Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Dmol8 · Jul 28, 2022

Quote of my mathpost:

Dmol8 said:
OK doing my own mathpost so I can do my own preliminary plan afterwards:

Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 220+21+32 = 273/300
Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 8) (Updated) 15+47+74+10+96 = 242/160 (Phase 9) 82/160 -3 Log +6 Hous
Emergency Caloric Reclamation Processor Installations (Phase 1) (Updated) 0+79+32 = 111/80 (Phase 2) 31/80 +5 FiR
Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) (Updated) 137+78+29 = 244/300
Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment 433+29+40+85+87 = 674/600 +6 CapG +10 E
Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority +2 CapGpT -30 RpT -1 Heavy Industry Die
Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 0+64+27+55+9+96 = 251/380
Ranching Domes 228+2+24 = 254/250 +8 ConG -4 F -2 E -2 Lab +5 PS
Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 3) (Updated) 128+56+46+7+72 = 309/175 (Phase 4) 134/200 +2 FiR -3 F
Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2) 20+43+97+78 = 238/200 (Stage 3) 38/200 +600 Processing Capacity -4 E -3 Log
Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (RZ-7 North America) 0+74+39 = 113/120 Completes with +10 Semi-Canon Omake. +2 RZ Abatement +2 PS
Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 0+69+82+95+117 = 353/380
Edit 2: Venusian Tiberium Studies (New) 0+51+44 = 95/120
Edit: GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 997+61+57+88+73+59+49+75+186 = 1645/1535 +2 CapG +2 ConG +2 Industrial Bays +10 PS
Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 2) 56+27+26 = 109/115 Completes with +10 Semi-Canon Omake +5 RpT
Edit 2: Human Genetic Engineering Programs (Tech) 0+45+32 = 77/120
Edit 2: NOD Research Initiatives 87+86+32 = 200/200
Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 0+27+40+54 = 121/300
Edit 2: Ocular Implant Development (Platform) 0+51+32 = 83/120
Edit 2: Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 3) 5+34+13+48+87+33+51+86+9+248 = 614/295 (Phase 4) 319/395
Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 3) 133+93+26 = 252/200 -2 E
Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Updated) New York 0+100+31+52 = 183/180 -2? Lab -3? E -1? CapG
Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Updated) London 0+56+39+26 = 121/180
Escort Carrier Shipyards (High Priority) Newark 179+92+26 = 297/240 -5 E -2 CapG
Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment (High Priority) 144+89+26 = 259/225 -3 E -1 CapG -1 Lab -1 STU

Political Promises:
-5 CapG -20 RpT
+ Complete Chicago Planned City by end of Q4 2065
~~+ Complete Ranching Domes~~
+20-2? = 18? Red Zone Abatement by end of Q4 2065

Interdepartmental Favors:
+ Develop and Deploy Governor A by ??? +5 PS
+ 2-1= 1 Zone Armor Factory by Q4 2061 +5 PS
Develop and Build 1 Conestoga Class by ??? +5 PS
-60 RpT in Q4 of 2062-2065 +10 PS

NOD Research Roll: 8-1 = 7
Quotes for results:

Resources:‌ ‌1200-30+5-20 = 1155 + 0+1200-60-110-120-50-160-160-125-285 = 130 in‌ ‌reserve‌ ‌(-15‌ ‌allocated‌ ‌to‌ ‌the‌ ‌Forgotten)‌ ‌(-35-20 = -55 ‌allocated‌ ‌to‌ ‌grants)‌(+25? from Taxes) (-5 from Resettlement) (-30 from Reconstruction commissions) (-15 from Bureau of Arcologies) (-15 from Consumer Industrial Development) + (-30 from Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority)(-60 in Q4 of 2062, -60 in Q4 of 2063, -60 in Q4 of 2064, -60 in Q4 of 2065)

Political‌ ‌Support:‌ 75+5+2+10+5+5+5+10 = 117? Can we go above 100 PS?
SCIENCE Meter: 4/4
Free‌ ‌Dice:‌ ‌7 ‌
Erewhon Dice: 1
Dice Capacity 55-1 HI = 54/60

Tiberium Spread
22.47-0.14+0.93 = 23.26 Blue Zone
0.01+??.?? = ??.?? Cyan Zone
1.69+0.14-0.93 = 0.90 Green Zone
22.32-0.19+0.67-??.?? = 22.80? Yellow Zone (93 points of mitigation)
53.51+0.19-0.67 = 53.03 Red Zone (65+2 = 67 points of mitigation)

