But the way of things seems to be peace and harmony with Nod, which I dont like, but I dont have to like everything.
No problem.

Initiative First will probably try and leave GDI eventually after all the outreach and negotiations with nod while we've gone out of our way to make sure they get no support from us. I'm pretty sure they will end up being our version of Cerburus.

So that will be another enemy to fight after the Nod peace treaty or whatever.

In addition to the Scrin by Jupiter.

And some nod holdouts will probably keep fighting. Or maybe join Cerburus after feeling betrayed by Kane?

Whatever. My point is there will be plenty of people to fight.

Oh! We have AI. That means the Mass Effect people will probably come at us as well. At least in the beginning.
 
Haven't put a Plan together for ages. Brace yourselves!
With so many unknowns, I've just focussed on the knowns.

[] Plan: Industrial Tech for a Picnic in Karachi
-[] Infrastructure: 5/5 Dice, 90 R
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 1 die 15R 80%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 22/250 3 dice 75R 82%
--[] Security Review: Infrastructure 1 Die
-[] Heavy Industry: 6/6 Dice, 100 R
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 2 dice 40R 96%
--[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 0/120 2 dice 40R 96%
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 2 dice 20R 91%
-[] Light and Chemical Industry: 5/5 Dice, 90 R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 4 dice 80R 4/16 median
--[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants 33/100 1 die 10R 72%
-[] Agriculture: 8/6 Dice, 135 R
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 3 dice 45R 70%
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3) 74/240 2 dice 30R 56%
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 40R 26%
--[] Tarberry Development 0/40 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Tiberium: 7/7 Dice, 120 R
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 5+6) 60/390 4 dice 80R 75%
--[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 2 dice 40R 70%
--[] Security Review: Tiberium
-[] Orbital: 10+E/7 Dice, 230 R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 5 dice 100R 60%
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 2+3) 50/410 4+E dice 100R 67%
--[] Conestoga Class Development 0/60 1 die 30R 94%
-[] Services: 4/4 Dice, 90 R
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 213/300 2 dice 50R 99%
--[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/250 2 dice 40R 57%
-[] Military: 10/8 Dice, 280 R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 3 dice 60R 37%
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4) 147/180 1 die 40R 100%
--[] Infernium Laser Refits 0/450 5 dice 150R 31%
--[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 die 30R 66%
-[] Bureaucracy: 2/4 Dice, 0 R
--[] Security Review: Tiberium 1 Die
--[] Security Review: Infrastructure 1 Die
--[] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 Die
--[] Interdepartmental Favors: 1 Die
---[] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons by the end of 2062: +5 Political Support
---[] Air Force: Deploy all Orca Wingman Drones before the end of this plan: +5 Political Support

7/7 Free Dice
1/1 Erewhon Die
1135/1150 R

Infrastructure:
Finish those experimental arcologies, run a security review, and make more zoomy things for keeping our Logistics above 0.
Heavy Industry:
Whether or not we continue with Alloy Foundries, we should get out other techs out of the way first. We need to know what they do. And I see no point dragging things out to potentially save one die with this, so I'm not slow walking them.
Finishing Personal Electric Vehicles also distracts from some Tib Mad Science as well helping with Logistics.
Light and Chemical Industry:
Going for the Macrospinner, as we need it done. And we may as well finish the furniture. (Although I'm not sure who would be showing off artificial wood furniture to impress people...)
Agriculture:
We can actually all the Foods. Let's all the Foods! Tarberries so that we can see how it compares, instead of just arguing about it.
Orbital:
Sprawling Sky Stations.
And time for the Conestoga. SCED peeps need a new toy.
Services:
Labs and Hospitals. We could go down to 1 die on the Hospitals if another project looks worth starting, but I intend to get both phases done soon anyway.
Military:
This is about getting those long lead time things rolling now, so that they are semi-functional for a Karachi push next year. If we delay any longer, we don't have any Orca Wingmen ready in time. And it might still be a stretch to get enough laser refits done in time as well. We do this now, or we do not have them for Karachi.
Also Plasma Cannon. Cos it makes the Steel Talons very happy.
Bureaucrazy:
May as well cash in on free PS coupons. We'll likely need to Mad Science some stuff later on.
I've also used the remaining die on the InOps boost. We should recover that from Vein Mining this coming turn anyway. Better intel before Karachi would be helpful. But if people are really unhappy with it, I don't mind it being something else.
 
