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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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There will be a bit of a delay for social reasons. A lot of the not 'Space nerds' will find the concept of moving to live off world a difficult concept to process.
They are not going to quickly get to 'hey, we can have kids that will have a future'. Because in some ways this will reinforce the feeling that they are living on a dying world.

We can't expect any quick results from space population, and we can't even expect a space population to be enough for many people to consider having children. However, there are other directions we can look in to help the fertility rate. And we can work on those in parallel.
At risk of exacerbating thread heat, improved food quality is a good driver for fertility rates. Along with stability/security of living/work conditions. When conditions are better, we may need to look at whether we need some sort of social scheme or advertising to increase fertility as well, as problematic as such things are. The setting is unfortunately apocalyptic. :/
 
Simon_Jester said:
Some people are very touchy on the food quality subject; we've had rounds of hyperbole and hostility connected to it.
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Oh, sure.

I just don't know why just saying "improved food can increase fertility rates" would cause a problem.

Though, to be fair, I never understood the food hostility at all so there might be something I'm missing. We have constantly been improving food supply and variety and have no intention of stopping so... what's the problem?

Ah well.
 
K von Carstein said:
Of all the subjects to be heated about, I wouldn't have expected food to be one.
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I do like hot meals. Makes sense to me.

bigking321 said:
Though, to be fair, I never understood the food hostility at all so there might be something I'm missing. We have constantly been improving food supply and variety and have no intention of stopping so... what's the problem?
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People are passionate about different projects in the Agriculture sector. And with how tight we've been with dice there over the years, many people are impatient about wanting to get X done asap.
Unfortunately, X is different for different people.
Which shouldn't really make people hostile to each other, but this thread has a tendency to overheat for no logical reason.
Should clear up relatively quickly now we have more dice locked to Agriculture.
 
What would the hypothetical 'Get everyone into space now' plan look like anyway? Considering the cost of one station with maybe 2500 residents I'd imagine we'd have to literally strip mine all of our territory to fund it. and nothing but that.

The Space plan requires a lot of set up that honestly goes hand in hand with what we are currently doing anyway. Do we have space farms ready to feed people? What about storage and logistics. We might need to make a leopard fleet just for moving food around everyday.
 
HousePet said:
Unfortunately, X is different for different people.
Which shouldn't really make people hostile to each other, but this thread has a tendency to overheat for no logical reason.
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It's the internet. And as a person who is passionate about those projects, it makes perfect sense to me.

However, I have no desire to go over all of that again. Instead, I shall let my vote speak for itself.
 
Image said:
What would the hypothetical 'Get everyone into space now' plan look like anyway? Considering the cost of one station with maybe 2500 residents I'd imagine we'd have to literally strip mine all of our territory to fund it. and nothing but that.
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The core assumption we've been making about how that would look is that Columbia is super-expensive because it's a custom-built prototype where we're trying to get everything just right. Remember that Progress costs of a project aren't always strictly a measure of how much material stuff is being done; they're often a measure of just how much of a pain in the ass the project is for the administrative resources of the Treasury.

Research projects are nearly always low-Progress because Treasury's basically just cutting a check to a bunch of scientists and saying "good luck have fun."

A giant global network of aggregate plants to make literally crushed gravel was like 200 Progress back in the early 2050s. By contrast, a single factory producing something like isolinear chips at Anadyr was 320 Progress. Why? Because getting a bunch of gravel-making machinery set up is a standardized, conceptually straightforward task, whereas Anadyr required a lot of fiddliness and micromanagement.

So the expectation is that after Columbia we'd see second and third-generation habitation projects where the cost requirements to house 1000 people would drop exponentially until we got to the "oh shit find lunar lava tubes and fill them with people really fast" level, by which point we could conceivably be throwing millions of people into space per turn. And in the evacuation pathway we'd have started doing this right away in the early 2050s, whereas in the quest's timeline we didn't really get serious about space station construction until 2055 or so and even then it was kind of an extra.
 
Cerazor said:
Uh, too bad so sad?


View: https://youtu.be/TrDWiSWyKxY
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Well that was dumber than I thought it was. Sci-Fi writers have no sense of scale is very much in play there and it is not in play in this quest. Even if a colony drop got past GDI's Superweapon arsenal, which is a big if, the station itself wouldn't do that amount of damage as a Lagrange Point Space Station is limited by the size of said Lagrange point and wouldn't be big enough to cause such damage.

Even the asteroid that finished off the dinosaurs had to hit a critical success and hit a place on Earth that was basically made of sulfuric acid at the moment of impact which resulted in catastrophic rapid climate change.

K von Carstein said:
Which série does it come from?🙂
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Gundam Origin. Gundam is basically the mecha space opera anime with all the good and bad that implies.
 
Dmol8 said:
Well that was dumber than I thought it was. Sci-Fi writers have no sense of scale is very much in play there and it is not in play in this quest. Even if a colony drop got past GDI's Superweapon arsenal, which is a big if, the station itself wouldn't do that amount of damage as a Lagrange Point Space Station is limited by the size of said Lagrange point and wouldn't be big enough to cause such damage.