Current Economic Issues:
Housing: +47+1+6-10 = 44 (20-1-6+10 = 23 population in low quality housing) (-10 per turn from refugees) (+1 high-quality housing per turn)
Energy: +17+10-2-4-3?-5-3 = +10? (+4 in reserve)
Logistics: +30-6 = +24? (-3? from military activity)
Food: +27-3-4-3 = +17 (+20+5+2 = 27 in reserve)(-3 per turn from increasing population) (Perennials: +1 on Q4 2061, +1 on Q1 2062, +1 on Q4 2062, +1 on Q1 2063, +1 on Q4 2063)
Health: +13 (-3 from Wartime Demand) (-10 from refugees)
Capital Goods: +16+6+2+2-1?-2-1-5 = +17? (+130 in reserve) + (+2 per turn from sub-departments)
STUs: +11-1 = 10
Consumer Goods: +58-4+3+3+2+8+2 = +70 (-10 from demand spike) (-4 per turn from increased population) (+3 per turn from Private Industry) (+3 per turn from sub-departments) (+2 per turn from perennials. -1 per turn Q2 2063, -1 per turn Q1 2064) (Net +4)
Labor: +47+4+2-1-1-2-2?-1 = 46? (+4 per turn from medical care) (+2 per turn from Immigrant qualifications) (-1 per turn from private industry) (-1 per turn from other government) (Net +4)
Tiberium‌ ‌Processing‌ ‌Capacity‌ ‌(2115/2470+600 = 3070)‌ ‌
Taxation Per Turn: +30?
Space Mining Per Turn: +95+5 = +100
Maintenance Reductions: +40
Green Zone Water: +6

Plan Goals
Food: 8-5-2 = 1 points in reserve
~~Processing: 280 points~~
18? Red Zone Abatement by end of Q4 2065

Projects
Complete ASAT Phase 4
Complete OSRCT Phase 4
Complete at least one more phase of URLS production
Complete GDSS Enterprise
Complete at least one more phase of Space Mines
Complete Karachi Planned City by end of Q4 2065
Deploy Mastodon
Complete All remaining Escort Carrier Shipyards
Deploy Crystal Beam Industrial Laser
Edit: Complete Chicago Planned City by end of Q4 2065
Develop and Deploy Governor A by ???
Complete 1 Zone Armor Factory
Develop and Build 1 Conestoga by ???

Edit 2: I forgot Seo's various action bonuses when it comes to research actions and station building.

And then the new preliminary plan:

[ ] Plan Running on Glass v4.1:
-[ ] Infrastructure 5/5 + 2 Free Die 170 Resources:
--[ ] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 273/300 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 22/250 25 Resources per Die, 6 Dice = 150 Resources
-[ ] Heavy Industry 4/4 Dice 70 Resources:
--[ ] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) (Updated) 244/300 20 resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 20 resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
--[ ] Division of Alternative Energy -10 RpT -1 Heavy Industry Die
-[ ] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 90 Resources:
--[ ] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 30 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 60 Resources
--[ ] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
--[ ] Department of Distributed Manufactures -1 Light and Chemical Die, -20 RpT
-[ ] Agriculture 4/4 Dice 35 Resources:
--[ ] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 4) 134/200 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Department of Core Crops (New) -1 Agriculture Die -15 RpT
--[ ] Security Reviews Agriculture 1 Die
-[ ] Tiberium 7/7 Dice + 1 Free Die + Erewhon Die 195 Resources:
--[ ] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) (Updated) 41/140 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
--[ ] Visceroid Research Programs (Tech) 0/120 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die + Erewhon Die = 30 Resources
--[ ] Venusian Tiberium Studies (New) 95/120 25 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 25 Resources
--[-] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 353/380 Autocompletes next turn.
--[ ] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1) (New) 0/350 25 Resources per Die, 4 Dice = 100 Resources
-[ ] Orbital Industry 6/6 Dice + 1 Free Die 120 Resources:
--[ ] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 32/85 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Leopard II Factory 0/350 20 Resources per Die, 5 Dice = 100 Resources
-[ ] Services 5/5 Dice 110 Resources:
--[ ] Human Genetic Engineering Programs (Tech) 77/120 25 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 25 Resources
--[ ] Hallucinogen Development (Tech) 0/60 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
--[ ] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) (New) 121/300 25 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 50 Resources
--[ ] Ocular Implant Development (Platform) 83/120 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 resources
-[ ] Military 8/8 Dice + 3 Free Dice 220 Resources:
--[ ] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 20 Resources per Die, 3 Dice = 60 Resources
--[ ] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 3) 319/395 20 resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Updated) London 121/180 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Updated) Tokyo 0/180 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
--[ ] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (High Priority) Seattle 0/300 20 Resources per Die, 4 Dice = 80 Resources
-[ ] Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice:
-[ ] Security Reviews Agriculture 1 Die
-[ ] Banking Reforms (Must maintain 100 resources in reserve.)
-[ ] Predictive Modeling Management

170+70+90+35+195+120+110+220 = 1010/1155

- Edit: 1 Die on Yellow Zone Fortress Towns for a 100% chance and a DC of 1 to complete Phase 6.
- 6 Die on Suborbital Shuttle Service for a 100% chance and an Average DC of 4 to complete Phase 2 and a 87% chance and an Average DC of 37 to complete the entire Action. We have been planning to do this for the entire plan and I see no reason not to finish it.