Well yeah; what I'm getting at is that I think just giving people very generous options to stay home and care for children in their own families would probably be more effective than "oh hey you can have a nursebot!"
I agree, but that hasn't come up as a voting option. Granted, nursebots also aren't on the voting table yet, but they've been brought up in the update. I tend to think about what's been put in front of me.
1) In a lot of roles, not-so-Forgotten volunteers can supplement ZOCOM in the shallow Red Zones, but that isn't quite the same as replacing them.

2) I didn't mention this before, but it should be noted that these not-so-Forgotten baby boom kids are still... little kids. By the time they're old enough to be carrying guns and escorting tiberium harvesters, this issue will have resolved itself because we'll have a lot more trained power armor operators, including more trainers, plus it'll be 2-3 whole Four Year Plans from now and we'll have like 18-24 Zone Armor factories. We're dealing with a short-term lack of trained personnel, one that really shouldn't be entangled with long-term demographic trends directly.
I'll have to go back and check then, as I thought they were just like, around like eight to ten, not toddlers. In which case you are correct.
3) My experience with "my dude" and other similar formulations is that people online never say it to you unless they have no respect for you whatsoever. I'm guessing that wasn't what you meant to communicate. If it was what you meant to communicate, you can just put me on Ignore, you know that?
My apologies then. I meant it as a friendly jab at worst. We don't always a agree, but I do like you well enough, and I find your input valuable.
 
Regarding Gideon, I wonder if Stahl saw an opportunity and took it or was it done on Kane's orders? Or is it both?
I doubt Stahl would have risked doing it without Kane's tacit permission, simply because Kane has recently taken a more active hand in the Brotherhood's broad strategic direction, and Stahl would have a very short life expectancy if he ever made Kane mad.

But Kane may have indicated his tacit permission rather indirectly, or he may have ordered action directly. Hard to say. He doesn't seem to have 'gone public' endorsing Stahl's takeover, though, from the sound of it.

To be fair, Stahl's support from Kane hinges almost entirely on his ability to deliver results, so Kane may not even want to do any favors to Stahl. Stahl standing on his own is in some ways the point, and hell, Stahl may have his own pride about succeeding at what he does without having to beg for help (looking at you, Reynaldo!)

I agree, but that hasn't come up as a voting option. Granted, nursebots also aren't on the voting table yet, but they've been brought up in the update. I tend to think about what's been put in front of me.

I'll have to go back and check then, as I thought they were just like, around like eight to ten, not toddlers. In which case you are correct.
Well, logically, these kids have to have been born some time after we started shipping aid to the Forgotten. I don't recall exactly when that was, but it was more like 2053-54.

So we'd be seeing a Forgotten baby boom starting around 2054-55, and the children would still be in the upper single digits of age, probably with more continuing to be born because baby booms don't stop instantly.

But the thing is, we're not gonna use the Forgotten as child soldiers if we can help it, not on a large and deliberate scale. So we're not really going to be able to recruit them as troops until some time in the 2070s, by which point our immediate issues with power armor and ZOCOM and whatnot just aren't going to be relevant. The situation will have changed, and we'll have other/new problems.

My apologies then. I meant it as a friendly jab at worst. We don't always a agree, but I do like you well enough, and I find your input valuable.
Sorry. It's just... a style I've seen used with a history.

"My brother in Christ" is the most sour note of them all, coming as it so often does from people who seem pretty firmly atheist. But I get you and let's not worry about it. You and me, we cool. :)
 
Heavy Industry:
Whether or not we continue with Alloy Foundries, we should get out other techs out of the way first. We need to know what they do. And I see no point dragging things out to potentially save one die with this, so I'm not slow walking them.
Finishing Personal Electric Vehicles also distracts from some Tib Mad Science as well helping with Logistics.

OK. Then why are you not doing Microfusion?:

-[] Heavy Industry: 6/6 Dice, 100 R
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 2 dice 40R 96%
--[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 0/120 2 dice 40R 96%
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 2 dice 20R 91%
 
Now I'm wondering if Kane is starting to clean house in preparation for his public return.

To be honest, I think this is unlikely because it is not yet the right time for Kane to show himself in public again.
On the one hand, his negotiating position is not very good, as the general situation is not yet bad enough to get all the concessions he wants from the GDI, and on the other hand, the Brotherhood of NOD has emerged weakened from the last war started by the warlords and needs time to regain its former strength.
I personally believe that Stahl simply saw the perfect moment to eliminate a local rival and consolidate his control over the Brotherhood in the Americas.
He, unlike Gideon, had a track record and could certainly convince one or two of Gideon's subordinates that he was the better choice to lead the local Brotherhood forces.
And as we all know power shifts quickly in the Brotherhood.
 
