Or at best, her territory underwent barely-linear growth, as if GDI wasn't distracted with a bunch of fights and Nod hadn't gotten hands on nice Tiberium controlling tech.
Well hell, if Yao could've spent that time building a Yellow Zone inhibitor or something, I'm pissed at her. :p

Heavy Industry +29 (4 dice) 75R
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4)(Progress 3/550: 20 resources per die) 1D
-[] Advanced Alloys Development (Tech)(Progress 0/120: 15 resources per die) 1D
-[] Microfusion Cell Development (Tech)(Progress 0/60: 20 resources per die) 1D
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) (Updated)(Progress 236/300: 20 resources per Die) (+16 Energy) (-2 Labor) 1D
Remember that the drawback of one die on CCF is that you don't have a guarantee of getting the Energy from the plants this turn. Is that a problem for you if likely projects complete? What about unlikely ones?

Agriculture +24 (4 dice, 1FD) 80R
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2)(Progress 65/240: 15 resources per die) (+4 Food, +4 Consumer goods, -2 Energy) 2D
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 4) (Updated)(Progress 134/200: 10 resources per die) (+2 Food in Reserve, -3 Food) 1D
-[] Tarberry Development (Tech)(Progress 0/40: 20 resources per die) 1D
-[] Poulticeplant Development (Tech)(Progress 0/50: 20 resources per die) 1FD
If you want to finish the granaries, one die is not enough. A low roll on that one die, and we miss the Plan target.

Tiberium +39 (7 dice) 140R
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development (Tech)(Progress 0/160: 20 resources per die) 2D
-[] Venusian Tiberium Studies (New)(Progress 95/120: 25 resources per die) 1D
-[] Visceroid Research Programs (Tech)(Progress 0/120: 15 resources per die) (-10 Political Support) 1D
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) (Updated)(Progress 41/140: 20 resources per die) (-5 Political Support) (+10 Energy) 1D
-[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5)(Progress 6/100: 20 resources per die) (+50 processing capacity [-250 during refits]) 1D
-[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Construction(Progress 0/120: 20 resources per die) (+500 Tiberium Reserve) 1D
I figured you'd be putting two dice on liquid tiberium power given that you only have one on fusion. Do you have any surefire Energy sources?

Orbital +26 (6 dice) 120R
-[] Conestoga Class Development (Platform)(Progress 0/60: 30 resources per die) 1D
-[] Leopard II Factory(Progress 0/350: 20 resources per die) (5 point lunar discount, 5 point station discount) 4D
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11)(Progress 32/85: 10 resources per die) (10-15 resources) (Unlocks Orbital Power Stations) 1D
I'm told there's reason to delay work on the Conestogas while SCED does some gravitic drive research. I decided to flip that die over the cleanup, myself.

Military +26 (8 dice, 3FD, ED) 235R
-[] Advanced ECCM Development (Tech)(Progress 0/40: 20 resources per die) 1FD
-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4)(Progress 36/220: 20 resources per die) (Station) (High Priority) 3D
Three dice gives us a slim risk of project failure. I don't recommend it.

-[] Sparkle Shield Module (Tech)(Progress 0/120: 30 resources per die) 1FD
By the way, there's a specific reason I put two dice on this. It's because I want it for the second-generation fusion reactors, which I plan to develop soon. But it's going to be very hard to fund a second die on this if we need it (as is likely) in 2062Q1.
 
This is the core proposition of what I'm tentatively calling "Plan Saving Dosh" which is focused around saving a bigger nest-egg for next plan. It's more focused on cheap things than on anything else, but not *super* cheap things, it still does a bunch of 20 R/die projects and mostly focuses on 15 R/die as it's core. I just throw free dice after free dice at blue zone aquaponics for no reason other than 'lol, 60R', hell I could do W-Kudzu for the same price. The upshot of this is how astonishingly cheap we can get a turn this late in a plan without any real cutbacks, giving us 930/1155 or so resources spent, giving us a 235-355 nest-egg for next plan's start.