Even the asteroid that finished off the dinosaurs had to hit a critical success and hit a place on Earth that was basically made of sulfuric acid at the moment of impact which resulted in catastrophic rapid climate change.
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The op was referential humour. There is no arguement here, you are dying on a hill being being stormed by yourself. I'm not indulging you.
 
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Dmol8 said:
a Lagrange Point Space Station is limited by the size of said Lagrange point and wouldn't be big enough to cause such damage.
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You don't seem to realize that the type of station depicted was designed and built to inhabit the Earth-Moon L4-5 Lagrange points which are each around the size of the Moon if not bigger.
Article:
According to the new findings, each Kordylewski cloud is about 15 by 10 degrees wide, or equal to 30 by 20 lunar disks in the night sky. This translates to an area in space about 65,000 by 45,000 miles in actual size—nearly nine times wider than Earth.
 
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Voidseer said:
You don't seem to realize that the type of station depicted was designed and built to inhabit the Earth-Moon L4-5 Lagrange points which are each around the size of the Moon if not bigger.
Article:
According to the new findings, each Kordylewski cloud is about 15 by 10 degrees wide, or equal to 30 by 20 lunar disks in the night sky. This translates to an area in space about 65,000 by 45,000 miles in actual size—nearly nine times wider than Earth.
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.... that didn't look anywhere close to as wide as earth.... -_-
 
Cerazor said:
The op was referential humour. There is no arguement here, you are dying on a hill being being stormed by yourself. I'm not indulging you.
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LOL It was a joke is not a good argument.

Voidseer said:
You don't seem to realize that the type of station depicted was designed and built to inhabit the Earth-Moon L4-5 Lagrange points which are each around the size of the Moon if not bigger.
Article:
According to the new findings, each Kordylewski cloud is about 15 by 10 degrees wide, or equal to 30 by 20 lunar disks in the night sky. This translates to an area in space about 65,000 by 45,000 miles in actual size—nearly nine times wider than Earth.
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Yes, but the station itself is also an O'Neill cylinder which is 5 miles/8 km in diameter and 20 miles/32 km in length mostly hollow tube that is built to house people inside it so comparing it to the Chicxulub impactor is fair game.

I was wrong on the size of the L4-5 Lagrange Edit: points. I was thinking about the size of the O'Neill cylinders and wrote the Lagrange Edit: points instead. My bad.

Also hey @Ithillid can we use our orbital cleanup technologies to set up mining stations in the Kordylevski Clouds?

Edit: Lagrange points not Lagrange Points. I can remember what an impactor is, but can't remember how to spell Lagrane points. :facepalm:
 
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Dmol8 said:
LOL It was a joke is not a good argument.
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An arguement? I guess making a sarcastic remark with an allusion to how sending people to space colonies didn't end so well in Gundam means I'm arguing that'll happen now. So I guess you win dmol! You win the game you started and dragged me into I guess. Theres a prize too!

Anyway. I'm going to bed. I'll be excited to see what we can expand on soon from those orbital cleanups. Maybe some cool statellite gadgets.
 
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Gundam colonies are not relevant to this quest. Can you please drop it? 🥁

Simon_Jester said:
The core assumption we've been making about how that would look is that Columbia is super-expensive because it's a custom-built prototype where we're trying to get everything just right. Remember that Progress costs of a project aren't always strictly a measure of how much material stuff is being done; they're often a measure of just how much of a pain in the ass the project is for the administrative resources of the Treasury.

Research projects are nearly always low-Progress because Treasury's basically just cutting a check to a bunch of scientists and saying "good luck have fun."

A giant global network of aggregate plants to make literally crushed gravel was like 200 Progress back in the early 2050s. By contrast, a single factory producing something like isolinear chips at Anadyr was 320 Progress. Why? Because getting a bunch of gravel-making machinery set up is a standardized, conceptually straightforward task, whereas Anadyr required a lot of fiddliness and micromanagement.

So the expectation is that after Columbia we'd see second and third-generation habitation projects where the cost requirements to house 1000 people would drop exponentially until we got to the "oh shit find lunar lava tubes and fill them with people really fast" level, by which point we could conceivably be throwing millions of people into space per turn. And in the evacuation pathway we'd have started doing this right away in the early 2050s, whereas in the quest's timeline we didn't really get serious about space station construction until 2055 or so and even then it was kind of an extra.
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Yeah, the message we have been getting is that the first stations are very expensive compared to future ones, because they are testbeds and also setting up the needed infrastructure for more. And especially once we get lunar cities prototyped, we will likely be quite happy we did the Fusion Shipyard bay, so as to have enough lift capacity to bring people to fill them. (I hope.)
 
Lightwhispers said:
Yeah, the message we have been getting is that the first stations are very expensive compared to future ones, because they are testbeds and also setting up the needed infrastructure for more. And especially once we get lunar cities prototyped, we will likely be quite happy we did the Fusion Shipyard bay, so as to have enough lift capacity to bring people to fill them. (I hope.)
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Yes, I hope we will start investing the dice into building the bays soonish.
 
My plan has the Gravitic Shipyard Bay for this turn because of our need to start working on developing Gravitic Ships as soon as possible, but I can swap those 5 Dice to the Fusion Bay if people would prefer that one.
 
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