the state that GDI is in during the intro cinematic, it strongly implies that whilst Kane might be doing well himself, Nod itself is unlikely to be doing any better than GDI. Most likely worse because Nod's always been more vulnerable to tiberium mutation eating away at their infrastructure, industry and population. Pair that with the fact that, despite the very strong anti-Cyborg emphasis Nod picks up due to CABAL's rebellion, C&C4 Nod's military is extremely cyborg heavy which just so happens to be one of the 'simpler' ways of protecting against extreme tiberium exposure's lethal side effects?

Well, GDI in C&C4 does not appear to have gone for a very strong space colonisation effort or they'd be a lot less concerned about how much tiberium's consumed the planet. They definitely did not put anywhere near the effort we did into anti-tiberium efforts as a priority. Which just leaves the explanation that @Ithillid went with for this quest. That being the 'canonical' path for GDI is choosing the 'tiberium abatement' path at the start of the quest but focusing on crushing Nod so they can be free to focus on tiberium abatement afterwards.

The squid has said in this thread I believe that if we'd gone down that path, we absolutely would have been able to break Nod as a rival power (at least for a generation or two) particularly when paired with tiberium's mutation wreaking havoc on everyone. It just means that we'd have been lagging behind on the anti-tiberium effort particularly when you remove just how much income and tiberium abatement our Glacier Mines gave. They also didn't get 'lucky' by having tiberium's non-stop mutation rampage roll high for the delay between mutations right at the start leaving them in a much worse place.

Note that I'm not saying Nod is dead. Because it very much isn't. But Nod as a whole was probably left with the military and military-associated industrial capable of only a single Warlord from the quest Post-Regency War. Probably not the Indian Warlords or maybe even Stahl as that 'one Warlord' either. As for how can that be when Nod has rebuilt so well by the time of C&C4?

Well, we don't actually see how strong each side is in-verse as a whole at that time. Indeed, the Crawler strategy suggests they probably are much weaker than you'd think otherwise because whilst it is an evolution of the 'Mobile Base' from the earlier C&C games, the way it's such a focus of both sides suggests that they both have had to make the majority of their military being the 'rapid reaction forces' that crawlers are optimised for. With only a handful of garrisons for the most critical of sites.

Compare that to us where we do have a fair few 'rapid reaction forces' which can mobilise to push an offensive or relocate to defend an endangered frontline. But the majority of our forces are either garrisons or 'frontline' standard forces who protect a given region from enemy incursions. Yet aren't meant to be suddenly pulled out, thrown halfway across the planet on a redeployment with less than a month's notice in order to strengthen that region.

I'll admit to there being some assumptions in here, along with predictions and analysis of what's suggested but not stated. However I don't believe it's inaccurate enough to discount the probability that canon 2062 Nod was in such dire straits that it was only seven to eight years after the treaty was organised and construction of the TCN begun that the Nod Rebellion had built up enough strength to be a serious danger to either GDI or Kane.

Particularly as Nod rebels are mentioned as having attempted to delay the TCN construction effort but the way it's worded doesn't suggest they had any real success. Yet any one Major Warlord of Post-Regency War strength, even Gideon before the last quarter's 'incident', would have had enough strength to serious effect the TCN construction effort in their zone. Even if they got crushed when GDI and Kane's splinter of Nod fell on them. Yet we've been told (I think in here as well) that it was multiple of the Major Warlords we've been dealing with that Ithillid regards as having 'canonically' rebelled against Kane.
 
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Nod's attempt to prevent construction of the TCN was a global conflict that lasted over a decade and began more or less the instant that Kane gave GDI the necessary technology.

Notably this wasn't even all of Nod fighting, just those who broke with Kane.

cnc.fandom.com

Incursion War

The Incursion War[1] (also known as Tiberium Control Network Conflict or TCN Conflict) was fought between GDI and anti-Kane Nod Separatists in the period between the Third and Fourth Tiberium Wars. The main point of conflict was the far-flung Tiberium Control Network (TCN) that was under...
 
So. Since the next turn post is probably at least approaching completion from the sound of it- not necessarily tomorrow, but progress is progressing, I'm going to throw another draft out there.

I'm going to propose that we do something a bit controversial and put an AA die on Wadmalaw Kudzu Phase 3 even in the full knowledge that it'll autocomplete. Why? Because if it autocompletes in Q4, then we don't get the +1 bonus to all dice during Q4, whereas we could get it this way. I'm willing to spend an AA die and 10 R to get +1 on literally every die we roll in a whole turn.

I'm also dumping a ton of dice into vertical farms, for reasons already discussed. To summarize, we're going to need a thicker margin of surplus on Food, both to support the dairy ranches, and to support notional food exports as a diplomatic tool for getting influence with the Asian Nod warlords as has been alluded to. Vertical Farms Stage 3+4+5 is going to be necessary to hit our Plan targets anyway, so we might as well lean into that, is how I figure it.