-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 4) 1/600 1 die 15R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 273/300 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) 82/160 1 die 10R 70%
-[] Urban Metros (Phase 4) 0/150 2 dice 30R 76%

-[] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 1 die 15R 30%
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 1 die 20R 81%
-[] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 2 dice 40R 50%
-[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 0/120 1 die 20R 30%

-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 1 die 20R
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 2 dice 60R 79%
-[] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 1 die 10R 52%

-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 5+6+7?) 18/420 6 dice 60R 80%
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 2 dice 30R 40%
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 4) 134/200 2 dice 20R 100%

-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 5/195 1 die 20R
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) 41/140 1 die 20R 56%
-[] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 2 dice 30R 99%
-[] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 1 die 25R 100%
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development 0/160 2 dice 40R 85%

-[] Conestoga Class Development 0/60 1 die 30R 87%
-[] Leopard II Factory 0/350 5 dice 100R 77%

-[] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 1 die 25R 100%
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 die 15R 88%
-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 2 dice 50R 42%
-[] Ocular Implant Development 83/120 1 die 20R 100%

-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 3 dice 60R 93%
-[] Zone Lancer Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] OSRCT Station (Phase 4) 319/395 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 1 die+Erewhon 40R 99?%
-[] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 1 die 30R 27%
 
Last edited:
A plan that does slightly more developing Simon's

[] Plan
-[]Infrastructure 5/5 160R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 1 die 20R 100%
(Supports Green Zone Intensification)
(Progress 273/300: 20 resources per die) (+4 Housing) (-1 Green Zone Water)
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 4 dice + 2 free dice + 1 HI die 140R 71%
(Progress 3/550: 20 resources per die) (+2 Housing, -4 Labor, -2 Logistics, -4 Energy) (+280 Tiberium Processing Capacity, +8 Consumer Goods, +6 Capital Goods)
-[]Heavy Industry 4/4 110R
-[] Advanced Alloys Development 1 die + 1 admin die 30R 72%
(Progress 0/120: 15 resources per die)
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 2 dice 40R 100%
(Progress 236/300: 20 resources per Die) (+16 Energy) (-2 Labor)
-[] Low Velocity Particle Applicator Development 1 free die + 1 Erewhon die 40R 72%
(Progress 0/120: 20 resources per die)
-[] Chicago Planned City 1 die
-[]Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 100R
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 3 dice 90R 98%
(Progress 251/380: 30 resources per die) (+2 Capital Goods, +4 Energy) (-1 Logistics)
-[] Civilian Drone Factories 1 die 10R 52%
(Progress 292/380: 10 resources per die) (+2 Logistics, +1 Health, +4 Consumer Goods) (-2 Energy)
-[]Agriculture 4/4 65R
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 3 dice 45R 89%
(Progress 65/240: 15 resources per die) (+4 Food, +4 Consumer goods, -2 Energy)
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 3) 1 die + 1 free die 20R 99%
(Progress 134/200: 10 resources per die) (+2 Food in Reserve, -3 Food)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 140R
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) 2 dice 40R 99%
(Progress 41/140: 20 resources per die) (-5 Political Support) (+10 Energy)
-[] Visceroid Research Programs 2 dice 30R 99%
(Progress 0/120: 15 resources per die) (-10 Political Support)
-[] Venusian Tiberium Studies 1 die 25R 100%
(Progress 95/120: 25 resources per die)
-[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 1 die 20R 61%
(Progress 6/100: 20 resources per die) (+50 processing capacity [-250 during refits])
-[] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1) 1 die 25R 0%
(Progress 0/350: 25 resources per die) (+10 Energy)
-[]Orbital /6 100R
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 2 dice 20R 100%
( Stage 12 76%)
(Progress 32/85: 10 resources per die) (10-15 resources) (Unlocks Orbital Power Stations)
-[] Leopard II Factory 4 dice 80R 32%
(Progress 0/350: 20 resources per die) (5 point lunar discount, 5 point station discount)
-[]Services /5 100R
-[] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 1 die 25R 100%
(Progress 77/120: 25 resources per die) (-5 Political Support)
-[] Hallucinogen Development 2 die 30R 100%
(Progress 0/60: 15 resources per die)
-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 1 die 25R 0%
(Progress 121/300: 25 resources per die) (+4 Health) (-1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods, -1 Labor)
-[] Ocular Implant Development 1 die 20R 100%
(Progress 83/120: 20 resources per die)
-[]Military /8 250R
-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 3 dice 60R 93%
(Progress 36/220: 20 resources per die) (Station) (High Priority)
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 4) 2 dice 40R 99%
(Progress 319/395: 20 resources per die)
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1)
--[] London 2 dice 40R 100%
(Progress 121/190: 20 resources per die) (-2 Labor, -3 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (High Priority)
--[] Seattle 1 die 20R 0%
(Progress 0/300: 20 resources per die) (-6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 1 die 30R 62%
(Progress 0/80: 30 resources per die)
-[] Sparkle Shield Module 2 free dice 60R 91%
(Progress 0/120: 30 resources per die)
-[]Bureaucracy /4
-[] Administrative Assistance (Advanced Alloys Development) 2 dice
(Spend 2 Bureaucracy dice for 1 operations die, that die is rolled without bonuses)
-[] Banking Reforms 1 die 100R in reserve auto
(Must maintain 100 resources in reserve.)
-[]Free Dice 7/7
-[] 2 in Infrastructure
-[] 1 in Heavy Industry
-[] 1 in Agriculture
-[] 3 in Military
-[]Resources Income 1025/1155 Reserve 0/0
 
