- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I'll aim high for the mutation roll.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My apologies. I overreacted because I saw several hundred words of (justified) praise for how effective the Department of Refits could be under the right circumstances, and... I have had at least half a dozen arguments in the past month that boil down to "dear enthusiast for starting this or that department, please no please stop this is a bad time."
So I reacted to the top half, had something of a flashback, and missed that line of recommendations, mentally. I apologize.
In all fairness, they also start immediately, which is tremendous. The vast majority of the time, we're not fighting a full-scale war and gradual rollout of a project is good enough as long as the project reliably does get worked on. The only cases where Parliament has ever smacked us for a military refit project was when said refits were left for years at a time without being started (e.g. tank and naval antimissile defense systems).
The big tricky bit is that -1 Military die is worth about 80 Progress a turn, and 30 R will usually cover about 1.5 dice worth of progress, so you're really only getting your money's worth if there are several pricey projects cooking at once. But you know about that aspect; I'm just commenting..
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Further draft revisions. Budgets for Resources, Capital Goods, Energy, Food, and Political Support are now spoilered for brevity. Notable things: These plans don't run up our Resource surplus much, because the -RpT from bureaus is eating into our budget rather heavily. Both increase the...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
I have adopted a policy of naming all my plan variants in each quarter "Plan Attempting To [verb noun]."
I do not have or claim some kind of unique right to use this phrase, but it helps distinguish them.
Oledoms
Friesmancer
This is probably not a popular opinion but we should at least consider doing this on 2063 where we have a large amount of money for our imventory and we can check the available recruits for dice because this is two dice we are sacrificing and checking future options in replacing them would be in the cards especially as we have no current replacement for Tali Jackson at this time.
staplesdex2
CLASSFIED
Well this reminds me of that one time that Nod Assassination roll succeeded in killing the one personnel that provided us a military die many turns way back. Still stings a little bit that it cost us that one die.
Oledoms
Friesmancer
I hope that Ilithilid can also consider doing this for our Talons Branch in the near future.
Department of Advanced Military Research.
While the GDI Military considers its current weaponry roster to be sufficient against a future war with Nod. It is clear that research and prototyping of newer weappnry must be done in order to catch up with Nod and possible Scrin attacks. Spinning this function off into a dedicated department will increase the efficiency and please both the Steel Talons Branch and the Militarists.
(-1 die) (-50 resources per turn) (20 progress towards all Steel Talons Development and Deployment Projects)
Department of Advanced Military Research.
While the GDI Military considers its current weaponry roster to be sufficient against a future war with Nod. It is clear that research and prototyping of newer weappnry must be done in order to catch up with Nod and possible Scrin attacks. Spinning this function off into a dedicated department will increase the efficiency and please both the Steel Talons Branch and the Militarists.
(-1 die) (-50 resources per turn) (20 progress towards all Steel Talons Development and Deployment Projects)
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Ithillid On a re-read of old parts of the quest, I happened to discover that this stat is incorrect. The two phases of T-Glass were meant to give +40 RpT by reducing maintenance requirements, however, a Natural 100 on the 2nd stage gave us an additional +10 RpT. So the "Maitenance Reductions" should be +50 instead of +40. (This doesn't affect the current turn, but it will matter for Reallocation.) Here's the relevant results post, and also the one with Stage 1 too for reference:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I, for one, am cautiously in favor of waiting about that long. It might actually be best to finish the Infernium Laser Refits for the navy before doing this spinoff bureau, though, as we probably want those done before Karachi, and at 30 R/die, the laser refits are similarly expensive to the whole rest of the bureau.
This seems strictly inferior to just spending an average of about one Military die on the Talons per turn, which is what I have in mind to more or less do.
I'm a bit confused about how "maintenance reductions" are tracked. I infer that they're part of the general budget for reallocation purposes, along with tax money...?
Then again, one could also imagine that as a permanent reduction of the operating expenses associated with tiberium mining (which Treasury is always responsible for) that they are somehow reallocation-proof. I figured that would be too optimistic an assumption, though.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
As a pure thought experiment, I wrote a notional 510 R budget for 2062Q1. This is what our situation looks like if we take the 20% GDP option during reapportionment, have a 140 R reserve fund, and don't divest any of our existing line items.