- 1 Die on Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants Phase 9 for a 89% chance and a DC of 12 to complete this phase.
- 2 Die on Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory for a 50% chance and an Average DC of 51 to complete this action and get us some hovertrucks.
- 1 Die on Division of Alternative Energy to get some regular Energy income going.

- 2 Die on Bergen Superconductor Foundry Phase 3 for a 79% chance and an Average DC of 33 to complete this Phase of Bergen.
- 1 Die on Civilian Drone Factories for a 52% chance and a DC of 49 to complete this action.
- 1 Die on Department of Distributed Manufactures so we start rebuilding our old-school Capital Goods manufacturing.

- 2 Die on Strategic Food Stockpile Construction for a 100% chance and an Average DC of 2 to complete Phase 4 and be done with this plan goal.
- 1 Die on Department of Core Crops because quite frankly we always skimp on Agriculture and Services when we need to save money and I would like to get Food income each turn rolling as it will help in the long run for us to do more in Agriculture because we don't have to surge Food production again.
- 1 Die on Security Reviews as it's been 3 Years since the last one and Agirculture actions are cheap enough that it makes no difference if we wait a turn to do it.

- 2 Die on Liquid Tiberium Power Cell for a 99% chance and an Average DC of 3 to complete Phase 1 and a 15% chance and an Average DC of 73 to complete Phase 2. So 10 to 20 power gained on this action.
- 1 Die and Erewhon on Visceroid Research Programs for a 82% chance and a DC of 31 to complete this action. This will synergize with both Human genetic Engineering and Liquid Tiberium Power Cells so might as well give it a try next turn.
- 1 Die on Venusian Tiberium for a 100% chance and a DC of 1 to complete this and finish the Tiberium Heist.
- 4 Dice on Red Zone Energy Refits to get that rolling and not have to build more fusion power plants. 65% chance and an Average DC of 45 to complete a Phase this turn.

- 2 Die on Orbital Cleanup for a 100% chance and a DC of 1 to complete Stage 11 and a 76% chance and an Average DC of 36 to complete the whole action chain, be done with it and get a small amount of bonus resources in reserve from it.
- 5 Dice on Leopard II Factory for a 77% chance and an Average DC of 41 to finish one of the two actions we are planning to do before building the other two stations.

- 1 Die on Human Genetic Engineering Programs for a 100% chance and a DC of 1 to complete this action.
- 1 Die on Hallucinogen Development for a 88% chance and a DC of 18 to complete that and get people some more stims to take the edge off.
- 2 Die on Regional Hospital Expansions for a 42% chance and an Average DC of 55 to complete Phase 1.
- 1 Die on Ocular Implant Development for a 100% chance and a DC of 1 to complete this action and get people some sight replacement.

- 3 Dice on ASAT Phase 4 for a 93% chance and an Average DC of 26 to complete this plan goal.
- 1 Die on Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations for a 71% chance and a DC of 30 to complete this plan goal.
- 1 Die on Ground Forces Zone Armor in London for a 83% chance and a DC of 18 to complete the new plan goal.
- 2 Die on Ground Forces Zone Armor in Tokyo for a 39% chance and an Average DC of 57 to complete and get ZOCOM some more relief.
- 4 Dice on the last Shark Class Frigate Shipyard for a 64% chance and an Average DC of 46 to complete the last of the current crop of shipyards.

- 2 Die on Agriculture Security Review. I'm not interested in having a chance to fail this review.
- 1 Die on Banking Reforms to get that going.
- 1 Die on Predictive Modeling Management. We have 130 Capital Goods stockpiled people. We can trim it a bit if it gets us less critical failures.

Nottheunmaker · Jul 28, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
It occurs to me that the combination of MRASP letting you put a whole-ass mobile base's infrastructure on a single superheavy vehicle, plus field tiberium refining capabilities, plus a MARV's power to act as a giant crawling/floating fortress, gives you a pretty strong set of options for taking the memetic and absurd capabilities of RTS logistics and actualizing them, at least to the extent of being able to construct the buildings. Churning out tanks might be impractical, but

I had a similar thought, but expanding on this, any future Venus actions that might try to set up mining operations there would also benefit from that tech. It's good stuff.

HousePet said:
If we aren't going to drop a decent number of dice on Seattle, perhaps we could drop that single dice on Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 die 30R 62%. Clearing out our 30R/die projects while we can is good, and the Talons need a bit more that a coin.

I'd like to put another die towards the Talons, but even going over the description they seem to be rather unenthused.

Ithillid said:
[ ] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment
A medium weight ion cannon, capable of being fielded on the Titan and other Initiative vehicles, and as a secondary weapon on other systems, is a potentially substantial increase in direct firepower. Deployment is likely to be small scale however, as it is less flexible, barring further delays in deployment of variable munitions for the Initiative's railguns.
(Progress 0/80: 30 resources per die)

It has potential, but they seem to be looking more into railguns and lasers these days.

In addition, I had a thought about the Leaping Legs. Given they're inspired by MGS4 Gekkos, this might be a path to better myomer. That's definitely of interest.