This is the core proposition of what I'm tentatively calling "Plan Saving Dosh" which is focused around saving a bigger nest-egg for next plan. It's more focused on cheap things than on anything else, but not *super* cheap things, it still does a bunch of 20 R/die projects and mostly focuses on 15 R/die as it's core. I just throw free dice after free dice at blue zone aquaponics for no reason other than 'lol, 60R', hell I could do W-Kudzu for the same price. The upshot of this is how astonishingly cheap we can get a turn this late in a plan without any real cutbacks, giving us 930/1155 or so resources spent, giving us a 235-355 nest-egg for next plan's start.
Honestly the best way to save a big Reserve for next turn is to not activate all our dice. Use free dice for a bunch of Security Reviews, maybe. That said, we do have some 10R/die projects you could do, too. *cough* Kudzu *cough*
 
I'm not happy with three-die ASAT plans, because I want to be confident of finishing and get a little rollover out of it even on relatively unlucky dice.

Honestly the best way to save a big Reserve for next turn is to not activate all our dice. Use free dice for a bunch of Security Reviews, maybe. That said, we do have some 10R/die projects you could do, too. *cough* Kudzu *cough*
The problem is that this rapidly becomes a way of moving the problem instead of solving the problem.

If the price of activating a Light Industry die in 2062Q1 is to not activate it now, have we really gained anything?

We have a reasonable selection of projects that we should do for various good reasons. There are more than enough of these to justify activating all our dice. We're not really saving anything by leaving dice fallow this turn for the sake of activating them next turn.

Similar arguments apply to Bureaucracy dice and security reviews.
 
I don't think we've got anything to be gained by doing cheap projects now to save money. That just means that we've used up the cheap options before we are short on funds later on. Or we are doing the cheap projects now and the expensive projects later, instead of the expensive projects now and the cheap projects later.
After X turns, we'll have still spent the same amount of R on Y projects. Except that the higher impact expensive projects didn't get to deliver impact during that time we had them delayed.
 
At some point, I want to sit down and calculate what we expect to spend in Q1 on Vein Mining and how much income we can guess we'll get. But as a quick calculation, the maximum amount of dice we can spend is 17 dice at 20R/die. So 340R...