Again, this is a benchmark, a skeleton, a standard for comparison just to get people used to the idea of what it looks like if we don't have a lot of money and need to rebuild the budget quickly.
[] 2062Q1 Draft Plan Attempting To Treasury While Broke (NOT A PLAN FOR THIS TURN)
-[] Infrastructure (2/5 Dice, +34 bonus, 20 R)
--[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9+10) 82/320 (2 dice, 20 R) (Phase 9, 9% Phase 10)
-[] Heavy Industry (3/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 30 R)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 0/300 (3 dice, 30 R) (19% chance)
-[] Light Industry (1/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 10 R)
--[] One die on Drones, Artificial Wood, or Isolinear Peripherals (???)
-[] Agriculture (1/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 10 R)
--[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) 18/140 (1 die, 10 R) (18% chance)
-[] Tiberium (7 Dice + 7 Free Dice, +39 bonus, 325 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2+3+4+5+6) (8 dice, 160 R)
---[] ~97% chance Stage 4, ~39% chance Stage 5, 0.6% chance Stage 6
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1+2) (3 dice, 75 R) (???)
--[] [Super Glacier Mines] (Stage 1) (3 dice, 90 R) (???)
---[] Exact stats are placeholders
--[] May shuffle dice off vein mining to a Red Zone project.
--[] If done, this means even less R for stuff outside Tiberium
-[] Orbital (4/6 dice, +26 bonus, 60 R)
--[] One die each on station bay/shuttle yard (2 dice, 40 R) (???)
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 (2 dice, 20 R) (Stage 11, 76% chance Stage 12)
-[] Services (0/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 0 R)
-[] Military (6/8 dice, +26 bonus, 55 R)
--[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 0/350 (3 dice, 15 R) (2% chance)
--[] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 0/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (23% chance)
--[] Unfinished/Expensive Military Business (1 die, 20 R) (???)
---[] Whatever has priority and is really worth it
---[] Zone armor factory, shipyard, ???
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +24 bonus)
--[] Either a 'recruitment' action or...
--[] Security reviews of Military and Agriculture
--[] Or a mix of one review and one recruitment action
Now, this is not an attractive plan. Its one virtue is that we can expect about 25 R from the last stages of orbital cleanup and some combination of about +95 RpT from three stages of vein mining, +30 RpT from a fourth, +25 RpT from the border offensives, and +?? RpT from a super glacier mine. Probably not all of those at once, but the first one and two of the last three.
Unfortunately, all that really does is close up the gap so our income rises from the underlying ~370 RpT to, oh, let's say ~520 RpT or so, and our 150 R reserve is replaced by a 25 R reserve, so 2062Q2 isn't looking much better than this.
A plan that relies on a large cash reserve (by saving in Q4) can do "better" than this in Q1... but the price is that it actively slumps further in Q2, because +150 RpT is about as much as we can pump up our income in a single turn even with a giant meme plan commitment to tiberium mining. Thus, even if we have 300 R in the piggy bank, we're still in a very tight situation that is made deceptively pleasant by saying "oh, we'll have 670 R to work with." Because if we actually spent all that 670 R (nearly half of which is piggy bank money we saved up in 2061), then the turn after that we'd be right back down to around 500-550 RpT and very little savings.
This is why I'm strongly advocating pushing for 25% GDP at a minimum, unless we can easily divest ourselves of all or nearly all our current -165 RpT worth of line items.
Again, this is a benchmark, a skeleton, a standard for comparison just to get people used to the idea of what it looks like if we don't have a lot of money and need to rebuild the budget quickly.
[] 2062Q1 Draft Plan Attempting To Treasury While Broke (NOT A PLAN FOR THIS TURN)
-[] Infrastructure (2/5 Dice, +34 bonus, 20 R)
--[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9+10) 82/320 (2 dice, 20 R) (Phase 9, 9% Phase 10)
-[] Heavy Industry (3/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 30 R)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 0/300 (3 dice, 30 R) (19% chance)
-[] Light Industry (1/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 10 R)
--[] One die on Drones, Artificial Wood, or Isolinear Peripherals (???)