Simon_Jester · Jul 28, 2022

Dmol8 said:
--[ ] Division of Alternative Energy -10 RpT -1 Heavy Industry Die
--[ ] Department of Distributed Manufactures -1 Light and Chemical Die, -20 RpT
--[ ] Department of Core Crops (New) -1 Agriculture Die -15 RpT

I've made my feelings known here; I think it's incredibly ill-advised to be starting these spinoff bureaus (and as a consequence lock ourselves in to -45 RpT of income in 2062 and fewer dice to work with once we get our income sorted) right now. We just do not need the things that come from those bureaus badly enough to justify the pains we suffer from having them.

-[ ] Tiberium 7/7 Dice + 1 Free Die + Erewhon Die 195 Resources:
--[ ] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) (Updated) 41/140 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
--[ ] Visceroid Research Programs (Tech) 0/120 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die + Erewhon Die = 30 Resources
--[ ] Venusian Tiberium Studies (New) 95/120 25 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 25 Resources
--[ ] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1) (New) 0/350 25 Resources per Die, 4 Dice = 100 Resources

What is the probability of the Visceroid research completing? We want it to complete. Well, either way, at least Erewhon would be enjoying himself.

-[ ] Orbital Industry 6/6 Dice + 1 Free Die 120 Resources:
--[ ] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 32/85 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Leopard II Factory 0/350 20 Resources per Die, 5 Dice = 100 Resources

Hm. Five dice means you have a 77% chance of finishing the factory instead of a 32% chance. That's... not bad. We do need the station bay and Leopard II yard done in a reasonably timely manner, after all; they're not projects that can be slow-walked indefinitely because we have something else we can't start until they're ready.. I should maybe consider flipping to one-and-five myself.

-[ ] Military 8/8 Dice + 3 Free Dice 220 Resources:
--[ ] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 20 Resources per Die, 3 Dice = 60 Resources
--[ ] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 3) 319/395 20 resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Updated) London 121/180 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
--[ ] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Updated) Tokyo 0/180 20 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 40 Resources
--[ ] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (High Priority) Seattle 0/300 20 Resources per Die, 4 Dice = 80 Resources

I don't think a 30% chance of failing the OSRCT Plan target is acceptable. Hell, I'm not a fan of the 7% chance of failing the ASAT plan target, but it's not AS bad. If it was me, I'd concentrate more resources on London and not gamble so much with Plan targets.

-[ ] Predictive Modeling Management

We do not have the Capital Goods for this right now, and the benefits are limited.

- 1 Die on Banking Reforms to get that going.
- 1 Die on Predictive Modeling Management. We have 130 Capital Goods stockpiled people. We can trim it a bit if it gets us less critical failures.

That's not how it works. It doesn't take ten points from the stockpile. It takes ten points from our income. We go from +17 Capital Goods to +7, and bam we've fucked up our plans to do serious vein mining next year right there.

Nottheunmaker said:
I had a similar thought, but expanding on this, any future Venus actions that might try to set up mining operations there would also benefit from that tech. It's good stuff.

I'd like to put another die towards the Talons, but even going over the description they seem to be rather unenthused.

It has potential, but they seem to be looking more into railguns and lasers these days.

Yeah, I'm more excited about the Talons projects that don't go "zap" right now. The zap gun options are the next wave, because we need to develop them for future space combat.

In addition, I had a thought about the Leaping Legs. Given they're inspired by MGS4 Gekkos, this might be a path to better myomer. That's definitely of interest.

I dunno, I suspect they're what's already possible with myomer.

tenchifew · Jul 28, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
I dunno, I suspect they're what's already possible with myomer.

What I am really interested in here, are leg actuators. Such jumps have to put some insane stress on legs and yet they do not break, while we were told that our Havoc scouts have quite a few problems with their leg actuators just from high speed maneuvering, so there must be some extremely clever engineering solution to allow it.
I really hope this will help with mobility and maintenance of all our mechs.

HousePet · Jul 28, 2022

Nottheunmaker said:
I'd like to put another die towards the Talons, but even going over the description they seem to be rather unenthused.
It has potential, but they seem to be looking more into railguns and lasers these days.

Both railguns and lasers are short in supply at the moment, and that won't change quickly. So I doubt they'd complain about having mini-ion cannons while we work on getting other things up and deployed.

Simon_Jester · Jul 28, 2022

HousePet said:
Both railguns and lasers are short in supply at the moment, and that won't change quickly. So I doubt they'd complain about having mini-ion cannons while we work on getting other things up and deployed.

I am pretty sure Nod would not agree with your claim that GDI is short of railguns.

Dmol8 · Jul 28, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
What is the probability of the Visceroid research completing? We want it to complete. Well, either way, at least Erewhon would be enjoying himself.

88%. It says so later in the same post:

Dmol8 said:
- 1 Die and Erewhon on Visceroid Research Programs for a 82% chance and a DC of 31 to complete this action. This will synergize with both Human genetic Engineering and Liquid Tiberium Power Cells so might as well give it a try next turn.