The main reason I want to save money is so we can take the smallest cut of income in Reallocation to buff the rest of GDI as much as we can. That requires us actually, like, budgeting stuff a few turns ahead of time. Not just doing whatever and hoping we'll be able to continue like normal in Q1. (But it also takes doing the work to calc that out, and I haven't had the time and attention for that recently. *shrug*)
 
Can't we just do voluntary reallocation later after mashing the income button with our greater start-up funds? It's good that we have the option of handing them a higher percentage to start, but if we're still looking at the best options for bootstrapping our budget as potentially having too large a sticker price unless we do forced cutbacks this turn, then maybe we should be taking that large cut during realloc after all.

For instance, in q1 what's it take to put all tib and free dice on red zone offensives, and then all mil dice on red zone marvs? Can we do it without slacking off on say, columbia?
 
Last edited:
Speaking of Yao, though I normally don't actually suggest anything in this thread, my current long shot proposal is building a MARV Hub at RZ-4E in Hong Kong. Sure, it'll probably have to wait until Karachi actually happens, and after all of our Navy problems are more or less sorted out (as they are currently in the process of being so) as a prerequisite of that, and after the more tactically and strategically sound suggestions of MARV hubs in RZ-1 or RZ-3 to secure the Med and attempt to reopen Suez, or to cement GDI's hold on Eastern Australia. Also would probably need the cooperation of (or a lot more naval capacity to hold off) Bintang in order to pull off.

Still, would get us a foothold into southern China, and open up some more breathing room from the Red Zone in that area like we've done in northern South America and possibly incentivize Yao to do the same? She doesn't seem to be aggressing against us, and this isn't as threatening to her as either expanding out of the Korean peninsula from the Dandong area into Manchuria and the northeastern China plain would, to say nothing of dropping a far more hostile to her MARV hub at Qingdao in Shandong would be.

It's just something I've been throwing around in the back of my head for a couple of updates. It absolutely has nothing to do with the fact that my ancestors are from that area of the world, of course not.
 
Last edited:
@Lightwhispers A few errors I spotted in your Plan: Since you're not using an Outside Dev Dice, the die on Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer should only cost 10C, not 20C. Voyager Visitation is at 131/150, not 102, and so one die on it is 87% likely to complete. (My fault; outdated Array.) And you're paying the Pathfinder days cost for going to Mars twice; we only have to pay it once per turn, meaning you have 13 more Pathfinder Days to work with.
Correct about Voyager - but I am using 1 Outside Development die, so that one is costed correctly. And the reason I am presuming that 2 trips to Mars are needed comes from the Mars Pathfinder Survey, which also takes 20 days per survey, and requires a trip per 2 activations of that mission.
Hm. @sunrise - is that accurate, or do I have 13 more Pathfinder days to play with and try to find something to do with them?
 
For instance, in q1 what's it take to put all tib and free dice on red zone offensives, and then all mil dice on red zone marvs?
Decided to try answering my own question.
aiight, for all our free and tib dice and 350r, we can have a 57% chance of completing all phases of red zone offensives
-[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1+2+3+4+5) 0/1250 12 dice 300R 5%, 13 dice 325R 25%, 14 dice 350R 57%
And then for all 8 of our mil dice and another 160r, we get a 30% chance of completing both australian RZ marvs:
-[] Reclamator Hubs x2 0/670 7 dice 140R 6%, 8 dice 160R 30%
Which would in total take 510r, and provide between (25 or 50) + (estimated 100 or 125), and between 14 and 19 red zone abatement and between 9 and 12 energy.
An optimistic nest egg of 300 + 30% allocation would provide us 700r to play with q1, which would then leave... only 190r to play with for every other department, lol. Even with security review spam I think we'd fall short
The answer is that it's a terrible idea even with maximum plausible money, and that maybe we should instead try to keep a reserve going into q2 to jump on super glacier mines. Maybe. Possibly. Somehow.

sigh

Or we just do vein mines I guess. :(
 
I mean the main issue is that ZOCOM can handle one, maybe two phases of red zone stuff before just running out of guys. The guys wearing the suits made in New York and London will still be in training.

So either your guys will just refuse to keep going after a few phases of Red Zone stuff or you are using under trained or under equipped troops to handle it and taking losses.
 