-[] Agriculture (1/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 10 R)
--[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) 18/140 (1 die, 10 R) (18% chance)
-[] Tiberium (7 Dice + 7 Free Dice, +39 bonus, 325 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2+3+4+5+6) (8 dice, 160 R)
---[] ~97% chance Stage 4, ~39% chance Stage 5, 0.6% chance Stage 6
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1+2) (3 dice, 75 R) (???)
--[] [Super Glacier Mines] (Stage 1) (3 dice, 90 R) (???)
---[] Exact stats are placeholders
--[] May shuffle dice off vein mining to a Red Zone project.
--[] If done, this means even less R for stuff outside Tiberium
-[] Orbital (4/6 dice, +26 bonus, 60 R)
--[] One die each on station bay/shuttle yard (2 dice, 40 R) (???)
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 (2 dice, 20 R) (Stage 11, 76% chance Stage 12)
-[] Services (0/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 0 R)
-[] Military (6/8 dice, +26 bonus, 55 R)
--[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 0/350 (3 dice, 15 R) (2% chance)
--[] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 0/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (23% chance)
--[] Unfinished/Expensive Military Business (1 die, 20 R) (???)
---[] Whatever has priority and is really worth it
---[] Zone armor factory, shipyard, ???
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +24 bonus)
--[] Either a 'recruitment' action or...
--[] Security reviews of Military and Agriculture
--[] Or a mix of one review and one recruitment action
Now, this is not an attractive plan. Its one virtue is that we can expect about 25 R from the last stages of orbital cleanup and some combination of about +95 RpT from three stages of vein mining, +30 RpT from a fourth, +25 RpT from the border offensives, and +?? RpT from a super glacier mine. Probably not all of those at once, but the first one and two of the last three.
Unfortunately, all that really does is close up the gap so our income rises from the underlying ~370 RpT to, oh, let's say ~520 RpT or so, and our 150 R reserve is replaced by a 25 R reserve, so 2062Q2 isn't looking much better than this.
A plan that relies on a large cash reserve (by saving in Q4) can do "better" than this in Q1... but the price is that it actively slumps further in Q2, because +150 RpT is about as much as we can pump up our income in a single turn even with a giant meme plan commitment to tiberium mining. Thus, even if we have 300 R in the piggy bank, we're still in a very tight situation that is made deceptively pleasant by saying "oh, we'll have 670 R to work with." Because if we actually spent all that 670 R (nearly half of which is piggy bank money we saved up in 2061), then the turn after that we'd be right back down to around 500-550 RpT and very little savings.
This is why I'm strongly advocating pushing for 25% GDP at a minimum, unless we can easily divest ourselves of all or nearly all our current -165 RpT worth of line items.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
[X] Plan Attempting To Have Banks In Chicago
Changing vote.
Changing vote.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The smart thing to do here is to only spend half of the reserve in Q1, not all of it. That way you have enough reserve to keep a decent level of activity for two turns, which is long enough to recover the RpT income to get at (or above) the level of spending you started with in Q1.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Quite true!
In which case the resulting budget and plan end up looking a lot like I show for Q1, with Q2 being noticeably better. My main concern is people looking at "we will have 670 R to work with in Q1" and thinking "we can spend that and have 670 R again in Q2." I wanted to explicitly note that no, we really can't expect our income to increase faster than 150 RpT per turn, maybe 200 RpT if we roll well and are lucky, so we cannot fully replace a 300 R reserve fund if it's all spent in the first turn.
...
General note, apropos of nothing:
For the record, my 370 RpT figure for starting income was derived from Lightwhispers' calculations. Among Lightwhispers' assumptions:
1) Since Treasury gets 100% of moon mine income, moon mine income is not added to GDI's total budget for purposes of allocation. The government will not first agree to give us 100% of the moon mine money to work with, then also agree to give us an additional 20% to 30% of the moon mine money as part of the general allocation.
2) All 165 RpT of budgetary line items including spinoff departments, grants, and so on remain part of Treasury's budget. Obviously this is seriously cramping our style, so finding ways to divest ourselves of some of those expenses would be very useful.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Attempting To Have Banks In Chicago
This is the first time I've ever voted on an actual plan in this quest. Huh.
This is the first time I've ever voted on an actual plan in this quest. Huh.