Also:

Simon_Jester said:
That's not how it works. It doesn't take ten points from the stockpile. It takes ten points from our income. We go from +17 Capital Goods to +7, and bam we've fucked up our plans to do serious vein mining next year right there.

I'm planning to do 4 Stages of Vein Mining in the first two quarters. I don't need the +17 Capital Goods and if we go into the negative with those we have a 130 stockpile to tick down while we fix it. We have been dealing with a lot of setbacks simply because we got Nat 1s including the CRP Political Support malus which forced us to spend more Dice in Agriculture than we needed to to do a plan goal.

Removing a lot of those will help us build up faster and avoid stuff like having the Glaciers locked until we finish multiple military projects.

Edit: A 30% chance to fail isn't that big of a deal especially since we can finish it next turn meaning that it would fall under reasonably tried to finish plan goal and not detract from us finishing the current plan goal

Voidseer · Jul 28, 2022

[X] Plan CraterMarsscopebase

Simon_Jester · Jul 28, 2022

Dmol8 said:
88%. It says so later in the same post:

So... if the project doesn't complete and some of the extra Political Support we have over 100 boils off wastefully, what happens then?

I'm planning to do 4 Stages of Vein Mining in the first two quarters.

...How is it, that you believe that that's enough?

We have been dealing with a lot of setbacks simply because we got Nat 1s including the CRP Political Support malus which forced us to spend more Dice in Agriculture than we needed to to do a plan goal.

Removing a lot of those will help us build up faster and avoid stuff like having the Glaciers locked until we finish multiple military projects.

...What are you even talking about? "Removing a lot of those... setbacks...?" Like, seriously, what are you talking about?

Edit: A 30% chance to fail isn't that big of a deal especially since we can finish it next turn meaning that it would fall under reasonably tried to finish plan goal and not detract from us finishing the current plan goal

I don't think you're correct about that, factually speaking.

I think you're making a mistake prioritizing four dice for a shipyard no one expects us to finish on time, and one die for a station Parliament expects us to finish on time.

Dmol8 · Jul 28, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
So... if the project doesn't complete and some of the extra Political Support we have over 100 boils off wastefully, what happens then?

...How is it, that you believe that that's enough?

...What are you even talking about? "Removing a lot of those... setbacks...?" Like, seriously, what are you talking about?

I don't think you're correct about that, factually speaking.

I think you're making a mistake prioritizing four dice for a shipyard no one expects us to finish on time, and one die for a station Parliament expects us to finish on time.

- We lose 7 Political Support because the other two PS burning actions completed. In that case there is also the 15% possibility that we lose 2 PS or maybe none because Phase 2 of Tib Power completed.

- By planning to do Red Zone Offensives and Super Glaciers. I'm doing a third Zone Suit Factory for that reason.

- Well that's fine. That is what you think, but I don't agree with you on the risk involved. Which why this is my plan.

BOTcommander · Jul 28, 2022

NickAragua said:
Did the latest SCEDquest not get threadmarked or something?

When both me and 🦑 are not available nobody can go and threadmark stuff.

Karugus · Jul 28, 2022

GhostStalker said:
Wouldn't the warlord most likely to take offense at a Red Zone Border Offensive in North America (where our territory directly borders the Red) be Gideon, and not Majors? In Gideon's case, hasn't he mostly shot his bolt in the Regency War and we responded in kind? Yeah, don't count a major warlord out, but he got pretty wrecked over the course of the last couple of years, and while he definitely has his remaining reserves of elite troops and militia and some WMDs he wouldn't be shy in using if we truly threatened him, I think his ability to respond has been much lessened, especially since we've dealt him any number of blows in his former territories in the Southeast US.

Majors is his former vassal in Canada that now answers to Krukov, and she got into the position by being good at mining. However, her territory only really touches where we border the Red Zone where said offensives would likely be occurring near the southern shore of Lake Superior, whereas we can push much more in areas closer to Gideon's base of operations in the US South and Midwest.

Also nitpick, but the phrase is "all intents and purposes". Irks me when people mangle it.

I figured we'd use our Green Zone as a launching point- especially if glaciers tend to form around major water features. Moreover, we can either push Gideon who has heavily entrenched what little he has left. Or we can pressure the warlord who's specialty is mostly resource extraction, who probably does not have a ton of experience with ZOCOM rolling in in force to contest her Red Zones, nor the heavy metal and experience with it to push us out. Majors has crappy sea access (and for all intensive purposes no access that faces towards Krukov), all of which would be far away from the Red Zone we'd be pushing into. We cut Gideon off from his resource base, we can't get the quick win we wanted by pushing him out of the South, let's grab that resource base before Majors has time to repurpose those resources into defending herself.

We've launched how many offensives into Gideon's yellow belt now? And how many of them were outright success? If we're pushing into the Red Zone I expect we'll largely bypass Gideon. We want to avoid antagonizing him anyways to avoid WMD deployment, and that makes any Red Zone offensives in the south awkward to launch from the East.