How hard is Nod likely to be actually pressing our Zone Troopers when it comes to Red Zone ops, anyway? Obviously we can't make long-term unsustainable commitments, but if we're only worried about a short time while new formations train up in their power armor, after which point our window of vulnerability closes....?
 
That's kinda an open question, it took Stahl the better part of the year to muster the forces to attack our MARV Hub. Now glacier mines are going to be less fortified- but the difficulties in mobilizing troops to attack or even identifying the target are commensurately much higher. And while there is very much the possibility of them attacking our convoys out of a glacier, those sort of attacks are probably defeated by heavy outriders like Havocs screening the convoy or Auroras' flying rapid response strike missions as much as they are by infantry escorts. And ZOCOM probably has had plenty of time to develop it's vehicle pool when it's its infantry that are being pulled every which way.

Garrisoning the glacier mines and other harvesting operations seems to be the larger problem than protecting supply in and out from these sites. Can NOD identify these sites, ascertain their lack of defenses, and gather forces to strike them while ZOCOM is still coming up to speed? Especially when the Regency War was particularly hard on NOD's elite forces- those best suited to launching a strike into a Red Zone?

I think we have decent odds, but is it a game we feel like trying to play?
 
We can't be sure that all NOD forces were exhausted.
We know that at least one major warlord didn't even participate, and we know that India wasn't even attacked.
There could easily be one warlord that kept forces in reserve to see if we overreach with glacier mining.
 
The main reason I want to save money is so we can take the smallest cut of income in Reallocation to buff the rest of GDI as much as we can.
This is, in my opinion, a fallacy.

If we need to cut back our spending and budget hard to allow that, thus actually finishing less projects that benefit GDI and gaining less new income in the new FYP, than have we actually won anything?
I think the correct question to ask here is not "can we manage with 20%?"
but "What will maximize the budget of GDI as a whole after the next 4 Year plan?"
And if the answer to this question is to have more resources earlier, to be able to afford more expensive projects that will lead to more overall income in the long run, and thus a bigger budget for everyone after the next 4 years, then we should take the bigger budget not because it benefits us, but because it will genuinely benefit GDI as a whole.
 
Last edited:
We can't be sure that all NOD forces were exhausted.
We know that at least one major warlord didn't even participate, and we know that India wasn't even attacked.
There could easily be one warlord that kept forces in reserve to see if we overreach with glacier mining.
But that's where we have to actually start considering where these glacier mines are going to take place, the Red Zone offensive explicitly mentions blazing a trail up the Congo, besides that there's America where NOD's forces have both been badly wrecked and also split into three camps that aren't exactly on great terms with each other.

And that's setting aside all the Red Zones GDI has pretty direct borders with now. Australia, where there's badly weakened and supported NOD resistance. North America, where the warlord we'd be antagonizing most with it is for all intensive purposes on her own (Krukov is nominally her boss- but there's no real way to support her), and the Balkans. Which is probably *the single least inhabited Red Zone on the planet* courtesy of the Temple Prime detonation. Depending on where we try and harvest it might provoke a response from either Kane or Krukov, but this is so close to core BZ territory I'm not even sure that's a bad thing.

I get it, we got punished crossing the Alps- but that's not where we're at anymore. We have a ton of easy access to Red Zones, and the ability to support them with developed regions nearby. We're not crossing deep stretches of hostile or uncontrolled territory, plunging in incredibly difficult terrain, and setting up shop right on a major NOD stronghold's door step. Notably though- upon completion the North Italian glacier mines haven't provoked a response.
 
Last edited:
IIRC, the canon defectors were Gideon, Reynaldo, and Mehretu.

Reynaldo is probably off the table, thanks to his pilgramage at the start of the last war.

At this point, I'd say that the most likely defectors/rebels are Bintang (independent/defects if we bribe her enough), Mehretu (rebels if we push for excommunication/execution), and Gideon (rebels if peace is made).
Reynaldo has been humbled. He was always low on the pecking order of Nod warlords, remaining in power in large part just by surviving in Europe where others did not. He approached Kane with humility, got aid... and then used that aid in keeping with his normal tactics, only to be upbraided by Kane for doing so. He may react rebelliously (since he clearly has enough hate to inflict cruelty on GDI), or he may not. It all depends on whether his obedience or his hatred is stronger.
Reynaldo is probably fully Kane's servant at this point.