OK. Then why are you not doing Microfusion?:
Tried moving stuff around, and ran into budget constraints. :/
But then realised that I'd miscounted the ZA Factory cost. :)
(And somehow written Columbia twice, instead of Shala. :S )
How does this look now?

[] Plan: Industrial Tech for a Picnic in Karachi
-[] Infrastructure: 5/5 Dice, 100 R
--[] Communal Blue Zone Arcologies 328/400 1 die 15R 80%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 22/250 3 dice 75R 82%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 0/200 1 die 10R 1/2.5 median
-[] Heavy Industry: 7/6 Dice, 120 R
--[] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development 0/120 2 dice 40R 96%
--[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 0/120 2 dice 40R 96%
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 175/300 2 dice 20R 91%
--[] Microfusion Cell Development 0/60 1 die 20R 94%
-[] Light and Chemical Industry: 5/5 Dice, 90 R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 4 dice 80R 4/16 median
--[] Artificial Wood Furniture Plants 33/100 1 die 10R 72%
-[] Agriculture: 7+AA/6 Dice, 135 R
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 2+AA dice 45R 49%
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 3) 74/240 2 dice 30R 56%
--[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 40R 26%
--[] Tarberry Development 0/40 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Tiberium: 7/7 Dice, 120 R
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 5+6) 60/390 4 dice 80R 75%
--[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 2 dice 40R 70%
--[] Security Review: Tiberium
-[] Orbital: 10+E/7 Dice, 230 R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 4) 138/555 5 dice 100R 60%
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 2+3) 50/410 4+E dice 100R 67%
--[] Conestoga Class Development 0/60 1 die 30R 94%
-[] Services: 4/4 Dice, 90 R
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 213/300 2 dice 50R 99%
--[] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories 79/250 2 dice 40R 57%
-[] Military: 10/8 Dice, 260 R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 1) 0/275 3 dice 60R 37%
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 4) 147/180 1 die 20R 100%
--[] Infernium Laser Refits 0/450 5 dice 150R 31%
--[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 die 30R 66%
-[] Bureaucracy: 4/4 Dice, 0 R
--[] Security Review: Tiberium 1 Die
--[] Administrative Assistance 2 die: Agri Mech
--[] Interdepartmental Favors: 1 Die
---[] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons by the end of 2062: +5 Political Support
---[] Air Force: Deploy all Orca Wingman Drones before the end of this plan: +5 Political Support

7/7 Free Dice
1/1 Erewhon Die
1145/1150 R
 
Also, Gideon was consistently wasting forces and resources on attacking GDI.

It wasn't just the great big movements; he obviously did quite some frontline skirmishing before, during and after the Regecy War. Kane did slightly hint that he'd prefer if Nod stopped constantly trying to hit GDI on the military side and started aiming towards rebuilding its industrial capabilites while keeping GDI off balance with actions targeted at GDI political stability.
 
Sorry. It's just... a style I've seen used with a history.
No need for an apology, though it is appreciated. I'm happy to be cool here, and hope to one day progress towards chums.

To give my two creds, I think Stahl killing Gideon is good for us in the short term, but possibly very bad in the long run.

Right now Gideon is out of the picture, and with goes the constant, low level raids on North American BZs. Stahl is also a lot more stable and reasonable, so he's very unlikely to make use of Gideon's terror weapons. And as Stahl consolidates his new territory, GDI has an opportunity to salami slice more of Florida away, which Stahl doesn't seem to mind as the Nod forces are very willing to give up land.

Unfortunately, Stahl has that most dangerous of combination of traits, a great deal of competence in tactics, strategy, and logistics, and no major weaknesses. He doesn't seem to develop much new technology, but he's happy to trade with Warlords that do. And as I noted above, he'll soon have everything Gideon was working on. He might not have much use for Tiberium terror weapons, but some of the other War Lords might, and he'll happily trade those for an advantage he will use. Not to mention how much territory and population he's gained.

And of course, all of this puts him in a better position to become Kane's right hand man. Only the Indian War Lords are in a better position right now, and that's only because Kane's such a simp for out there science. And we're in talks with them, and if anything comes of that Kane's might not be thrilled.
 
To me, this seems like a suggestion that more ZA is not immediately useful, but we should aim to complete Infernium Laser Refits asap.
I presume the note about improving the availability of shipping means finishing the other shipyards?
Navy wants the Treasury to cough up any remaining escort projects, although those won't be done in time for the Karachi military operation they're going to need escorts for convoys going to and from there. They would also like things like like the Infernium refits and other ways to extend GDI's defense umbrella against air threats in particular, as those means GDI can likely maintain and deploy more ships for longer.
MARV hubs in East Africa, to create military bases along the transport routes, and in Southern Australia, to threaten those of Bintang.

