I'd put building the Fusion Shipyard bay in Phase 4, and the G-Drive Shipyard bay to whatever phase (probably 4, but later) we're in when SCED finishes the G-Drive development research and then the Conestoga development is complete. Because getting them built sooner will help with whatever other non-station projects we do.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
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- He/Him
Gdrive Yards won, thusly I win 😎
Well, too bad about advanced materials, but it became clear pretty early that it would be an uphill battle for them.
This said, the maximum space infrastructure plan won, so I hope we will be able to build a dedicated advanced materials space lab reasonably early.
Regarding the future plans, basically what everyone said already - Leopard II and station bay as early as feasible, probably followed by fusion bay if it gives us further disounts or early phases of Shala and Columbia if not. Gravitic shipyard as soon as SCED quest and we researched all the available tech.
This said, the maximum space infrastructure plan won, so I hope we will be able to build a dedicated advanced materials space lab reasonably early.
Regarding the future plans, basically what everyone said already - Leopard II and station bay as early as feasible, probably followed by fusion bay if it gives us further disounts or early phases of Shala and Columbia if not. Gravitic shipyard as soon as SCED quest and we researched all the available tech.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
That's what I desperately want. We have so much advanced technology and we're only going to get more. And we'll need more, because Nod isn't slowing down on that front, and who knows when the Scrin will return. We need to get ahead.
I agree with this. I'll also once again push for Steel Talon projects, particularly the shields, USGVs and the MRASP. Base building capabilities are obviously useful for starting asteroid mines, and more support drone tech will be extremely useful. I don't think I need to detail shields to anyone.
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- He/Him
For those delaying the G-Drive yard until we have better drives and whatever other techs you think you want on the first G-Drive ships. You are aware that the G-Drive yard isn't likely to be locked into building only a single class of ship right? Like, if we were to build it now-ish and to develop the Conestoga, we would likely be able to either refit the Conestogas or start building the new ships in the yard as soon as they are completed.
Not to mention that building and operating a Conestoga or 2 will improve our institutional knowledge of the G-Drive along with increasing the chance of someone working with one to have a "Eureka" moment and giving us an extra 0.1G of acceleration.
Not to mention that building and operating a Conestoga or 2 will improve our institutional knowledge of the G-Drive along with increasing the chance of someone working with one to have a "Eureka" moment and giving us an extra 0.1G of acceleration.
- Location
- Outside the Box
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- She/Her
A big reason behind delaying the Conestoga design and Gravitic bay is the following development project in SCED Quest:
(2 dice 17.7%, 3 dice 77.87%, 4 dice 98.34%)
It's currently at 198/400 after last turn's rolls. With a die bonus of +30 but being limited to one die per turn, it should be finished in 2-4 turns. So call it Q4 of next year at the latest when we should have some kind of improvement to the G-Drive to build off of for Treasury scale projects.
(2 dice 17.7%, 3 dice 77.87%, 4 dice 98.34%)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Broadly speaking, this is my plan, except I think that specifically the fusion shipyard bay is worth doing during Phase 3, because it's likely to be the kind of thing where having that infrastructure ready for whatever we want to do after finishing the big Crown Jewel stations will matter a lot.
Yes. But I very much want to make sure that the gravitic yard is specifically equipped to build Conestogas, and that no design aspect of the Conestogas has to be compromised because of the existing infrastructure needs of the bay.
I don't want the answer to "why did you design the Conestogas like this" to be "because otherwise it wouldn't fit through the doors; we checked and there were only X meters of clearance."
Then that will become part of our third phase of gravitic drive research. We're allowed to keep working at it, and have every reason to expect that we will continue to work at it on and off for the next century or more.
Gravitic drive technology is going to be more like the early days of aviation, where fundamental advances and changes came often enough that craft built only a decade apart might not even resemble each other that closely. This isn't like the situation with tanks where we know that whatever we design now is likely to be (with assorted aftermarket modifications) the definitive last-word design for a generation or so due to mass production constraints.