Frankly, if feasible I really want Reynaldo's ass on a platter, even just for his knockoff-buzzer attacks by themselves. Both for emotional reasons (What the fuck dude!?!) and for pragmatic ones (peaceful coexistence seems unlikely, from both sides after his actions, and we have to demonstrate seeking some kind of justice or we lose credibility).

Speaking of Yao, though I normally don't actually suggest anything in this thread, my current long shot proposal is building a MARV Hub at RZ-4E in Hong Kong. Sure, it'll probably have to wait until Karachi actually happens, and our Navy problems are more or less sorted out as a prerequisite of that, and after the more tactically sound suggestions of MARV hubs in RZ-1 or RZ-3 to secure the Med. Also would probably need the cooperation of (or a lot more naval capacity to hold off) Bintang in order to pull off.

Still, would get a foothold into southern China, and open up some more breathing room from the Red in that area and possibly incentivize Yao to do the same? She doesn't seem to be aggressing against us, and this isn't as threatening to her as either expanding out of Korea from the Dandong area into Manchuria and the northeastern China plain would, to say nothing of dropping a far more hostile to her MARV hub at Qingdao in Shandong would be.

It's just something I've been throwing around in the back of my head for a couple of updates. It absolutely has nothing to do with the fact that my ancestors are from that area of the world, of course not.

Bintang propably makes this specific location a non-starter, but I like the general idea. If we can get reasonable warlords to let us do abatement in their territory, we absolutely should do that. Maybe if we can convince Yao of the merits of less-threatening projects, such as RZ containment or border offensives?
 
But that's where we have to actually start considering where these glacier mines are going to take place, the Red Zone offensive explicitly mentions blazing a trail up the Congo, besides that there's America where NOD's forces have both been badly wrecked and also split into three camps that aren't exactly on great terms with each other.
The Congo is mentioned on Red Zone Harvesting, but I thought the super glaciers were on Red Zone Border Offensives?

Australia is likely safe, but we'll also be harvesting a long way from any support. So the remoteness cuts both ways there.
North America is quite fractured, but that also means that people are there looking for opportunities to prove themselves. And push deep into the RZ there will be very open to being pincered.
And yeah, Balkans are awkwardness.
Hrm, if we could boost the harvesting from the Himalayan BZ, we could get a back door into the China RZ. Not very useful until we can offload from the Himalayas safely though.
 
The Congo is mentioned on Red Zone Harvesting, but I thought the super glaciers were on Red Zone Border Offensives?

Australia is likely safe, but we'll also be harvesting a long way from any support. So the remoteness cuts both ways there.
North America is quite fractured, but that also means that people are there looking for opportunities to prove themselves. And push deep into the RZ there will be very open to being pincered.
And yeah, Balkans are awkwardness.
Hrm, if we could boost the harvesting from the Himalayan BZ, we could get a back door into the China RZ. Not very useful until we can offload from the Himalayas safely though.
I don't think supporting an Australian glacier from it's blue zone would be that awkward. And if we presume must of Australia's much reduced NOD presence is in the yellow zone there, most of the Red Zone is closer to us than it is to them.
North America could be more difficult than expected, but the same risk of getting pincered means it's harder to coordinate a response and draw assets from everywhere the Warlord's got them to focus on our glacier mine. And given I think the glaciers tend to form around rivers or lakes, the lakes by Winnipeg aren't actually that far from us or deep into exposed Red Zone.
Balkans should be mass graveyard meets alien world, but for all we know getting too close to former Temple Prime in Sarajevo could prompt a response.
 
When it comes to ZOCOM being happy about Red Zone Ops once more, I'm expecting it'll likely be Q3 2062. If we're lucky, it'll be Q2 and we can hammer the RZ Border Offensives in order to get to super glacier mines. If we're unlucky, Q4.