Again, there's nothing compulsive about this, I'm not claiming to be a planning super-genius or anything, nobody has to do anything. But this is what I think makes sense.



(General note: All project success probabilities are computed without factoring in the alloy foundries, so some projects will have better odds than the draft plan suggests)

(Other general note: This plan is really heavily distorted by aggressively leaning into the alloy foundries in hopes of completing Phase 2 of the project. There are a lot of other things we could do instead, but the discretionary budget is pretty firmly dropped on that, leaving only the minimum reasonable 10-20 R/die budget for other projects. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO DO THIS. I welcome them, I respect them, I'm not actually welded to the idea of six dice on the alloy foundries, but it's a popular project a lot of people want, and I respect that too)

BUDGET: 1150 R

1140/1150 R

[] 2062Q3 Draft Plan Attempting to Alloy The Wingmen, With Pavlova.
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +36 bonus, 65 R)
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 (1 die, 15 R) (80% chance)
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) 0/150 (2 dice, 30 R) (81% chance)
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 0/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (39% chance)
-[] Heavy Industry (6/6 Dice + 3 Free dice, +33 bonus, 290 R)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 2) 116/600 (6 dice, 240 R) (67% chance)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 (1 die, 10 R) (24% chance)
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 (2 dice, 40 R) (96% chance)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 Dice, +23 bonus, 90 R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 (1 die, 20 R) (1/16.5 median)
--[] Carbon Nanotube Foundry Expansions 0/300 (3 dice, 60 R) (11% chance)
---[] Some people may want to use these three dice to just beeline Reykjavik
---[] That is a valid option and I respect that. I'm just greedy for Capital Goods.
--[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants (New) 0/100 (1 die, 10 R) (72% chance)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 + AA Dice, +28 bonus, 100 R)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 430/450 (AA die, 10 R) (95% chance)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3+4) 74/480 (6 dice, 90 R) (Stage 3, 87% chance Stage 4, 1% chance Stage 5)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 Dice, +38 bonus, 125 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 4+5) 65/365? (4 dice, 80 R) (Stage 4, 88% Stage 5)
--[] Intensification of GZ Harvesting (Stage 8) 4/100 (1 die, 15 R) (58% chance)
--[] Improved H-G Processing Refits 0/??? (1 die, budgeting 30 R) (???)
--[] Security Review
-[] Orbital (7 + 4 Free dice + EREWHON!!!, +33 bonus, 250 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) 50/410 (4 dice, 80 R) (Phase 2, 56% chance Phase 3)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 (6+E dice, 140 R) (99.2% chance)
--[] Conestoga Class Development 0/60 (1 die, 30 R) (94% chance)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +31 bonus, 60 R)
--[] -1 die for AEVAtime
--[] AEVA Deployment (Services) 0/200 (3 dice, 60 R) (88% chance)
---[] A major reason I'm doing AEVA this turn is because it's a cheap way to activate all Service dice.
---[] If some new 10-15 R/die projects appear (and I'm surprised they haven't), then that would change things here.
-[] Military (8/8 Dice, +30 bonus, 160 R)
--[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 91%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4+5) 155/360 (2 dice, 40 R) (Phase 4, 25% Phase 5)
--[] Buckler Shield Development 0/100 (1 die, 20 R) (51% chance)
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +28 bonus)
--[] Tiberium Security Review (2 dice)
--[] Administrative Assistance: Wadmalaw Kudzu (2 dice)
 
I'm going to propose that we do something a bit controversial and put an AA die on Wadmalaw Kudzu Phase 3
Not the worst way to use an AA if we dont need the R elsewhere and dont need the dice in bureau, bonuses are always nice and they add up. Likewsie getting service AEVA online makes our service section better, ticks off a plan goal and means that if we do AEVA elsewhere it goes to 91% on 3 dice so less chance of idiling a die in a different category, even if I expect there to be a bit before we do any other AEVA to make sure we have the cap goods to cover that and other demands. I think though I would rather do the plasma deployment for the talons if you can afford it, looking to put more stuff into action instead of just dev. Shala and Columbia push are good picks as well as we need both done.

Also full agree on vert farming- increasing our food surplus in prep for dairy farms while also adding more food consumer goods (which is a plan goal) .

Also yeah another phase of alloy foundries makes me happy. And yeah not including the phase 1 factory discount until we know for sure which projects gets them means we get pleasant surprises
 
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[] 2062Q3 Draft Plan Attempting to Alloy The Wingmen, With Pavlova.
I'm feeling that trying for alloys heavily depends on how it affects orbital stuff.

On the other hand, they definitely apply discounts to a lot, they are in high demand with a limited supply AND it's tiberium resistant which adds a ton of value to them. It's probably worth going for them even if they have only a small impact on orbital.

And I'm not enthusiastic about putting all 6 agriculture dice on vertical farms. I would definitely prefer 1 or 2 in poulticeplants or some such.

But none of that's a deal breaker. Everything else looks great.