So any gene editing project for giving humans mammalian tissue regeneration will have to start with gene transplants from the Golden Spiny Mouse as the most efficient method with the expected side-effects of turning some people nocturnal because the Golden Spiny Mouse has a weird circadian rhythm:
Not sure how that's an expected side-effect unless you include genes affecting the hormone system. I couldn't tell you how closely those are placed or linked to the genes responsible for wound healing, but they certainly don't seem all that related intuitively, and I'd strongly assume that any gene therapy is going to do it's level best to cut out any unnecessary modifications. We're making a specific modification here, instead of trying to create an all-new race of furry mouse-human hybrids.
 
How does this look now?

As you said you intended it to.

Not sure how that's an expected side-effect unless you include genes affecting the hormone system. I couldn't tell you how closely those are placed or linked to the genes responsible for wound healing, but they certainly don't seem all that related intuitively, and I'd strongly assume that any gene therapy is going to do it's level best to cut out any unnecessary modifications. We're making a specific modification here, instead of trying to create an all-new race of furry mouse-human hybrids.

Tissue regeneration in any animal is directly linked to the immune system. The spiny mice have a different calibration to their immune system to enable their healing.

As such we can expect the first version of human tissue regeneration to be some form of hybrid genetic modification to specific cell cultures that are then injected for treatment and hormonal treatment that may have as a side effect making people nocturnal while they are undergoing it.
 
Folklore, I thought we were cool. You cannot do this to me.
I will miss Gideon, not because I liked him, but because he was a much more hateable antagonist than Stahl or the other guys. But the way of things seems to be peace and harmony with Nod, which I dont like, but I dont have to like everything. At least I have the 20k space goal. Moon Cities or bust.
In all fairness, we're being peace and harmony with Nod because it means we can more safely throw free dice at things like Tiberium, HI, or Orbital without worrying too hard about if we're losing a tech arms race on the battlefield.

And of course, all of this puts him in a better position to become Kane's right hand man. Only the Indian War Lords are in a better position right now, and that's only because Kane's such a simp for out there science. And we're in talks with them, and if anything comes of that Kane's might not be thrilled.
He might be fine with it, actually. I mean, he wasn't angry over the Caravanserai getting closer ties to GDI (just that Mehretu pissed them the fuck off), and even pointed out that China could've done something similar but has been sitting on their ass instead.

If anything, more Nod warlords friendly to GDI makes it easier should he need to get TCN tech into GDI hands (also easier to get the thing built, with less worry for Nod forces attacking construction).

To be honest, I think this is unlikely because it is not yet the right time for Kane to show himself in public again.
On the one hand, his negotiating position is not very good, as the general situation is not yet bad enough to get all the concessions he wants from the GDI, and on the other hand, the Brotherhood of NOD has emerged weakened from the last war started by the warlords and needs time to regain its former strength.
Stahl is willing to let GDI through to fight Tiberium. Bannerjees seem to like fighting tiberium to some extent too. China and Bintang probably want to survive. That's the Americas and southern Asia friendly to GDI to an extent. Reynaldo's in no position to meaningfully contest anything. The big question marks on which way they'd go is Krukov and Mehretu. So northern Asia and Africa. If Kane shows up with Nod's first ever actual technology of peace and tells Nod to work with GDI in building it, there's really only two big areas we might have to make a fight of it to do so.

--

As an aside, I think we have conclusively answered that tag for the thread. "are ya winnin' giddyboy?" That's a permanent no.
 
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I'm baffled that people aren't talking about the implications of animal people more. Besides the cat-girl meme and the mentioned regeneration properties, having humans adopt other animal qualities could have incredible combat, industrial and social impacts on society. Imagine giving people a more acute sense of pheronomes, or a better sense of hearing and sight? That seems to be one of the inovations that could potentially totally alter the current landscape of the world.

...

Besides, dog-girls are the best.
 
All the reasons make sense of course and objectively peace is preferably to war, but I wanna smash Nod :(
Keep your hope strong. I expect Mehretu and/or Krukov to refuse to follow Kane should he go for peace with GDI in order to build the TCN. Which means we'd get a blank check to punch those two out as hard as possible!

We could've counted on Gideon, but sadly he wasn't pro gamer enough to stick around to that point.