After all, it's not just building the armor, GF has to train troops to use the armor. Then probably deploy units to take over "heavy infantry" jobs from ZOCOM in order to free up ZOCOM for purely RZ work. Once we get more factories going, that'll slowly increase the amount of ZOCOM freed up. I'd half expect that completing Set 1 factories clears ZOCOM of all "heavy infantry" duties globally. Set 2 factories would likely enable GF to start handling shallow Red ops.

--

We've been shying away from Red Zone Harvesting Ops since the next stage is the Congo and that's sitting between two Mehretu YZs. And we're kinda low on convoy escorts. Given someone hijacked a load on tendril harvesters, I think everyone can understand the hesitation on that currently.

RZ Border Offensives would be Eastern Australia, either side of the NA RZ where the GZ is touching, and then Western Europe.
 
[X] Plan Mars + Two Turn Crater Structure + More Reserach

Yeah I'll go with this one. My revised plan for next turn is the next thing I'm working on.
 
North America, where the warlord we'd be antagonizing most with it is for all intensive purposes on her own (Krukov is nominally her boss- but there's no real way to support her)

Wouldn't the warlord most likely to take offense at a Red Zone Border Offensive in North America (where our territory directly borders the Red Zone) be Gideon, and not Majors? In Gideon's case, hasn't he mostly shot his bolt in the Regency War and was further degraded when we responded in kind?

Yeah, don't count a major warlord like him out, but he got pretty wrecked over the course of the last couple of years, and while he definitely has his remaining reserves of elite troops and militia and some WMDs he wouldn't be shy in using if we truly threatened him, I think his ability to respond has been much lessened, especially since we've dealt him any number of blows in his former territories in the Southeast US.

Majors is his former vassal in Canada that now answers to Krukov, and she got into the position by being good at mining. However, her territory only really touches where we border the Red Zone where said offensives would likely be occurring near the southern shore of Lake Superior, whereas we can push much more in areas closer to Gideon's base of operations in the US South and Midwest.

Also nitpick, but the phrase is "all intents and purposes". Irks me when people mangle it.
 
Last edited:
Garrisoning the glacier mines and other harvesting operations seems to be the larger problem than protecting supply in and out from these sites. Can NOD identify these sites, ascertain their lack of defenses, and gather forces to strike them while ZOCOM is still coming up to speed? Especially when the Regency War was particularly hard on NOD's elite forces- those best suited to launching a strike into a Red Zone?

I think we have decent odds, but is it a game we feel like trying to play?
Part of my question is, is Nod even playing? Should we take it as a given that Nod will be harassing our Red Zone operations with the kind of enthusiasm we saw shortly before, or for that matter during, the Regency War, in the aftermath of that war?

Is that a realistic fear, or are we jumping at (literal or metaphorical) shadows here?

We can't be sure that all NOD forces were exhausted.
We know that at least one major warlord didn't even participate, and we know that India wasn't even attacked.
There could easily be one warlord that kept forces in reserve to see if we overreach with glacier mining.
This one warlord, attacking alone after all other warlords have ceased to do so, and after by all appearances Kane just yelled at all his warlords for being idiots about picking stupid fights with GDI for no reason...

Well, I think that one warlord would have to be pretty Giddyboy to launch attacks on GDI Red Zone operations right now.

And we have a Giddyboy, and we know he's not in great shape to press such attacks himself. Sure, he could pull some shit off if he were fighting in the face of zero defenses, if nothing were there to stop him, but there's a difference between "stretched a bit" and "we have nothing between us and the enemy."

The Congo is mentioned on Red Zone Harvesting, but I thought the super glaciers were on Red Zone Border Offensives?
Well, if we can't do border offensives (despite them seeming like the places where our security is best equipped to chase off Nod forces), surely we can do regular harvesting in such a remote area?

Australia is likely safe, but we'll also be harvesting a long way from any support. So the remoteness cuts both ways there.
I think it cuts Nod a lot harder than it cuts us, what with us having conquered the entire East Australian Yellow Zone.