I'm assuming if wingmen complete a phase, next turn focuses on laser refits?
 
So to clarify, in the Agricultural section, which ones increase food variety/quality again? I'm just mainly going by flavor text and thought that putting some dice there along with mechanization would increase both quantity and quality but I know that it will take dice elsewhere.
 
So to clarify, in the Agricultural section, which ones increase food variety/quality again? I'm just mainly going by flavor text and thought that putting some dice there along with mechanization would increase both quantity and quality but I know that it will take dice elsewhere.
There was actually a bit of a argument about that recently.

But effectively food increases food supply, and consumer goods in agriculture tends to increase food quality and variety.
 
So to clarify, in the Agricultural section, which ones increase food variety/quality again? I'm just mainly going by flavor text and thought that putting some dice there along with mechanization would increase both quantity and quality but I know that it will take dice elsewhere.
Well, one way to look at it is that we've done 6 phases of Aquaponics and only 3 phases of Vertical Farming. Which suggests that we could do with more Vertical Farming. (For reference, Perennials is at phase 4, with no phase 5 available yet. Possibly because we are waiting for phase 4 to mature to full production.)
Not great by itself, but we also know that Vertical Farming produces eggs and chicken, and as of the last update we had in universe about what people are eating, those are not widely available yet.
Mechanization doesn't appear to produce anything specific, so I assume it is a force multiplier on everything we are producing.
 
And I'm not enthusiastic about putting all 6 agriculture dice on vertical farms. I would definitely prefer 1 or 2 in poulticeplants or some such.
Well, I'm not saying "no," but it depends on the R/die cost of the project. I wouldn't object to something like four dice on Vertical Farms Phase 3+4 and two on Poulticeplant Plantations, if we can fund it.

I'm assuming if wingmen complete a phase, next turn focuses on laser refits?
Uh, probably I think? It's been a while since I considered that and I've kind of lost track of what I had in mind. Based on some of the most recent points made by the Navy in (I think) the 2062Q2 Results post, we might want to go for Seattle next instead of the laser refits.
 
I find myself strangely concerned with a lack of Tiberium Inhibitors. We always need more funding of course, but with the underground being so bad a few in some Blue Zones over the next year would sooth my mind.

I'm also not crazy about going so hard at Vertical Farms, would like to either finish Mechanization or get started on Dairy Farms, but I can see the logic and it's not a deal breaker.
 
Well, I'm not saying "no," but it depends on the R/die cost of the project. I wouldn't object to something like four dice on Vertical Farms Phase 3+4 and two on Poulticeplant Plantations, if we can fund it.
Flipside is we had a -3 to food from pop growth last turn and need to save up food for dairy farms, 2 phases of vert farms is 8 food and 8 cons good, which if we get the -3 again is 1 below covering 2 dairy farms., and just short of 3 without the -3 food going to 4 dice drops the chance for the 4th phase to 10%.

I find myself strangely concerned with a lack of Tiberium Inhibitors. We always need more funding of course, but with the underground being so bad a few in some Blue Zones over the next year would sooth my mind.

I'm also not crazy about going so hard at Vertical Farms, would like to either finish Mechanization or get started on Dairy Farms, but I can see the logic and it's not a deal breaker.
Mechanization does take up a cap good, so not spending there lets us instead spend it on stuff like vein mines which helps somewhat with underground tib. I do imagine that after vein mines in Q3, Q4 we can do 1 inhibitor, 1 dice on refits and the rest on vein mines and keep that going until something else pops up
 
So Vert farms, then Dairy Farms?
Possibly, With mechanisation between them?
We should complete all of that in 3, maybe 4 quarters, right?
 
So Vert farms, then Dairy Farms?
Possibly, With mechanisation between them?
We should complete all of that in 3, maybe 4 quarters, right?

Statistically, yes.

We have 6 dice a turn. It would take ~8 dice for 3 phases of vert farms, ~8 dice for the 3 phases of dairy farms, and ~3 for the Agri Mech for a total of ~19 dice, just over 3 turns worth on average.
 
I like to get the department of refits going combined with several projects that will result in refits, like the Governor-A Development that will have us refit the existing ships.
Other projects i would do are Next Generation Armored Support Vehicles instead of zone armor so we have vehicles that can are designed to work with zone armor and Combat Laser Development as that might be another refit the department can roll out and i want them for the next gen tanks i hope to do next turn.

--[] Department of Refits -1 Mil die -30 RpT auto
--[] Governor A Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 (4 dice, 80 R) (85% chance)
--[] Next-Generation Armored Support Vehicles (New) 0/80 1 die 25R 71%
--[] Combat Laser Development 0/80 1 die 25R 71%
 
I think that it would be best if we finish the Mechanization, and Dairy Farms first before adding more Vertical Farming for more variety.

240x3=720 is 12 Food and 12 FoodCon goods

250+600= 750 12 Foods and 18 FoodCon

For 30+ progress we get additional 6 foodcon. Excluding other cost like food, labor and energy.
 
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