MBT-6 Predator, Governor Class Cruiser, Shark Class Frigate, Mastodon Heavy Walker - Renders
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Length: 11.3 m
Width: 7 m
Height: 5.6 m
Width: 7 m
Height: 5.6 m
Length: 175 m
Width: 18
Height: 28 m
Width: 18
Height: 28 m
Length: 152 m
Width: 20
Height: 21 m
Width: 20
Height: 21 m
Length: 31.6 m
Width: 11.8 m
Height: 19.4 m
Width: 11.8 m
Height: 19.4 m
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Length: 11.3 m
Width: 7 m
Height: 5.6 m
Length: 175 m
Width: 18
Height: 28 m
Length: 152 m
Width: 20
Height: 21 m
Length: 31.6 m
Width: 11.8 m
Height: 19.4 m
Cool are those just art or can some of the fan modders use them in their work?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That Governor class has a real big brain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They are hacked together pieces of shit that look only good standing still. They are not rigged and have no animations. If people I like will ask me I will hand them out, but otherwise you will need to rip them out of my cold dead hands.
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Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
*Shoots @BOTcommander* Now all we need is a rigger since Sunrise is already doing SCED Quest. 
But in all seriousness good job and thank you just for the hacked together pieces of shit. They look great.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
So, I did another 2062Q1 budget draft.
This time, it's based on what our situation looks like if we:
-Take the 25% GDP option during reapportionment.
-Have a 130 R reserve fund (the value from the leading plan, Attempting To Have Banks In Chicago)
-Don't divest any of our existing line items.
-Get +5 RpT from Tiberium Claws.
-Get +15 RpT from the Banks in Chicago's Red Zone Border Offensive; it should probably be more than this, but then, we might not get any at all if it doesn't complete.
-From the extra +20 Tiberium income, we should expect to retain +6, so our income calculation then looks like...
130 R reserve
100 RpT moon mines
0.25*((2115+20) tib +30 tax +50 maintenance savings as per Derpmind) = 558.75 RpT rounds to 560
-165 RpT line items
130+100+560-165 = 625 R to spend.
625/625 R
[] 2062Q1 Draft Plan Attempting To Treasury On A Shoestring (NOT A PLAN FOR THIS TURN)
-[] Infrastructure (3/5 Dice, +32 bonus, 45 R)
--[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9+10) 82/320 (3 dice, 30 R) (Phase 9, 68% Phase 10)
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) (1 die, 15 R) (1/2 median)
-[] Heavy Industry (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 50 R)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 0/300 (3 dice, 30 R) (19% chance)
--[] Important Project (finish Fusion Phase 9, finish Suzuka, do LVPAD, ???) (1 die, 20 R) (???)
-[] Light Industry (2/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 20 R)
--[] Two dice on Drones, Artificial Wood, or Isolinear Peripherals (???)
-[] Agriculture (3/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 30 R)
--[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) 18/140 (1 die, 10 R) (18% chance)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 56/450 (2 dice, 20 R) (2/5 median)
-[] Tiberium (7 Dice + 7 Free Dice, +39 bonus, 325 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2+3+4+5+6) (8 dice, 160 R)
---[] ~97% chance Stage 4, ~39% chance Stage 5, 0.6% chance Stage 6
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1+2) (3 dice, 75 R) (???)
--[] [Super Glacier Mines] (Stage 1) (3 dice, 90 R) (???)
---[] Exact stats are placeholders
--[] May shuffle dice off vein mining to a Red Zone project.
--[] If done, this means even less R for stuff outside Tiberium
-[] Orbital (5/6 dice, +26 bonus, 80 R)
--[] 1-2 dice each on station bay/shuttle yard (3 dice, 60 R) (???)
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 (2 dice, 20 R) (Stage 11, 76% chance Stage 12)
-[] Services (0/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 0 R)
--[] Might switch something from another category over here if there's a nice and cheap new option.
-[] Military (7/8 dice, +26 bonus, 75 R)
--[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 0/350 (3 dice, 15 R) (2% chance)
--[] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 0/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (23% chance)
--[] Unfinished/Expensive Military Business (2 dice, 40 R) (???)
---[] Whatever has priority and is really worth it
---[] Zone armor factory, shipyard, ???
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +24 bonus)
--[] Either a 'recruitment' action or...