North America is quite fractured, but that also means that people are there looking for opportunities to prove themselves. And push deep into the RZ there will be very open to being pincered.
Context. Majors/Waters (whatever the northern Canadian Nod warlady's name is) doesn't seem very interested in "proving herself" by blowing up our shit. Especially, as alluded to above, after just how incredibly badly that strategy has worked out for her previous boss Gideon, and for Nod's top warlords as a whole, to the point where Kane publicly humiliated them all in front of GDI, and they know GDI knows it. Humiliated them for being a bunch of belligerent morons.

Mondragon is a different matter, but Mondragon suffered some pretty heavy pounding in Steel Vanguard, and the geometry of the battlespace is very favorable to our attempts to keep him at arms' length.

Balkans should be mass graveyard meets alien world, but for all we know getting too close to former Temple Prime in Sarajevo could prompt a response.
I suppose Kane might be a bit sensitive about the Temple Prime Memorial Bomb Crater. In theory.

When it comes to ZOCOM being happy about Red Zone Ops once more, I'm expecting it'll likely be Q3 2062. If we're lucky, it'll be Q2 and we can hammer the RZ Border Offensives in order to get to super glacier mines. If we're unlucky, Q4.

After all, it's not just building the armor, GF has to train troops to use the armor. Then probably deploy units to take over "heavy infantry" jobs from ZOCOM in order to free up ZOCOM for purely RZ work. Once we get more factories going, that'll slowly increase the amount of ZOCOM freed up. I'd half expect that completing Set 1 factories clears ZOCOM of all "heavy infantry" duties globally. Set 2 factories would likely enable GF to start handling shallow Red ops.
The trick is, ZOCOM is tiny compared to even a small fraction of Ground Forces. Even if Set 1's factories only supply 5% of Ground Force, 5% of Ground Force's infantry is probably more actual soldiers than the entirety of ZOCOM.

So in a situation where statistically speaking Nod warlords are weakened, demoralized, and very possibly explicitly leashed by Kane, and where Red Zone attacks are particularly difficult to implement on a large scale even for them, and where we have the assistance of the Forgotten granting us a statistical advantage in ability to see that kind of thing coming, and where ZOCOM knows that within a matter of months or a year at most, Help Is On The Way in the form of very large forces of Ground Force power armor infantry...

ZOCOM may be more willing to stretch itself than it would otherwise.

Sort of like how after all the shit they'd been through in 1917, you really wouldn't think the British or French would be willing to launch further attacks on the Western Front. But then the Americans started showing up in enormous numbers, providing a stream of reinforcements the British and French knew would continue to come right on up through 1919 and on. And then the Germans exhausted themselves with their spring offensive. And suddenly, military operations that would have seemed very ill-advised in January 1918 started seeming like a better idea in June 1918... and they worked, at least by the standards of World War One offensive battles.

We've been shying away from Red Zone Harvesting Ops since the next stage is the Congo and that's sitting between two Mehretu YZs. And we're kinda low on convoy escorts. Given someone hijacked a load on tendril harvesters, I think everyone can understand the hesitation on that currently.
Fair, but we already have cargo ships running down that way anyway; it's the only way to ship anything from GDI's stronghold positions around the North Atlantic to, uh... much of anywhere else. Besides, the Congo isn't close to Mehretu's territory. Crossing hundreds or thousands of kilometers of Red Zone is not something you do easily or lightly.
 
@Lightwhispers A few errors I spotted in your Plan: Since you're not using an Outside Dev Dice, the die on Craterscope Atmospheric Analyzer should only cost 10C, not 20C. Voyager Visitation is at 131/150, not 102, and so one die on it is 87% likely to complete. (My fault; outdated Array.) And you're paying the Pathfinder days cost for going to Mars twice; we only have to pay it once per turn, meaning you have 13 more Pathfinder Days to work with.
@Lightwhispers
I was thinking of adding a limit on how many explorations you could do per trip but with the transfer station available to help and to serve as a place to spend a day away from the rest I decided not to add one.
 
Back
Top