Noted.

Simon_Jester · Jul 28, 2022

Karugus said:
I figured we'd use our Green Zone as a launching point...

By definition, the Red Zone Border Offensive -> Super Glacier Mine action sequence takes place around where our Green Zones bump into a Red Zone.

Majors has crappy sea access (and for all intensive purposes no access that faces towards Krukov...

Nitpick: Nod being Nod, something like "Falaks cruising under the Arctic icecap" or "actual-factual leftover pre-TWII tunnels that go under the Arctic Ocean" is not out of the question. Waters may be less out of contact with Krukov than we might think.

Dmol8 said:
- We lose 7 Political Support because the other two PS burning actions completed.

Furthermore, Visceroid research is likely to be delayed quite a bit, as it will be hard to justify completing the project in early 2062.

- By planning to do Red Zone Offensives and Super Glaciers. I'm doing a third Zone Suit Factory for that reason.

I think it overconfident to sign away -10 Capital Goods so quickly and with such certainty that we won't need to do vein mining. Especially since underground tiberium is a known threat to life in the Blue Zones in and of itself... But in particular I don't think we should throw away the means we have to plan for vein mining, to throw away the option of pursuing it heavily if we need to, before we know we have other good options.

Tell you what, I'm going to do unto you as you do unto others.

Have you ever heard of an American poem called Casey At The Bat?

tenchifew · Jul 28, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
By definition, the Red Zone Border Offensive -> Super Glacier Mine action sequence takes place around where our Green Zones bump into a Red Zone.

Nitpick: Nod being Nod, something like "Falaks cruising under the Arctic icecap" or "actual-factual leftover pre-TWII tunnels that go under the Arctic Ocean" is not out of the question. Waters may be less out of contact with Krukov than we might think.

Furthermore, Visceroid research is likely to be delayed quite a bit, as it will be hard to justify completing the project in early 2062.

I think it overconfident to sign away -10 Capital Goods so quickly and with such certainty that we won't need to do vein mining. Especially since underground tiberium is a known threat to life in the Blue Zones in and of itself... But in particular I don't think we should throw away the means we have to plan for vein mining, to throw away the option of pursuing it heavily if we need to, before we know we have other good options.

Tell you what, I'm going to do unto you as you do unto others.

Have you ever heard of an American poem called Casey At The Bat?

While I generally agree with you, it is Dmol's plan, so if he wants to take the risks it is his choice.

Dmol8 · Jul 28, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
Furthermore, Visceroid research is likely to be delayed quite a bit, as it will be hard to justify completing the project in early 2062.

I think it overconfident to sign away -10 Capital Goods so quickly and with such certainty that we won't need to do vein mining. Especially since underground tiberium is a known threat to life in the Blue Zones in and of itself... But in particular I don't think we should throw away the means we have to plan for vein mining, to throw away the option of pursuing it heavily if we need to, before we know we have other good options.

Tell you what, I'm going to do unto you as you do unto others.

Have you ever heard of an American poem called Casey At The Bat?

Simon if you are going to talk about having the freedom to choose our actions could you at least explain what you want us to be free of? Because I have not understood that point from the current conversation of ours.

And yes I have heard of Casey At The Bat. I have it bookmarked from the last time I read you quote it at someone.

Simon_Jester · Jul 28, 2022

Dmol8 said:
Simon if you are going to talk about having the freedom to choose our actions could you at least explain what you want us to be free of? Because I have not understood that point from the current conversation of ours.

...what? Please quote my exact words, because I just searched the last several posts of our conversation for the word 'freedom' and I don't know what you're asking me right now.

And I still don't understand what you meant by "removing... setbacks..." back here.

And yes I have heard of Casey At The Bat. I have it bookmarked from the last time I read you quote it at someone.

Ah. Apologies; I didn't remember having ever mentioned it around here.

Well, suffice to say that it's a classic American cultural touchstone on the dangers of throwing away something you really should have kept, because of your confidence that you'll be able to solve all your problems with some marvelous and superior solution.

You, not anyone else, has decided that there are only four more phases of vein mining in the game. You have not asked the QM, so far as I know. You, not anyone else, has decided that you will be able to freely move out into the Red Zones in 2062Q1. On the basis of these decisions, you are planning to cast away your best hope of doing what everyone else expects to need to do (a lot of vein mining), so that you can get a relatively small benefit (because the rewards of that 'planning' option are relatively small).

Casey at the Bat seems like a very applicable example here.

Dmol8 · Jul 28, 2022

Simon_Jester said:
...what? Please quote my exact words, because I just searched the last several posts of our conversation for the word 'freedom' and I don't know what you're asking me right now.

And I still don't understand what you meant by "removing... setbacks..." back here.

Ah. Apologies; I didn't remember having ever mentioned it around here.

Well, suffice to say that it's a classic American cultural touchstone on the dangers of throwing away something you really should have kept, because of your confidence that you'll be able to solve all your problems with some marvelous and superior solution.