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- Location
- The Underdark
When you build the Gdrive Bay, it will be basically capable of building anywhere up to 500 displacement tons. 550-560 if you push it. Call it 7000-8000 cubic meters of design space. This will fit pretty much any configuration of Conestoga that you care to come up with, barring you rolling something bullshit in the meantime.
For reference, Pathfinder is about 300 displacement tons.
For reference, Pathfinder is about 300 displacement tons.
You willing to drop what synergy bonus Enterprise got for picking Station bay + Both shipyards (If any)?
- Location
- The Underdark
There are a few.
So the big one is that it adds a new station after Shala/Columbia. Not sure of the name yet, but it is a big earth orbital dedicated shipyard.
The lesser ones are that it accelerates a lot of shipbuilding technologies and sets things up to be cheaper to build space logi, and the like. I am going to go into more detail when it comes to the actual update however.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ehh, it's a flavor preference as much as anything else. The Conestogas are our first class of gravitic drive spaceship intended for mass production. Enterprise's gravitic yard is the first facility intended to mass-produce gravitic drive starships. It makes sense to design the factory around the vehicle and not the other way around.
...But yeah, that helps drive home some of the limitations we're dealing with, because that's like "ancient galley" sized ships. Something built to the same general scale as Christopher Columbus' ships, or to a modern single-family house. A World War Two destroyer would be vastly larger.
Given that we're gonna need a fleet of space warships by 2070 to make the Militarists happy, and that a naval expedition to Jupiter is probably the only way to resolve the threat of the Visitor remnants... that's about what I'd hoped.
Pity our gravitic ships are such smol beans. Then again, these are still exploratory and 'shuttle run' vessels.
- Location
- The Underdark
A Fletcher class displaces about an olympic swimming pool at full load. 500 displacement tons is a bit under three times that size. 14.3 cubic meters = 1 displacement ton.
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- He/Him
Fletcher Class was what again, our hydrofoil?
- Location
- The Underdark
Destroyer, American, World War Two. 2500 water ton displacement at full load. Which is also about 2500 cubic meters of water funnily enough.
'Displacement ton' here is a ton of liquid hydrogen, not a ton of water. Why? Because Ithillid likes to use Traveler for everything. And I do quite seriously mean everything, there's a Traveler sheet for the Apollo out there. Probably one for the Barghest and Kelpie too.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
...Okay. I can work with that. Thank you for telling me that. The analysis below is based on the outmoded premise that "displacement ton" means the same thing for spacecraft that it does for seagoing ships, the only other context in which I have heard it used and the context in which the concept of "displacing a ton of water" is most directly meaningful.
Since even in Traveler, I doubt that ships ever float on liquid hydrogen seas.
CAVEAT: Everything noted below is based on the assumption that 'displacement ton' means to the reader what it means to, for example, the real-life world's navies and merchant marines.
...
[blinks]
Fletcher-class destroyer - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Santa María (ship) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The Fletcher-class destroyers are listed as having a displacement of 2050 tons. They are 115 meters long, 12 meters high, and... Well, keel to waterline they are five meters high, but from the waterline to the top of the superstructure is in the vicinity of another fifty feet or fifteen meters.
If you wanted to fit a Fletcher in a rectangular box, the box would need to be about 115*12*20 = 27600 cubic meters. This would not really allow room to get around past the hull at the sides and bottom, so you would actually need a larger box if you wanted to be able to maneuver people and machinery around it.
By contrast, the Santa Maria is estimated as having a displacement of 150 tons or so. This is broadly in keeping with the Fletchers being roughly five times as long, twice as wide, and having twice the draft of the Santa Maria... modulo details of the hullform. The Santa Maria if you unstepped the masts, would assuredly fit inside an 8000 cubic meter box, though you would definitely need to take it out of the box to put the masts in.
EDIT:
Of course, if you swim seas of liquid hydrogen, your idea of a "displacement ton" does not align with that of the world's seafaring navies. At which point yes, a Fletcher-class destroyer's displacement drops to something more like around 140-150 tons, and the Santa Maria's to something more like ten tons.
Liquid hydrogen is very fluffy in addition to being deadly cold.
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- He/Him
Because the human brain cannot work with volume as numbers, here is an easy visualization.