--[] Security reviews of Military and Agriculture
--[] Or a mix of one review and one recruitment action
This is still not great, but it's not as bad. We come significantly closer to activating all our dice. Q2 is still gonna be rough (probably a little better than this but not much), but it's all uphill from there.
This time, it's based on what our situation looks like if we:
-Take the 25% GDP option during reapportionment.
-Have a 130 R reserve fund (the value from the leading plan, Attempting To Have Banks In Chicago)
-Don't divest any of our existing line items.
-Get +5 RpT from Tiberium Claws.
-Get +15 RpT from the Banks in Chicago's Red Zone Border Offensive; it should probably be more than this, but then, we might not get any at all if it doesn't complete.
-From the extra +20 Tiberium income, we should expect to retain +6, so our income calculation then looks like...
130 R reserve
100 RpT moon mines
0.25*((2115+20) tib +30 tax +50 maintenance savings as per Derpmind) = 558.75 RpT rounds to 560
-165 RpT line items
130+100+560-165 = 625 R to spend.
625/625 R
[] 2062Q1 Draft Plan Attempting To Treasury On A Shoestring (NOT A PLAN FOR THIS TURN)
-[] Infrastructure (3/5 Dice, +32 bonus, 45 R)
--[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9+10) 82/320 (3 dice, 30 R) (Phase 9, 68% Phase 10)
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) (1 die, 15 R) (1/2 median)
-[] Heavy Industry (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 50 R)
--[] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 0/300 (3 dice, 30 R) (19% chance)
--[] Important Project (finish Fusion Phase 9, finish Suzuka, do LVPAD, ???) (1 die, 20 R) (???)
-[] Light Industry (2/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 20 R)
--[] Two dice on Drones, Artificial Wood, or Isolinear Peripherals (???)
-[] Agriculture (3/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 30 R)
--[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5) 18/140 (1 die, 10 R) (18% chance)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 56/450 (2 dice, 20 R) (2/5 median)
-[] Tiberium (7 Dice + 7 Free Dice, +39 bonus, 325 R)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2+3+4+5+6) (8 dice, 160 R)
---[] ~97% chance Stage 4, ~39% chance Stage 5, 0.6% chance Stage 6
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1+2) (3 dice, 75 R) (???)
--[] [Super Glacier Mines] (Stage 1) (3 dice, 90 R) (???)
---[] Exact stats are placeholders
--[] May shuffle dice off vein mining to a Red Zone project.
--[] If done, this means even less R for stuff outside Tiberium
-[] Orbital (5/6 dice, +26 bonus, 80 R)
--[] 1-2 dice each on station bay/shuttle yard (3 dice, 60 R) (???)
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 (2 dice, 20 R) (Stage 11, 76% chance Stage 12)
-[] Services (0/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 0 R)
--[] Might switch something from another category over here if there's a nice and cheap new option.
-[] Military (7/8 dice, +26 bonus, 75 R)
--[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 0/350 (3 dice, 15 R) (2% chance)
--[] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 0/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (23% chance)
--[] Unfinished/Expensive Military Business (2 dice, 40 R) (???)
---[] Whatever has priority and is really worth it
---[] Zone armor factory, shipyard, ???
-[] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +24 bonus)
--[] Either a 'recruitment' action or...
--[] Security reviews of Military and Agriculture
--[] Or a mix of one review and one recruitment action
This is still not great, but it's not as bad. We come significantly closer to activating all our dice. Q2 is still gonna be rough (probably a little better than this but not much), but it's all uphill from there.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
The current round of vertical farming won't be enough to get better food variety to the majority of the population so it should be a good idea to try and rejig things for some vertical farming dice rather then bland aquaculture food and working on more "I can't believe it's not tea".
Don't forget to include a ST project here like sparkle shields since we want to keep Tali.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The last time we had this problem we nearly run into catastrophe because the navy wanted hulls now and we were busy trying to optimize. An island with no orca wingsmans is more useful than one with orcas that only exists on a drawing board. I have no desire for this to happen again.
- Location
- USA
That shouldn't be a problem. They are already designed for wingmen. We just have to deploy the wingmen so the ships can actually use them.
I'd rather leave the mil dice idle than spend them on Ferro-Aluminum armor tbh. It's not that much better than our current armor, and we can afford to just let the refits department (eventually) handle it in the background.
Save the resources for a more important project.
Save the resources for a more important project.