You, not anyone else, has decided that there are only four more phases of vein mining in the game. You have not asked the QM, so far as I know. You, not anyone else, has decided that you will be able to freely move out into the Red Zones in 2062Q1. On the basis of these decisions, you are planning to cast away your best hope of doing what everyone else expects to need to do (a lot of vein mining), so that you can get a relatively small benefit (because the rewards of that 'planning' option are relatively small).

Casey at the Bat seems like a very applicable example here.

- Edit 3: You've repeatedly made the argument that we need those Capital Goods to be able to:

Simon_Jester said:
I think it overconfident to sign away -10 Capital Goods so quickly and with such certainty that we won't need to do vein mining. Especially since underground tiberium is a known threat to life in the Blue Zones in and of itself... But in particular I don't think we should throw away the means we have to plan for vein mining, to throw away the option of pursuing it heavily if we need to, before we know we have other good options.

So if the word freedom is confusing you let me phrase this another way: What bets are you hedging by not using the Capital Goods now? Because from my point of view we should set our harvesting goals for Q1 now and keep to them. There is no reason to wait for another turn.

- Removing setbacks refers to lowering the odds of getting Critical Failures. Instead of needing Edit: one NAT 1 we would need two with the 2d50 Die.

- Simon I said literally yesterday:

Dmol8 said:
We rolled 95 and 60 on that turn. This is a mining action and as such it builds up infrastructure with each completed Stage, with @Derpmind even putting Stage 2+3 as 385 instead of 390 in her array. Which then begs the question at what point do you think we get those boreholes? Stage 5? Or Stage 10? Or maybe 15 or 20? Because we are not going to be able to go for the full Edit 2: 40 theoretically possible Stages of Vein Mining. It would be utterly silly by the end.

Dmol8 said:
I'm assuming we don't get that many stages of it. As in I think we won't be able to do more than 10 Stages of Vein Mining before the action chain is spent and we get another Tiberium Mining action that replaces it.

that I'm assuming there are not that many Stages of Vein Mining and that I think we won't be able to do more than 10 Stages of that Action before it is exhausted.

Edit 2: So no it's not Casey at the Bat because I'm not throwing away actions. I'm expecting them not to be there and planning ahead accordingly.

NickAragua · Jul 28, 2022

BOTcommander said:
When both me and 🦑 are not available nobody can go and threadmark stuff.

Not complaining, just couldn't find it (and no, I'm not scrolling through 10 pages of discussion about Tiberium bongs or whatever). Thus, the threadmark is appreciated.

StarJaunter · Jul 28, 2022

[X] Plan Mars + Two Turn Crater Structure + More Reserach

If its not too late this one has my support

BOTcommander · Jul 28, 2022

[X]Derpmind
lets hope this works

sunrise · Jul 28, 2022

It works and with that vote the lead of Derpmind is large enough for me to closing the vote.

Adhoc vote count started by sunrise on Jul 28, 2022 at 10:29 AM, finished with 83 posts and 12 votes.

8 people have voted
[X] Plan Mars + Two Turn Crater Structure + More Reserach
-[X] Earth-Orbit Facilities
--[X] Enterprise Orbital Assembler (Phase 2 of 4)(Updated) (65/80 IP) 15 IP
-[X] Lunar Facilities 72C 72 IP
--[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 1) 0/30 +15 Structure Parts: 60C, 60 IP
--[X] Ore Electrolysis Test Facility Foundations (Phase 1) 0/3 +3 Foundation Parts: 12C, 12 IP
--[X] Ore Electrolysis Test Facility Foundations (Phase 2) 0/85 4 dice 98%
-[X] Martian Facilities +13 Pathfinder days
--[X] Initial Martian SCED Research Base (Northern polar region) 0/8 +8 Facilities: 56C 40 IP -1 Astronaut Team
-[X] Venus Facilities (12 Pathfinder days)
--[X] Venus Research Station 0/20 +1 station part 5C 0IP
-[X] Assembly
--[X] Craterscope Imaging Sensor 0/120 +46 IP
-[X] Development 6/6 +5 Craterscope dice 124C 27 IP
--[X] G-Drive Improvement Program 114/400 1 die 15C 10 IP (1/3.5 median)
--[X] Ore Electrolysis Smelter Development 0/200 2 dice 4C 8 IP 19%
--[X] Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization 0/400 2 dice 2C (2/5 median)
--[X] Tick Tank Dig Experiments 102/150 1 die 3C 4 IP 83%
--[X] Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer Development 89/200 1 die 20C 1 IP 20%
--[X] Craterscope Asteroid Belt Detector 0/200 2 dice 40C 2 IP 19%
--[X] Craterscope Tiberium Detector 0/125 1 die 20C 1 IP 6%
--[X] Craterscope Moon Detector 0/125 1 die 20C 1 IP 6%
-[X] Mission Planning 4/4 dice
--[X] Mission: Orbital Scan Uranus 1 die autosuccess
--[X] Mission: Orbital Scan Titan 1 die autosuccess
--[X] Voyager Visitation 131/150 1 die 87%
--[X] Mission: Research Base Mercury 124/150 1 die 80%
-[X] Missions:
--[X] Mars particle collection mission 3/6 attempts 60 Pathfinder Days DC80, 75, 70 (59.7% at least one roll succeeds.)
- Derpmind
- Rakuhn
- BOTcommander
- Phalfpipe
- tenchifew
- F0lkL0re
- Dmol8
- StarJaunter
4 people have voted
[X] Plan CraterMarsscopebase
-[X] Isolinear Computing Center (Phase 2) 0/200 4 dice 52% 100C
-[X] Enterprise Orbital Assembler (Phase 2 of 4)(Updated) (65/80 IP) 15IP
-[X] Craterscope Structure (Phase 1) 30 Structure Parts: 120C, 120 IP
-[X] Initial Martian SCED Research Base (Northern polar region) 8 Facilities: 56C 40IP, -1 Astronaut Team
-[X] Venus Research Station 2 station parts: 10C 10IP(10IP waived)
-[X] G-Drive Improvement Program 114/400 1 die 15C 10IP
-[X] Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization 0/400 4 dice 4C 9%
-[X] Tick Tank Dig Experiments 102/150 1 die 3C 4 IP 83%
-[X] Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer Development 89/200 1 die 20% 20C 1 IP
-[X] Mission: Orbital Scan Uranus 1 die autosuccess
-[X] Mission: Orbital Scan Titan 1 die autosuccess
-[X] Voyager Visitation 131/150 1 die 87%
-[X] Mission: Research Base Mercury 124/150 1 die 80%
-[X]Mars particle collection mission 2/6 attempts 53 Pathfinder Days DC80, 75