From left to right: Human stand-in (1.8m height), ISO Container, Pathfinder, Conestoga.
From left to right: Human stand-in (1.8m height), ISO Container, Pathfinder, Conestoga.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's also the political side of things, where we picked options that have strong Deveopmental and Starbound support: Station Bay is "Supported by Starbound and Developmentalists", Gravitic has "Starbound and Militarist interests", and Fusion is a "Developmentalist core interest."
It sounds to me like the Gravitic Bay is meant to be more of a general purpose Bay than one designed specifically for one type of ship. Which fits with how it'll be likely prototyping tweaks to the Conestoga class if not entirely new Gdrive designs for as long as it operates.
On the less fun mechanical side, if we end up in a turn where it might make sense to want to put a die on the Conestoga development at the same time as we put dice into the Gravitic Bay, it doesn't sound like we're going to get much of anything from keeping dice off the Bay for a turn until the development is done first.
Displacement for water vessels is a measure of its weight. Displacement for Gdrive ships is a measure of volume carried, as the amount of mass being carried does not matter. Edit: As a destroyer isn't a cargo ship, I don't know how to even get a measure of its cargo capacity to compare the two.
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- He/Him
As the foremost space expert I will convert whatever dTon figure Ithillid gives us and convert it into the length X a box with measurements (X,X,3X) would need to have that much internal volume.
Pathfinder (300 dTons): X=11.2662m
Conestoga (500 dTons): X=13.3576m
Pathfinder (300 dTons): X=11.2662m
Conestoga (500 dTons): X=13.3576m
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Sez you.
True. But there is little reason not to wait on finalizing the bay design until at least the first actual class of gravitic ship is available as a reference.
In fairness, there is also little reason not to just go ahead, I suppose. I'm not too worried about it either way, anymore.
What I do see as the clincher is that the gravitic yard is about 500 points of Progress (or so) at 30 R/die. It is not a project we want to seriously consider starting too soon into the Fourth Four Year Plan.
Well, now that I know that Ithillid is using "tons of liquid hydrogen" as a proxy for "volume," I can work my way back and forth. If that's "tons of liquid hydrogen that would fit in the cargo bay," mind you, it implies a considerably greater total volume.
Sez you.
True. But there is little reason not to wait on finalizing the bay design until at least the first actual class of gravitic ship is available as a reference.
In fairness, there is also little reason not to just go ahead, I suppose. I'm not too worried about it either way, anymore.
What I do see as the clincher is that the gravitic yard is about 500 points of Progress (or so) at 30 R/die. It is not a project we want to seriously consider starting too soon into the Fourth Four Year Plan.
Well, now that I know that Ithillid is using "tons of liquid hydrogen" as a proxy for "volume," I can work my way back and forth. If that's "tons of liquid hydrogen that would fit in the cargo bay," mind you, it implies a considerably greater total volume.
It's total volume.
The Ambitious Response (ATL)
The Ambitious Response (ATL)
After massacring the GDI diplomats during the peace talks, Yao has fled to the mountain redoubt of her Black Hand subordinates. The GDI military has organized a massive response to this betrayal.
You have but a scant few minutes to prepare for their forward elements, bought dearly by your beloved martyrs. Bintang has promised a naval assault on the GDI's coastal holdings, which will make them choose between killing you once and for all, or protecting their oh-so-precious 'blue zones'. If you can last twenty minutes, they will pull back their forces, and give you the time and space that you need to take back all of Zhōngguó. In Kane's Name!
22 - Biowarfare
After massacring the GDI diplomats during the peace talks, Yao has fled to the mountain redoubt of her Black Hand subordinates. The GDI military has organized a massive response to this betrayal.
You have but a scant few minutes to prepare for their forward elements, bought dearly by your beloved martyrs. Bintang has promised a naval assault on the GDI's coastal holdings, which will make them choose between killing you once and for all, or protecting their oh-so-precious 'blue zones'. If you can last twenty minutes, they will pull back their forces, and give you the time and space that you need to take back all of Zhōngguó. In Kane's Name!
22 - Biowarfare
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
As in engineered diseases or making monsters?
- Location
- USA
Was that scrin or a nod roll?