I'm baffled that people aren't talking about the implications of animal people more. Besides the cat-girl meme and the mentioned regeneration properties, having humans adopt other animal qualities could have incredible combat, industrial and social impacts on society. Imagine giving people a more acute sense of pheronomes, or a better sense of hearing and sight? That seems to be one of the inovations that could potentially totally alter the current landscape of the world.
I've read Psi Effect a few times. When getting that sort of stuff is basically going into a clinic and using some meld whenever you feel like it in that setting, GDI potentially having the ability to do something not quite as easy isn't really more than a blip on the radar. ;)
 
I'm baffled that people aren't talking about the implications of animal people more. Besides the cat-girl meme and the mentioned regeneration properties, having humans adopt other animal qualities could have incredible combat, industrial and social impacts on society.
Mmm...

Imagine giving people a more acute sense of pheronomes, or a better sense of hearing and sight?
We have, respectfully, chemical sensors, audio pickups, and cameras. All of which can work in incredibly hostile conditions, continuously, while the operators sits in environment-conditioned discomfort.

Does giving subsections of the populations innate superhuman sensory abilities that don't need expensive materials and fabrication techniques have much value? In a high technological society, I don't really see it.

EDIT:Mind you, there's a market for it--I just don't see the practical use of it.

That seems to be one of the inovations that could potentially totally alter the current landscape of the world.
What I would be really excited for is our own bootleg Black Carapace--a gene mod or xenotissue graft that could act as the meat-end of a hard neural interface. Or at least something along those lines that would make neural interfaces easier to install and easier on mind and body.

It'd grease the wheels not only for prosthetics and operating machinery, but also for brain coprocessors.
 
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Columbia not having much of a impact yet. Perhaps because of its rushed nature. I'm sure over time it will settle down.

I'm not particularly surprised, I never understood the logic behind "seeing that a teeny tiny fraction of the ultra-elite are going to move to space will make Ivan GDIanov want to have babies." Until there are hundreds of millions of berths available in our space colonies, your average Joe has approximately zero chance of ever getting off the doomed hell-planet. Yeah theoretically Columbia demonstrates the first step towards eventually getting to numbers like that, but you have to be drinking the Kool-Aid HARD already to get any sort of meaningful hope or satisfaction out of Columbia. Which checks out with the update, Starbound partisans are getting horny for space but normal people couldn't really care less.

Thousands of people in space is basically meaningless to changing the future outlook a normal minimum wage worker has. Even millions of berths is going to be a few million berths for middle and upper class professionals meant to preserve an advanced knowledge base, not the dude flipping burgers ladling out curry at the canteen. Until it looks like the curry ladler and his hypothetical kid can actually get a spot in the Moon colony, I mean like "you can get on a rocket and go tomorrow," not "maybe if current trends hold in 20 years I can get on a rocket," he probably won't be making that kid reality.
 
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Ehhh.

I think there probably is a real impact along the lines of "I don't think humanity necessarily has a future, so I don't want to have kids," and an obvious rapid, exponential trend towards bigger space colonies would address that to a large extent. Even if a curry-ladler at the canteen can't just hop on a rocket and go to the colonies tomorrow, it makes it seem a lot more reasonable to suppose that there will be colonies a generation or two from now, which is going to shape some people's decision. It's not the current event, it's the long term prospect.

The trick is that just the bare fact that we've started to build Columbia isn't enough for that; we need to clearly have built the thing and continued work on expanding space colonies, and it'll probably take a few years for that to sink in.
 
I'm not particularly surprised, I never understood the logic behind "seeing that a teeny tiny fraction of the ultra-elite are going to move to space will make Ivan GDIanov want to have babies." Until there are hundreds of millions of berths available in our space colonies, your average Joe has approximately zero chance of ever getting off the doomed hell-planet. Yeah theoretically Columbia demonstrates the first step towards eventually getting to numbers like that, but you have to be drinking the Kool-Aid HARD already to get any sort of meaningful hope or satisfaction out of Columbia. Which checks out with the update, Starbound partisans are getting horny for space but normal people couldn't really care less.

Thousands of people in space is basically meaningless to changing the future outlook a normal minimum wage worker has. Even millions of berths is going to be a few million berths for middle and upper class professionals meant to preserve an advanced knowledge base, not the dude flipping burgers ladling out curry at the canteen. Until it looks like the curry ladler and his hypothetical kid can actually get a spot in the Moon colony, I mean like "you can get on a rocket and go tomorrow," not "maybe if current trends hold in 20 years I can get on a rocket," he probably won't be making that kid reality.

Wow I hope this doesn't have bad societal ramifications and cause and class and culture conflicts.

I'll be very excited when they start dropping colonies.


View: https://youtu.be/KW6k8_Wf-Rw
 
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