Simon_Jester · Jul 28, 2022

Dmol8 said:
- Edit 3: You've repeatedly made the argument that we need those Capital Goods to be able to:

So if the word freedom is confusing you let me phrase this another way: What bets are you hedging by not using the Capital Goods now? Because from my point of view we should set our harvesting goals for Q1 now and keep to them. There is no reason to wait for another turn.

Well, my own harvesting goals are predicated on the observation that you're making very strong assumptions about how vein mining works, and that you will be able to pursue Red Zone mining operations without bad consequences starting immediately in 2062Q1.

I wish to maintain a reserve of Capital Goods that is large enough to sustain intense vein mining up through at least 2062Q2, because we will need the money and I don't believe we are assured of being able to get enough money through Red Zone activities in that amount of time.

- Removing setbacks refers to lowering the odds of getting Critical Failures. Instead of needing Edit: one NAT 1 we would need two with the 2d50 Die.

So... you're not actually talking about removing setbacks. You're talking about avoiding future setbacks.

I think I was confused because when you said "removing setbacks," I assumed you meant "remove something that already exists," as opposed to "prevent something that hasn't happened yet."

Okay, now I understand. Thank you for clearing that up.

that I'm assuming there are not that many Stages of Vein Mining and that I think we won't be able to do more than 10 Stages of that Action before it is exhausted.

Edit 2: So no it's not Casey at the Bat because I'm not throwing away actions. I'm expecting them not to be there and planning ahead accordingly.

You are building these expectations entirely around predictions you have made and, so far as I know, not checked with anyone else. I would argue that it is reckless to expend resources that are difficult or impossible to replace in a timely manner, on something that is itself not urgent, in such a way that if one turns out to be wrong, one has screwed oneself over and made everything worse and more difficult.

trooperist · Jul 28, 2022

No eezo collection it seems this turn. Still three more attempts left.

sunrise · Jul 28, 2022

Math post:

Ore Electrolysis Test Facility Foundations (Phase 2) 240/85 4 dice
Initial Martian SCED Research Base (Northern polar region) 8/8 Facilities -1 Astronaut Team
Venus Research Station 1/20 +1 station part
Craterscope Imaging Sensor 46/120
G-Drive Improvement Program 198/400
Ore Electrolysis Smelter Development 164/200 2 dice
Atmospheric Containment Shimmer Optimization 147/400 2 dice
Tick Tank Dig Experiments 137/150 1 die
Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer Development 208/200 1 die 20C 1 IP 20%
Craterscope Asteroid Belt Detector 184/200 2 dice 40C 2 IP
Craterscope Tiberium Detector 55/125 1 die 20C 1 IP
Craterscope Moon Detector 110/125 1 die 20C 1 IP
Mission: Orbital Scan Uranus 1 die autosuccess
Mission: Orbital Scan Titan 1 die autosuccess
Voyager Visitation 172/150 1 die
Mission: Research Base Mercury 197/150 1 die
Mars particle collection mission 3/6 attempts 60 Pathfinder Days DC80, 75, 70 = 65,27,10

MightbeaMimic · Jul 28, 2022

I think there won't be a limit on tib mining phases, not like we're likely to run low on underground tiberium

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web

The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web

The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web

The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web

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